Euro train booking system shelved

[philjo]

On BBC news:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8382508.stm

Railteam, the alliance of European high-speed rail operators, has shelved plans for a Europe-wide common booking system because of increasing costs.

The system would have allowed customers to book tickets for Europe-wide rail journeys in a single transaction.

The platform was due to be unveiled this year, but has been scrapped for the foreseeable future, according to Eurostar.

Railteam's other members include Thalys, SNCF and Deutsche Bahn.

"All seven high-speed operators thought the platform would be a good idea but once we started looking at the system in detail we realised that it would be very complicated and therefore extremely expensive." said Lesley Retallack from Eurostar.

At present, although travellers can book some Europe-wide tickets through the individual websites of Railteam's members, passengers often receive more than one ticket for journeys onward from the carriers' normal routes.

The new system would have created a one-stop-shop for tickets for complete high-speed journeys across Europe.

 

[jon0844]

It might be expensive, but if I was in business to make money then I might consider something that makes it easier for people to spend money (and encourage more travel as a result of it being easier) a rather good investment!

 

[Mojo]

Kind of defeats the point of Railteam then. Sleazyjet and Lie'n'scare must be having a champagne lunch this afternoon.

 

[A60K]

Kind of defeats the point of Railteam then. Sleazyjet and Lie'n'scare must be having a champagne lunch this afternoon.

Agree - the CIV already covers one of Railteam's major remaining selling points (train delay causing you to miss a connection).

I suspect that in reality it wasn't 'too expensive' from a software development angle, but rather that the individual companies would have to give up some of their commercial freedom to set fares to a consortium also including their potential future competitors.

 

[Railjet]

This is unbelievable. They're trying to sell rail travel as an alternative to short-haul air travel; they have spent and are spending billions of any currency you care to name on high speed infrastructure, yet they can't spare a few millions (if that!) to develop a common booking system so that the key person in the whole equation - the consumer - can get what he wants?

Surely this is exactly the sort of project crying out for EU finance!! Forget it, they're probably financing petty corrupt projects in central Europe - where it is not difficult to get a 50% grant (not a loan) for virtually any hair-brained scheme you can think of. And I'm a pro-European :-x

 

[A60K]

This is unbelievable. They're trying to sell rail travel as an alternative to short-haul air travel; they have spent and are spending billions of any currency you care to name on high speed infrastructure, yet they can't spare a few millions (if that!) to develop a common booking system so that the key person in the whole equation - the consumer - can get what he wants?

Surely this is exactly the sort of project crying out for EU finance!! Forget it, they're probably financing petty corrupt projects in central Europe - where it is not difficult to get a 50% grant (not a loan) for virtually any hair-brained scheme you can think of. And I'm a pro-European :-x

To be honest, they could have just used the DB booking system and added the extra services. As I mentioned above, I think this is a commercial and/or political decision. After all, there are strong rumours that DB will be running services in competition with Eurostar and SNCF within a couple of years. From the passengers' viewpoint though it is stupid.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I would agree about just using the DB booking system, the SNCF one is rubbish

 

[hiddeneurope]

Yes, as others here have observed, this development well and truly puts a dent in one of Railteam's prime selling points. Once upon a time, way back in the depths of history, the railway and ferry companies of Europe got together and decided it would be a wonderful thing if their tariff systems could be harmonised in a way that might allow the international traveller to buy a train ticket from Stockholm to Paris or from London to Berlin. Thus was born the TCV (tarif commun international pour le transport des voyageurs), a simple but decidedly useful facility that allowed us to cross the continent using any number of trains and ferries with just a single ticket for the entire journey.

In many parts of the continent, the TCV fares still serve as the basis for international tickets. But more and more premium operators (like Eurostar) have opted out of the TCV scheme, offering Global fares that reflect (they say) the premium quality of their trains. Railteam offered the prospect of some tariff integration that included Eurostar, Thalys and other premium services. Sad that it's been scrapped.

You can read a note on this at http://www.hiddeneurope.co.uk/hidden-europe-notes, and look for the article of 1 December.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Eurostar a premium quality service? May have been once, but not now

 

[jon0844]

It still has a feeling of being something really special to a lot of people, but it shouldn't be. It should no more of a special experience than getting any train, but Eurostar still sell it as being a sexy, romantic, train journey.

Do people in mainland Europe think the same way when crossing borders? They certainly don't in Sweden when going over the bridge/tunnel to Denmark! That's a simple turn up and go service too; no compulsory reservations there!

 

[gordonthemoron]

If/when they replace Eurostar trains, I presume they will be built to Bern (sp?) Gauge

 

[jon0844]

I should add that it can be a very romantic experience to travel first class on Eurostar for a weekend in Paris, and I wouldn't want to see that ending - but there should also be trains that are cheaper to use, trains to more destinations and even trains throughout the night (even if not that regular).

Imagine how much more 'open' Europe would be if there was a 24 hour service. What about sleeper services leaving St Pancras at night to go way beyond Belgium and France?

Perhaps Eurostar wants to protect its monopoly - although they should actually take the lead by trying to extend the service itself.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Travelling from Munich-Brussels by ICE and then changing onto a Eurostar (first class in both), it is immediately apparent how pokey the Eurostar is

 

[hiddeneurope]

.
I would certainly not write off Eurostar as boring or hum-drum. Perhaps that's because I live in Berlin, and so use Eurostar only occasionally - perhaps a dozen trips a year. To my mind, the run out of London towards the Kent Coast is still absolutely one of Europe's great rail journeys. What other 40 minute train trip can encompass such a variety of views and emotions? Here is an extract from a piece which I wrote (and which was published last year in a travel magazine):

"To slide out of St Pancras early on a bright summer morning is an adventure beyond compare. Watch for tantalising shadows at Stratford, a burst of sunshine as the train storms out of the London tunnels onto the Dagenham marshes — and never did the bridge over the Thames at Dartford look so good.

"The route plunges under the Thames, out into a nowhere-world of north Kent industry and, just as disorientation threatens to distract you from the route, there comes the very reassuring Medway Viaduct. The train speeds over the river where once the Dutch tried to attack the English fleet.

"By the time you notice the first pang of morning hunger, the train has swept under the North Downs to emerge in a verdant vale of oast houses and picture perfect villages. And then the Channel Tunnel. In less than an hour from London, you are in France."

And, if I might gently add (as a comment to Railjet above), as someone living in central Europe, I was utterly unaware that I lived in an area awash with EU grants. You mention the "petty corrupt projects in central Europe - where it is not difficult to get a 50% grant (not a loan) for virtually any hair-brained scheme you can think of." I'd be pleased to hear more. Most of us living in eastern Germany, Poland and Czech Republic look with envy at the capacity of Brits to cull EU rebates and grants. We'd all welcome a tip or two as how you guys do it. There are no end of local community rail projects and transport infrastructure initiatives in Britain that seem to benefit from lavish EU funding.

 

[jon0844]

Of course, the view would be the same on any train! You can get much the same view on a 395 to Ashford International and back (as I did to try out the new train).

 

[Metroland]

Kind of defeats the point of Railteam then. Sleazyjet and Lie'n'scare must be having a champagne lunch this afternoon.

Indeed. I saw this too, you often wonder if the railway wants to exist in 50 years time the way it just rolls over and quits and actually trying to make things easier and compete. I see no practical reason why the European HS network cannot have a streamlined tickets system. I rather suspect its down to the usual politics.

 

[jon0844]

We obviously have a problem with customs/passport control - and so a train coming from, say, Munich overnight would need that check to be done before boarding.

The obvious answer is for us to do away with the border checks, and rely on them being done in mainland Europe, but I guess we have too much to lose as long as people choose to come here over anywhere else they pass through.

The only other solution is to have the UK Border checks done at St Pancras, but that obviously means you may have to then start paying to send people back who are turned away. Of course, this solves the problem and allows you to have trains coming in from anywhere.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I suspect that the root of this may be a disagreement between DB & SNCF, they don't seem to be getting on terribly well at the moment. SNCF have annoyed DB by announcing that they intend to run intercity trains (i.e. TGVs) in Germany following next year's rail access liberalisation, However, the French won't allow DB to run trains in France

 

[A60K]

We obviously have a problem with customs/passport control - and so a train coming from, say, Munich overnight would need that check to be done before boarding.

The obvious answer is for us to do away with the border checks, and rely on them being done in mainland Europe, but I guess we have too much to lose as long as people choose to come here over anywhere else they pass through.

The only other solution is to have the UK Border checks done at St Pancras, but that obviously means you may have to then start paying to send people back who are turned away. Of course, this solves the problem and allows you to have trains coming in from anywhere.

In Central Europe where border checks are still in place the border guards generally get on at a station before the border then off again at a station just after, shuttling up and down between the two stops. Alternatively they stop the train at the station nearest the border for 25 minutes and the guards pass through the train while stationary.


You could have the two stations arrangement for day trains (Calais Frethunm and Ashford Int) and a long stop at Frethun for the night trains.

I guess there would still be the need to screen baggage though, against any possible terrorist attack with a bag on the train.

 

[jon0844]

I remember passport checks on Eurostar when I first travelled back in 1994. I guess it was a bit of a logistical nightmare, and even worse once they started to run more services!

 

[A60K]

Actually, yes that reminds me! Around 2000/1 my passport was checked on the train between Paris and the tunnel by a British immigration officer. It was the last train of the day, so perhaps that made a difference.

 

[jon0844]

I am sure I once saw a room that could be used to hold passengers, with places to handcuff people. Did I dream this?

I always wondered if this was something slightly above first class.

 

[A60K]

There is at least one holding cell on a Eurostar train - Modern Railways did a spoof formation of the train back in the late 80s which started something like M-MTS-TSDHKL-TSJCIL...
TSDHKL = Trailer Standard Dog Handler Kennel Lavatory
TSJCIL = Trailer Standard Jail Customs Immigration Lavatory
and so on, but it was much funnier and concluded there would be one coach for normal passengers