end of the 'Jolly Fisherman' EMR to Skegness; what alternative options could EMR put in place?

[richardderby]

More rubbish from EMR about the wonderful refurbished 170s nothing about cutting the weekend extra services and places like Derby losing the through trains..
'Quote' Metro newspaper

Can a £23,000,000 train upgrade save Britain's 'SkegVegas?'

All aboard the Skeggy train.

metro.co.uk

 

[High Dyke]

it seems that EMR are trying to quietly drop these extra services, hoping no one will notice, as they are short of rolling stock. The Skegness timetable needs a review, the direct (Grantham avoiding) line can take 20+ minutes off the journey, but EMR have favoured sending almost everything via Grantham, Jolly Fisherman excepted...

Even one of those additionals called at Grantham on its outward journey, but neither called on their return trip. EMR prefer to encourage people to use the supplementary buses. However, they extend the journey time.

Remember a few years ago they replaced a timetabled service train with the additionals. This meant skip-stopping stations like Heckington and Wainfleet. Needless to say, that 'experiment' didn't progress.

 

[richardderby]

Even one of those additionals called at Grantham on its outward journey, but neither called on their return trip. EMR prefer to encourage people to use the supplementary buses. However, they extend the journey time.

Remember a few years ago they replaced a timetabled service train with the additionals. This meant skip-stopping stations like Heckington and Wainfleet. Needless to say, that 'experiment' didn't progress.

Yes and they added a Grantham stop to the 1730 from Skeg increasing journey time. It's a shame when they have the direct Grantham avoiding line, which saves time, but make so little use of it..
They should as a minimum retain one of.the jolly fisherman extras..

 

[High Dyke]

Yes and they added a Grantham stop to the 1730 from Skeg increasing journey time. It's a shame when they have the direct Grantham avoiding line, which saves time, but make so little use of it..
They should as a minimum retain one of.the jolly fisherman extras..

I agree. However, those passengers from Grantham towards Skegness are being penalised by the TOC. It isn't an easy situation to resolve.

 

[richardderby]

I agree. However, those passengers from Grantham towards Skegness are being penalised by the TOC. It isn't an easy situation to resolve.

And there seems little appetite from EMR apart from praising the refurb 170s to the media, they haven't mentioned the cuts to service the are planning

 

[tram21]

they haven't mentioned the cuts to service the are planning

What cuts are being planned? I'm aware of the new Dec timetable but there's no major service cuts there- a couple of through services cut but nothing major iirc?

 

[Zomboid]

They're proposing to not run additional trains that aren't in the regular timetable.
Which isn't really a "cut" as most would understand it.

 

[richardderby]

They're proposing to not run additional trains that aren't in the regular timetable.
Which isn't really a "cut" as most would understand it.

It is a cut if you travel to or from Derby, which will lose direct train services

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2025 ==

I'm sure these Saturday extras have run since at least the 80s, and the line is getting busy again, cuts apparently due to lack of rolling stock availability and crew..

 

[High Dyke]

I'm sure these Saturday extras have run since at least the 80s, and the line is getting busy again, cuts apparently due to lack of rolling stock availability and crew..

At least. A regular move for us was the Cambridge - Skegness through train, on a Sunday. Again, like the Saturday additionals has fell by the wayside. Partly due to the fragmented system.

Equally, and now off-lease are the 156's sat festering at Ely. A victim of DfT politics.

 

[70014IronDuke]

It is a cut if you travel to or from Derby, which will lose direct train services

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2025 ==

I'm sure these Saturday extras have run since at least the 80s, and the line is getting busy again, cuts apparently due to lack of rolling stock availability and crew..

Well, we had a regular through summer working from Derby on a daily basis on weekdays back in the early 70s which avoided Grantham. It used to be 2 x Cl 20s with maroon Mk1s, which were stabled at Burton in the winter months. I'd guess that used to run in the 60s too.

 

[richardderby]

Well, we had a regular through summer working from Derby on a daily basis on weekdays back in the early 70s which avoided Grantham. It used to be 2 x Cl 20s with maroon Mk1s, which were stabled at Burton in the winter months. I'd guess that used to run in the 60s too.

That sounds wonderful, I remember going on the class 20s which I believe we're still running to Skeg in the late 80s..

 

[70014IronDuke]

That sounds wonderful, I remember going on the class 20s which I believe we're still running to Skeg in the late 80s..

Well, I only did it once, but it was on the footplate! Can't remember much about the trip, to be honest, except I knew I took special notice of Lincoln - but even that is muddled 50+ years later!

 

[DDB]

I notice much of the visiting Skegness stories are very much about the past. I wonder how much capacity is actually needed these days? The public journey data is averaged over the year so isn't that useful but does show Nottingham-Skeg is 5 times more popular than Derby-Skeg.
The proof of whether the "Jolly Fisherman" was actually vital will come one way or another this summer season.

 

[liamf656]

The public journey data is averaged over the year so isn't that useful but does show Nottingham-Skeg is 5 times more popular than Derby-Skeg.

In my opinion it was just convenient that the HSTs/180s were based at Derby anyway

 

[Russel]

In my opinion it was just convenient that the HSTs/180s were based at Derby anyway

You may have a point here.

I did the HST's a couple of times before Covid, from Derby and it never really got busy until Nottingham.

 

[yorksrob]

You may have a point here.

I did the HST's a couple of times before Covid, from Derby and it never really got busy until Nottingham.

Presumably that would mean that the extra capacity from Birmingham was still needed.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Presumably that would mean that the extra capacity from Birmingham was still needed.

They never ran from Birmingham. The HST from Derby was quite early leaving before 0800, and in many respects was more to get people from Skegness to Nottingham. The second set was more heavily loaded from Nottingham to Skegness as it left approx 0940, but usually only half full returning, which is still around 250 passengers so would comfortably fill a 5 car 170. I have photos of the TGS and adjoining power car full to head height with luggage.

 

[richardderby]

So if they can comfortably fill a five car 170, the logic behind the withdrawal is questionable.. they should retain the busier timetabled train at least..

 

[liamf656]

So if they can comfortably fill a five car 170, the logic behind the withdrawal is questionable.. they should retain the busier timetabled train at least..

How are you going to resource that though? The only way you'll find rolling stock for two extra round trips is if you pinch them from another service that equally needs them. Strengthening two diagrams in the timetable was the best idea in these circumstances imo

 

[yorksrob]

They never ran from Birmingham. The HST from Derby was quite early leaving before 0800, and in many respects was more to get people from Skegness to Nottingham. The second set was more heavily loaded from Nottingham to Skegness as it left approx 0940, but usually only half full returning, which is still around 250 passengers so would comfortably fill a 5 car 170. I have photos of the TGS and adjoining power car full to head height with luggage.

Oops, meant to say Nottingham - posted pre-caffiene.

 

[bunnahabhain]

So if they can comfortably fill a five car 170, the logic behind the withdrawal is questionable.. they should retain the busier timetabled train at least..

Because they aren't being withdrawn due to low passenger numbers, they are being withdrawn due to lack of working rolling stock. If the rolling stock were available I'm sure they would still be running.

 

[CM Punk]

I'd love to see a Lincoln-Skegness service, would take some of the pressure off Nottingham certainly.

 

[richardderby]

I'd love to see a Lincoln-Skegness service, would take some of the pressure off Nottingham certainly.

well if there is not enough rolling stock for the current service, that is never going to happen, and I think would require a reversal at Sleaford. Peterborough would be good as well.

 

[class26]

well if there is not enough rolling stock for the current service, that is never going to happen, and I think would require a reversal at Sleaford. Peterborough would be good as well.

Lincoln to Skegness does NOT require a reversal at Sleaford

 

[richardderby]

ah okay, looking at this map 'Quote WIkipedia' it is unclear.. but looks like a loop is in place...

 

[class26]

Lincoln to Skegness would go via Sleaford station and the loop therefore NO reversal.
Peterborough to Skegness MUST reverse at Sleaford station, to go via the loop only permits a north direction (ie to Lincoln)

 

[bunnahabhain]

Lincoln top Skegness would go via Sleaford station and the loop therefore NO reversal.
Peterborough to Skegness MUST reverse at Sleaford station, to go via the loop only permits a north direction (ie to Lincoln)

Lincoln to Skegness and Peterborough would take the same route as far as Sleaford Station, taking the single track chord from Sleaford North to Sleaford West Junction. At Sleaford East Junction the Skegness train would continue straight onwards and the Peterborough train would turn off to rejoin the route to Peterborough. There is no reversal for either train. The "loop" as you call it is just two single track chords which permit access from the Joint Line to Sleaford Station.

 

[class26]

Lincoln to Skegness and Peterborough would take the same route as far as Sleaford Station, taking the single track chord from Sleaford North to Sleaford West Junction. At Sleaford East Junction the Skegness train would continue straight onwards and the Peterborough train would turn off to rejoin the route to Peterborough. There is no reversal for either train. The "loop" as you call it is just two single track chords which permit access from the Joint Line to Sleaford Station.

As I live just outside Sleaford I am very aware of the track layout.
Maybe I misread the post but I was assuming it was referring to Lincoln to Skegness and Peterborough to Skegness. in which case reversal at Sleaford is necessary

 

[Silver Cobra]

Looking at RTT, it appears that EMR's solution for an enhanced service to and from Skegness this year is to run buses between Nottingham and Skegness alongside the train service, with the only additional stop for the buses being at Grantham. Buses are listed on Mondays, Fridays and Saturdays from 19th July onwards.

Here's an example using Saturday 26th July. Notice all the additional buses listed alongside the trains:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Grantham all day on 26/07/2025

Train information at Grantham all day on 26/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:J41425/2025-07-26/detailed

I guess it makes sense to only run the buses on these three days each week, as Mondays, Fridays and Saturdays are traditionally the busiest days for travel to and from seaside towns (many caravan parks offer holidays that start or end on these days).

 

[yorksrob]

Looking at RTT, it appears that EMR's solution for an enhanced service to and from Skegness this year is to run buses between Nottingham and Skegness alongside the train service, with the only additional stop for the buses being at Grantham. Buses are listed on Mondays, Fridays and Saturdays from 19th July onwards.

Here's an example using Saturday 26th July. Notice all the additional buses listed alongside the trains:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Grantham all day on 26/07/2025

Train information at Grantham all day on 26/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:J41425/2025-07-26/detailed

I guess it makes sense to only run the buses on these three days each week, as Mondays, Fridays and Saturdays are traditionally the busiest days for travel to and from seaside towns (many caravan parks offer holidays that start or end on these days).

Oh dear could they not hire in a train from somewhere ?