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Eurostar .. Gone down the pan ??

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rmt4ever

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Currently finishing a Euro* city break to Lille.

Its been a while since doing a Euro* trip, and I have always been a fan of the service since first using it way back during the Waterloo days.

However I have said this time that this will be my last trip.

I always pay extra for the "middle" class of service.

I can remember Waterloo days this included lounge access, champagne on board, hot food, generous drinks allowance.

On our way out I was shocked when they refused my Mrs a choice of drink, because she wanted a GnT rather than beer or wine ! She was told to walk to the buffet car and purchase it.

The food is abysmal and drinks service "stingy"!

And at Lille, I always get amazed at the shoddy state of this place. They insist you check in half an hour before, at least- actually advising 45 minutes!!

There is NOTHING to do for 45 minutes here. Why do they insist on this? There isnt even a bar (my major gripe). Its painful the dull wait until the train comes..

There are no lounge facilities for the top class passengers. I would be so annoyed if I had paid so much and didnt even get a drink at the departure point. The top class is always so much more expensive than the middle class that I always travel.

Imagine if I purchesed business class flights with BA and at Heathrow was told there is no lounge, or even bar to wait in after checking in !

Im sorry Euro*, but I fear this will be the last trip I shall make on your trains...
 
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DaiGog

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I didn't think the middle class existed in Waterloo days? When First was First, you got all the trimmings but never did with the intermediate class, as far as I was aware. I used the proper First Class a few times - FIP fares are wonderful things! - but ceased to bother with First once the middle tier came in (FIP discount only applies to this, not full First) as the price didn't change but the service did.

I find Eurostar to be very good when it works, but trying to get anything out of them in terms of customer service is futile. I made two separate enquiries last year:
- An email requesting a change of reserved seat so two of us could travel together on separate bookings went ignored;
- A request to travel via Paris in lieu of Brussels (coming from Germany) was flatly refused, despite the reason being a rail strike in Belgium. In the end I went via Paris anyway and chanced my luck - and in about two minutes flat, the lady in the booking office went away, made a phonecall, stamped my ticket and sent me on my way at no additional cost.
 

rmt4ever

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I didn't think the middle class existed in Waterloo days? When First was First, you got all the trimmings but never did with the intermediate class, as far as I was aware. I used the proper First Class a few times - FIP fares are wonderful things! - but ceased to bother with First once the middle tier came in (FIP discount only applies to this, not full First) as the price didn't change but the service did.

I find Eurostar to be very good when it works, but trying to get anything out of them in terms of customer service is futile. I made two separate enquiries last year:
- An email requesting a change of reserved seat so two of us could travel together on separate bookings went ignored;
- A request to travel via Paris in lieu of Brussels (coming from Germany) was flatly refused, despite the reason being a rail strike in Belgium. In the end I went via Paris anyway and chanced my luck - and in about two minutes flat, the lady in the booking office went away, made a phonecall, stamped my ticket and sent me on my way at no additional cost.

You may well be correct. It was a while ago. However I am sure at least once I went on the "middle tier" from Waterloo, and got the full trimmings service.

Indeed this continued upon the move to St Pan, with the exception of the lounge.

Ive just had a wander to standard and the seats are abysmal. Im quite tall, but check out this lack of leg room. Id rather travel on one of the LUL new SSR trains for a couple of hours, than this next to a stranger !!
 

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185143

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hungry:2437082 said:
Enjoy Ryanair.

Travelled Ryanair once in 2012 (only airline between 2 destinations I needed to travel between on the contonent)... It was better than Eurostar standard seems to be !
Ive never travelled Eurostar but travelled Ryanair twice. Really not as bad as its made out to be!
 

Bletchleyite

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Enjoy Ryanair.

More likely easyJet. Personally, I'd rather fly easyJet than use E* at the moment - as both have security checks the disadvantage of air is removed, and air has plenty of advantages e.g. airports generally nicer than the hovel at Paris Nord, no need to carry your own bag around, planes kept properly clean etc.
 

gordonthemoron

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Coming back from Germany on an ICE and then transferring to an E* at Brussels shows how cramped the e300 seating is. Hopefully the e320 seating is better
 

TheEscapist_

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I find Eurostar to be very good when it works, but trying to get anything out of them in terms of customer service is futile. I made two separate enquiries last year:
- An email requesting a change of reserved seat so two of us could travel together on separate bookings went ignored.


Im going on Eurostar for the first time in May, booked my FIP ticket and realised I had an isle seat. I emailed them and asked them if it's possible to be moved to a window seat and the replied in a couple days with my new reservation. I thought that was great! Looks like I'm on the new e320 train to Paris.
 

Polarbear

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As I recall, when E* started in 1994, they offered 1st & 2nd whilst they built their market. Seems strange to think they started off with 2 trains per day to/from Paris but I digress.

Leisure First was introduced not long after services commenced & I can certainly recall doing one or two journeys from Waterloo in Leisure First. In its heyday, it was an excellent way to go, but it could be argued that it diminished the value of 'Business First' as other than lounge access, (and the price) there was little difference between the two.

Cue a re-vamp by E* and what we have today is a very poor relation to how it used to be & I for one will no longer trade up. These days, it's better value to go standard & buy some decent food to have en route

E*'s fare policy is more akin to that of an airline, but I feel it misses many tricks to maximise revenue. On my last trip from Paris on a Sunday evening, I ended up sat in 1st as the 21:13 was rammed & 3 first class coaches had been declassified! No TOC this side of the Channel would do that-weekend first upgrade would be the way forward. It's something I'd pay for as I don't necessarily want the "free" food, but a more comfy seat for say £25 upgrade, I could handle that.
 

Barn

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I can remember Waterloo days this included lounge access, champagne on board, hot food, generous drinks allowance.

On our way out I was shocked when they refused my Mrs a choice of drink, because she wanted a GnT rather than beer or wine ! She was told to walk to the buffet car and purchase it.

The food is abysmal and drinks service "stingy"!

And at Lille, I always get amazed at the shoddy state of this place. They insist you check in half an hour before, at least- actually advising 45 minutes!!

There is NOTHING to do for 45 minutes here. Why do they insist on this? There isnt even a bar (my major gripe). Its painful the dull wait until the train comes..

There are no lounge facilities for the top class passengers. I would be so annoyed if I had paid so much and didnt even get a drink at the departure point. The top class is always so much more expensive than the middle class that I always travel.

Imagine if I purchesed business class flights with BA and at Heathrow was told there is no lounge, or even bar to wait in after checking in !

Im sorry Euro*, but I fear this will be the last trip I shall make on your trains...

I have to say that the mental picture I have of you and your wife is:

article-2624220-1D872D4F00000578-508_964x643.jpg
 

D6700

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I have to confess that was the impression I got too :lol:

Always good to have a rant to get things off your chest, though! Even if some of the issues raised weren't even involved in the journey being made...

On Sunday, I travelled second class (or is third class?!) on one of the new Eurostar trains. My impressions were that the leg room was pretty good, but the seats were very high, making it impossible to see down the train without reaching up. The high seats, combined with thick pillars, mean some seats provide no view at all. That said, the young couple in front of me appeared to appreciate the extra privacy it afforded them ;) For what it is worth, I relied on the Eurostar seating plan to find a seat with a view - and this worked well, so it appears the seating chart is accurate with regard to window position.
 

anme

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It might be better to scrap these premium classes altogether. They just make people angry and unhappy as the service and free stuff is never as good as they feel they are entitled to.

I recently watched a clearly wealthy couple reach almost apoplectic fury in an airline lounge when the free coffee was not to their liking.
 

Bletchleyite

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I don't know if I'd scrap the premium classes, but removing the additional *service* does add credence to the idea of First Class on trains just being about a wider seat and the differential being lower.
 

Greenback

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I used standard premier once. It was rubbish, and not worth paying any extra for. To be honest, I can only think of one purpose that it fulfils, which is to create additional revenue from people who might want to try it out but will likely never use it again.

In the end, it's just a rail journey of a couple of hours, and standard is good enough for me. I don't want complimentary drinks, I'd sooner by them myself I want them, and have a cheaper fare.
 

Bletchleyite

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I used standard premier once. It was rubbish, and not worth paying any extra for.

I used it once, and its sole real benefit was a wider seat with more legroom. I am happy to pay extra for a wider seat with more legroom (I frequently use Weekend First, which is essentially that) - but I would rather they removed the poor quality freebies and brought the fare down a bit more. I'm essentially willing to pay an increased fare in proportion with the increased amount of space the seats take up, which is somewhere around the "half as much again" figure common in Europe.

I was however miffed by how filthy the train was inside, though that is equally a complaint about Standard. There is no excuse for filthy trains, whatever class it is. I'm not talking the previous set of passengers having mucked it up a bit, I'm talking proper ground-in filth. If E* have trouble with that they need a word in the ear of VT - a mucky Pendolino (inside or out) is not a common sight.

Speaking of which, I've near enough stopped using Travelodges because the rooms are dirty and damaged more often than not. I have no problem with basic (I don't even mind Accor's Ibis Budget, which is almost youth-hostel basic), nor do I mind the idea that once I've got the room I clean it myself until I check out (I don't after all change the towels daily at home, more like weekly) but there is a need for proper maintenance between users whatever the price level.
 
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Greenback

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I didn't find the standard premier seats any more comfortable than the standard one, despite the extra room. I would be happy to pay more for such a benefit, though, just like you. The food I received was risible. My budgie would have still been hungry after the tiny piece of chicken and assorted odds and ends. The coach seemed reasonably clean, at least.
 

TheEscapist_

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I've paid for standard premier on my one from Brussels to London, I'm really not bothered about freebies I just like more space and a seat to myself.
 

Phil.

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Eurostar was launched just as the budget airlines came on stream. Notwithstanding that, Eurostar were sure of their market (high powered business types which is why there was so little luggage room originally) and didn't even budget for advertising with one senior manager telling me that, "word of mouth will soon have the customers coming".
A frequent traveller out of Waterloo in early days was the portly Greek who owned/ran Easyjet. I stopped him once and asked of his thoughts. In so many words he stated that trying to run a railway like a state owned airline was going to end in tears.
Eurostar gets more like a budget airline every day. The novelty wore off about eighteen months after the move to St, Pancras.
 

Bletchleyite

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I've paid for standard premier on my one from Brussels to London, I'm really not bothered about freebies I just like more space and a seat to myself.

In some ways rubbish freebies are worse than no freebies - it's in a way a bit like omitting to tip in a restaurant (might mean you're just not a tipper) vs. tipping 1p (a very deliberate statement, and something only to do if you are never, ever going to return).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Eurostar gets more like a budget airline every day.

More like the blue budget airline. Meanwhile, under the superb leadership of Carolyn McCall, easyJet gets better and better.

Perhaps E* should attempt to poach her.
 

anme

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I'm clearly missing something because I don't understand the problem people have with Eurostar. If you want to get from central Paris or Brussels to London, it's generally the quickest way and most convenient way. Prices are largely comparable to making the same journey by air. Obviously time and price will vary depending on the exact journey you're making, but if it works for you, why wouldn't you take it? It's hard to imagine that any of the deficiencies mentioned here would change anyone's mind about using the service.

BTW, in my recent experience, admittedly at peak times, is that the trains operate more or less at capacity, in standard class at least.
 

anme

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Really? It's not cheap. I won't use it if it's not up to scratch. It's not like London commuting where there is no alternative.

Yes, really. Surely time, convenience and price are going to trump the quality of the free drinks in 99% of cases? I mean, I agree the trains can be a bit grubby outside (not inside), but that's very much on my "don't care" list.
 

Bletchleyite

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Yes, really. Surely time, convenience and price are going to trump the quality of the free drinks in 99% of cases? I mean, I agree the trains can be a bit grubby outside (not inside), but that's very much on my "don't care" list.

I have found them mucky on the inside, and I definitely do care about that. It's sloppy, shoddy and not somewhere I want my money going.

I also like to be able to see out of the window. Again, it's about attention to detail in what is *not* a budget product.
 
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Polarbear

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As has been alluded to earlier, E* is fine for the city to city dash & if booked in advance, can be reasonably priced. The trouble is that it tries too much to mirror airline practice which, for me, is a major failing.

I certainly wouldn't scrap the premier class as I would expect this to bring in a lot of money for the company. Scrap that & you'd soon find business flights returning on the London - Paris corridor. I would however be inclined to introduce advance tickets for Premier Class, something that has never been offered by E* to date. This would have to be carefully controlled to avoid abstraction of full fare revenue, but i'm sure it could be done.

At weekends, why not offer a facility to upgrade to a 1st class seat for say £25 or £30 one way on the day (subject to availability? No food or drink, just the seat. The demand for business travel at weekends is much reduced & E* would save on the cost of the provision of the (limited) food that is offered in "Premier Standard" I'd certainly pay for that.

On an aside, if we are going to have an intermediate class of travel, make it worthwhile Eurostar..!! <( Arguably, the former Leisure First offer was generous as it was basically the same as full fat first class (but without access to the lounges). Once you've given something - it's very hard to take it away again. If E* do happen to give a tinkers' cuss about their customers (and I do wonder if they do sometimes given some of my experiences), at least make the food & drink offer for Premier Standard something worth upgrading for.

Remember the cheap day returns that used to be offered at weekends anyone - £59 return & that was turn up & go too! Another casualty of the airline policy adopted by E*

I'll shut up now...!! ;)
 

duncanp

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Before 2010, what is now Standard Premier was called Leisure Select.

You got champagne on boarding, hot towels, and a much better (hot) meal with wine, and often you would get a second (mini) bottle.

In 2010 they downgraded the service to what it is now, without reducing the price.

This has put a lot of people off, and I agree with you that the food is an embarrassment.

As for Lille Europe, they have expanded the departure area after security, and there is now somewhere that sells hot drinks and sandwiches, plus more toilets. (There used to be just one male and one female toilet) They could do with a bar there though. It is possible to sit at the bar that is outside security and listen for the announcement that check in is open, and then finish your drink and join the queue when it has gone down a bit. It is not ideal, but on the other hand they don't usually close check in until 10 - 15 minutes before departure.

Eurostar could do with some competition though, however the immigration and security checks are not going to encourage new operators such as Deutsche Bahn to increase through services to Germany.

On the other hand there are good connections at Lille Europe, and it is often more convenient to change there than in Paris.
 
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