Esk Valley Line enhanced services / Whitby Potash Mine

[30907]

Yes, in my experience there have been a few changing from TPE to Whitby as well.

I believe any permitted route tickets are allowed via Darlington but they tend to be extortionately priced.

Sorry, didnt realise there was such a price differential (especially for day returns) - does change the situation somewhat. Trouble is, some of us remember when that was effectively the only route.

I have to say the Not Darlington day return is excellent value - has to be, to compete with Coastliner I imagine.

 

[yorksrob]

Sorry, didnt realise there was such a price differential (especially for day returns) - does change the situation somewhat. Trouble is, some of us remember when that was effectively the only route.

I have to say the Not Darlington day return is excellent value - has to be, to compete with Coastliner I imagine.

Yes, I suppose if route Darlington was a bit more reasonable, it might provide an alternative option from the South. I doubt they'll change it though.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

They absolutely do - but it's about improving connections which benefit the most people and also allow for a timetable which handles other conflicting requirements.

Whitby is not a 'key' destination - and it's unlikely TPE will be changing their timetable for the 2 or 3 people who might want that connection.

2 or 3 people????? Based on my experience you can multiply that by ten!

 

[mervyn72]

In the new timetable there are some extensions to the Nunthorpe terminators to Danby and Battersby. RTT shows these services stopping at Kildale, Commondale etc but not booked passenger stops. Does anyone know if this is accurate or will they be calling?

 

[30907]

As they are booked 3 minutes faster than standard and no dwell time, could be non stop or could be request (a la Cumbrian Coast)?

 

[70014IronDuke]

Nowt to do with the potash mine (as far as I know) but - as has been mentioned somewhere - the line will get a somewhat enhanced service from May 20.

I think some trains will start or end their journies beyond Middlesbrough, but specifically, new services are:
2N20 10.57 Hexham to Danby arr 13.43 (Dep Middlesbrough 12.55)
Returns as 2W39 13.50 Danby to Hexham (arr MBR 14.36)
&
2N34 - 14.57 Hexham to Battersby arr 17.30 (Dep MBR 17.00)
2W55 - 17.45 Battersby to Metrocentre (arr MBR 18.29).

Hardly revolutionary, but it is something, and might help boost traffic - especially the extra 17.00 train ex MBR, which offers Great Ayton commuters in Boro' a better choice to get home. (Still no morning commuter-time train, however.)
Are these the result of Northern's entrepreneurial spirit, or has the local TPE been playing a role in these changes, anyone know?

 

[yorksrob]

2 or 3 people????? Based on my experience you can multiply that by ten!

As an update, I was on a service to Middlesbrough on my way to Whitby a few weeks ago (still winter) when we were unexpectedly diverted to Darlington mid-way. After much waiting around and trying to get information, those of us left who were going to Whitby were put on the next pacer to Middlesbrough where Northern had arranged for a minibus to get us there (our connection having long gone).

All nineteen seats in the minibus were taken. If TPE don't regard this as a key connection, they certainly ought to.

Well done to the railway planners, as we only arrived there half an hour late in the end.

 

[70014IronDuke]

As an update, I was on a service to Middlesbrough on my way to Whitby a few weeks ago (still winter) when we were unexpectedly diverted to Darlington mid-way. After much waiting around and trying to get information, those of us left who were going to Whitby were put on the next pacer to Middlesbrough where Northern had arranged for a minibus to get us there (our connection having long gone).

All nineteen seats in the minibus were taken. If TPE don't regard this as a key connection, they certainly ought to.

Well done to the railway planners, as we only arrived there half an hour late in the end.

As it was still winter, you are implying the 19 passengers to Whitby - or most of them - were not seasonal tourist passengers, I presume? Were all the connecting pax going on all the way to Whitby, or did some bale out en route?

 

[yorksrob]

As it was still winter, you are implying the 19 passengers to Whitby - or most of them - were not seasonal tourist passengers, I presume? Were all the connecting pax going on all the way to Whitby, or did some bale out en route?

I'm implying that even out of season, there are still plenty of passengers changing at Middlesbrough from the South for the Whitby line.

One person bailed at Castleton. The rest were for Whitby.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I'm implying that even out of season, there are still plenty of passengers changing at Middlesbrough from the South for the Whitby line.

One person bailed at Castleton. The rest were for Whitby.

So you were connecting into the 10.28 ex-Middlebrough, were you? (This becomes 10.20 from 21 May - still doable?)

I'd agree with you, 19 pax continuing on from the south in winter (or even in summer) is a very impressive number - unless there was some special event on in Whitby - which doesn't sound likely in winter? Was it a Saturday or weekday?

 

[yorksrob]

So you were connecting into the 10.28 ex-Middlebrough, were you? (This becomes 10.20 from 21 May - still doable?)

I'd agree with you, 19 pax continuing on from the south in winter (or even in summer) is a very impressive number - unless there was some special event on in Whitby - which doesn't sound likely in winter? Was it a Saturday or weekday?

It was a Saturday, but there were no special events that I know of.

It looks as though the York to Middlesbrough has got a lot earlier. Fortunately, I still seem to have a connection but with a longer wait at Middlesbrough. Shame the excellent buffet there seems to have closed

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The Danby train appears to run non-stop after Nunthorpe - except at Battersby to reverse. I suspect it exists merely to get the train out of the way at Nunthorpe.

 

[yorksrob]

Seems like a bit of a lost opportunity to improve the service more generally to me, unfortunately.

It might have been more useful to me if the later new service had extended a bit further than Battersby. This could have allowed a bit of an explore of some Esk valley locations. Bit sadly even that doesn't seem to be available.

No use to me at all.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Seems like a bit of a lost opportunity to improve the service more generally to me, unfortunately.

Indeed.

Last year I stayed at the Premier Inn near to James Cook Hospital, so the train was the much easier choice into the moors - I even managed a seat on each occasion, albeit with couples/groups preferring to stand together. Now there is a Premier Inn near to Middlesbrough Station / centre, so the bus becomes the much better option, except for the most remote rural stations. Greater choice of outward morning departure - every 30 minutes instead of hanging around until 1030ish. Less hanging around for the one train home at tea-time.

 

[timj]

The proposed timetable for May 2018 sees what I would call a pretty major timetable change for the Whitby Branch. The early morning Whitby to Middlesbrough services I'm sure is due to commence in December 2019 at the latest.

May 2018 Proposals:
Monday To Fridays

Middlesbrough 0711 0957* 1428 1800*
Whitby 0836 1127 1555 1930

Whitby 0858 1204 1601 2002
Middlesbrough 1030* 1333* 1733* 2131*

Saturdays

Middlesbrough 0842% 1057* 1357* 1700*
Whitby 1011 1227 1530 1833

Whitby 1019 1259 1601 1905
Middlesbrough 1158 1428* 1733* 2033*

* To From Carlisle/Metrocentre/Hexham
% From Darlington

Be interesting to see how the trains that run from Carlisle to Whitby perform and keep to time. The Whitby branch between Grosmont & Whitby is pretty full so a small delay on a service coming from miles away will have a knock on effect to everything.

what change?!! thought it was already 4 trains per day

 

[70014IronDuke]

An 0730 into Middlesbrough could be operated with existing resources IIRC but thats too early for commuting. TBH I'm still not convinced a commuter service will be worth it, even if a sensible arrival time can be managed. ...

To get a sensible commuting arrival in Middlesbrough, you really need to re-install a loop between Battersby and Glaisdale - presumably at Castleton Moor, in order to be able to pass the school train from Boro. Given costs of doing anything these days, can anyone see that happening? Either that, or you run a second second train out in the morning only as far as Batttersby, returning 08.00-ish.

Meanwhile, Pacer freaks eat your hearts out: the new Sunday timetable has a 10.54 ex Carlisle - Whitby arr 15.20.

That's 4 hours 26 minutes. And if you are a glutton for punishment, you have just enough time for an ice cream and cuppa and you can depart at 15.50, Carlisle arr 20.27 - that's 4 hours 37 minutes! Ha!

 

[185143]

With regards to the 10:28, I've been on that service connecting from the TPE-it's a good connection and I was far from alone in making it.

I've also been on the 10:28 and been told that it was being held as the TPE was late, and another time I was on a late running pacer from Darlo, I told the guard I was after the Whitby connection and was assured I couldn't miss it-as the driver was travelling pass on the pacer I was on from Darlo.

 

[70014IronDuke]

what change?!! thought it was already 4 trains per day

It is. The changes next month are helpful, but nothing dramatic.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

To get a sensible commuting arrival in Middlesbrough, you really need to re-install a loop between Battersby and Glaisdale - presumably at Castleton Moor, in order to be able to pass the school train from Boro. Given costs of doing anything these days, can anyone see that happening? Either that, or you run a second second train out in the morning only as far as Batttersby, returning 08.00-ish.

On the old/current timetable, and current infrastructure, peak-hour arrivals into Middlesbrough would be possible at 0731 (cross Nunthorpe), or 0756 (cross Battersby), or 0909 (cross Glaisdale - late at Middlesbrough but pre 0900 at James Cook). Alternatively the early outward run required to do any of the three previous options could take the 'school unit' to Whitby and back, depositing it on its way back from Whitby at Battersby to take up service. That would depend upon where the current school service picks up its passengers - through from Middlesbrough or just Battersby onwards. It would be theoretically possible to send out an eight car set (or base them at Whitby with a new traincrew depot!) and provide the existing school service Battersby to Whitby and provide Middlesbrough arrivals from Whitby at 0731, 0756 and 0909.

The suggestion given previously by a poster was that the new commuter service will be the 0731 option with an early run out from Middlesbrough, ECS or public. Thus being resource neutral. Too early for commuting given the return train times. But there may be local reasons which make that attractive - such as 12 hour shifts at the hospital rather then 8 which used to be commonplace.

 

[bearhugger]

According to the latest EVRDC newsletter published today:
http://email.envoy.uk.net/t/ViewEmailArchive/t/66114CFC1C931458/C67FD2F38AC4859C/

The times they are a-changin'
But not as much as originally planned because of rolling stock shortages following delays to electrification in the North West.

From May 20, the first train of the day, which will form the school train, will start from Darlington at 06.34, leaves Middlesbrough at 07.05 (one minute later than previously) but still arrives at Whitby at 08.37. The next train from Middlesbrough is then eight minutes earlier than now, leaving at 10.20 and arriving at Whitby at 11.51. The present 14.04 from Middlesbrough now departs two minutes earlier at 14.02 and restores a call at Marton at 14.09. The last train of the day to Whitby is 16 minutes later than now at 17.56 from Middlesbrough and will be a through train from Hexham, Newcastle, Sunderland and Hartlepool.

From Whitby, the first train of the day is as now at 08.45. However, the second departs earlier at 11.58. The school train continues to depart at 15.59 and will now be a through train to Hartlepool, Sunderland, Newcastle and Hexham.

The last train of the day is later than now at 19.34.

In addition, there are trains at roughly hourly intervals between Middlesbrough and Nunthorpe until 21.20.
Additional Trains to the National Park
There are also additional services over part of the line. As an experiment to encourage use of the train to visit the National Park, a through train from Hexham, Newcastle, Sunderland and Hartlepool will run to Danby for the Moors Centre, calling at all stations to Nunthorpe and then only at Battersby and arriving at Danby at 13.43. It departs again back to Hexham at 13.50 calling at the same stations.


There is also an additional train from Middlesbrough at 17.00 calling at all stations to Nunthorpe and then Great Ayton at 17.24 and Battersby at 17.30, departing again from there at 17.45, calling at Great Ayton at 17.50 and then all stations to Newcastle.

 

[bearhugger]

The latest Esk Valley Railway Development Company newsletter published today has the following to say:
http://email.envoy.uk.net/t/ViewEmailArchive/t/66114CFC1C931458/C67FD2F38AC4859C/

The times they are a-changin'
But not as much as originally planned because of rolling stock shortages following delays to electrification in the North West.

From May 20, the first train of the day, which will form the school train, will start from Darlington at 06.34, leaves Middlesbrough at 07.05 (one minute later than previously) but still arrives at Whitby at 08.37. The next train from Middlesbrough is then eight minutes earlier than now, leaving at 10.20 and arriving at Whitby at 11.51. The present 14.04 from Middlesbrough now departs two minutes earlier at 14.02 and restores a call at Marton at 14.09. The last train of the day to Whitby is 16 minutes later than now at 17.56 from Middlesbrough and will be a through train from Hexham, Newcastle, Sunderland and Hartlepool.

From Whitby, the first train of the day is as now at 08.45. However, the second departs earlier at 11.58. The school train continues to depart at 15.59 and will now be a through train to Hartlepool, Sunderland, Newcastle and Hexham.

The last train of the day is later than now at 19.34.

In addition, there are trains at roughly hourly intervals between Middlesbrough and Nunthorpe until 21.20.


Additional Trains to the National Park
There are also additional services over part of the line. As an experiment to encourage use of the train to visit the National Park, a through train from Hexham, Newcastle, Sunderland and Hartlepool will run to Danby for the Moors Centre, calling at all stations to Nunthorpe and then only at Battersby and arriving at Danby at 13.43. It departs again back to Hexham at 13.50 calling at the same stations.


There is also an additional train from Middlesbrough at 17.00 calling at all stations to Nunthorpe and then Great Ayton at 17.24 and Battersby at 17.30, departing again from there at 17.45, calling at Great Ayton at 17.50 and then all stations to Newcastle.



New Timetable
Here is a link to a draft version of the Summer 2018 timetable. The final approved new timetable will be available on the Northern website after the 7th May.