Euston departure board to be moved

[zwk500]

There's a difference between there being "no place" for advertising on the railway and allowing it to get in the way of providing travel information.

Which is what my last sentence was pointing out.

 

[FOH]

No, there isn't one. Another fault with the new setup.

Tells you the design was probably done by crowd control experts to suit extreme once a year conditions rather than people with railway knowledge suiting every other day of the year

 

[Purple Train]

No, there isn't one. Another fault with the new setup.

There was one last time I used Euston for meeting a friend off an arrival (after these boards had been installed) - a tiny little dot-matrix one in the walkway between the concourse and platform ramps, perpendicular to the tracks and opposite the left-hand side of the entrance from Euston Road.

 

[renegademaster]

Tells you the design was probably done by crowd control experts to suit extreme once a year conditions rather than people with railway knowledge suiting every other day of the year

Tbf it's more like once every couple of weeks

 

[Kenny G]

I wonder how long it will be before online options are promoted at stations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Tells you the design was probably done by crowd control experts to suit extreme once a year conditions rather than people with railway knowledge suiting every other day of the year

Doubt it, it doesn't work with crowds, they stand blocking access ways instead of in the middle. It would work with one board, it doesn't with two.

 

[jhy44]

I've only used Euston a few times with the new boards and personally find the setup much better. Rather than one big crowd looking up at the old boards with no natural walking routes through from station entrance to platforms, you can now walk right underneath the two new sections of boards (as no one stands there as it would hurt one's neck far too much looking up at that angle). The crowd is now more spread out and concourse flow seemed much better.

I assume there will be an assessment in due course as to what the impact has been, but I'd expect them to elect to keep the new setup based on the improvements I've seen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've only used Euston a few times with the new boards and personally find the setup much better. Rather than one big crowd looking up at the old boards with no natural walking routes through from station entrance to platforms, you can now walk right underneath the two new sections of boards (as no one stands there as it would hurt one's neck far too much looking up at that angle). The crowd is now more spread out and concourse flow seemed much better.

I assume there will be an assessment in due course as to what the impact has been, but I'd expect them to elect to keep the new setup based on the improvements I've seen.

This however is at the expense of people standing and blocking the sides where the doors are. Thus the scrum may be eased slightly but entering and exiting the station is far, far worse.

One transverse board in the middle would work OK. It also needs more panels, though.

To me it is definitely NOT an improvement.

 

[Trainbike46]

This however is at the expense of people standing and blocking the sides where the doors are. Thus the scrum may be eased slightly but entering and exiting the station is far, far worse.

One transverse board in the middle would work OK. It also needs more panels, though.

To me it is definitely NOT an improvement.

It would also need a more suitable type of screen. What they're currently using is worse than the dot-matrix displays for reading comfortably, so they should either go back to those or get something that is better than those.

Other, better, solutions are available for the Euston Scrum, including opening the platforms for the LNWR services 5 minutes after the train has stopped in the platform

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would also need a more suitable type of screen. What they're currently using is worse than the dot-matrix displays for reading comfortably, so they should either go back to those or get something that is better than those.

LCD or OLED would be better. The ones used are designed for reading from a distance, not relatively up close. Standard 40-50" TV panels on a metal rail would be fine, they don't burn in like plasmas used to. Would also have been a tenth of the cost.

Other, better, solutions are available for the Euston Scrum, including opening the platforms for the LNWR services 5 minutes after the train has stopped in the platform

Making it easier to get last minute reservations for Avanti would help, like LNER do. I see no reason to suppress LNR platforms at all, they didn't in Silverlink days and it worked far better.

 

[jayah]

LCD or OLED would be better. The ones used are designed for reading from a distance, not relatively up close. Standard 40-50" TV panels on a metal rail would be fine, they don't burn in like plasmas used to. Would also have been a tenth of the cost.

Paddington has something like this next to the Hammersmith Line entrance. It doesn't work at all, the text is far too small.

Making it easier to get last minute reservations for Avanti would help, like LNER do. I see no reason to suppress LNR platforms at all, they didn't in Silverlink days and it worked far better.

Or simply advertise when the platform will be advertised, like they do in airports. No need for everyone to be glued to the screen if the inbound service is still 10 miles away.

 

[xydancer]

No, there isn't one. Another fault with the new setup.

Actually, there are two arrival screens at Euston (or were last week!). Both old-style TV monitor-type affairs. Neither obviously located to be fair. One is on the main concourse, roughly near the top of platform 12, one in the waiting room between the ramps to platforms 15 and 16.

 

[BrianW]

Actually, there are two arrival screens at Euston (or were last week!). Both old-style TV monitor-type affairs. Neither obviously located to be fair. One is on the main concourse, roughly near the top of platform 12, one in the waiting room between the ramps to platforms 15 and 16.

Does this help?-

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/London-Euston-Station-Map.pdf

 

[Hadders]

Actually, there are two arrival screens at Euston (or were last week!). Both old-style TV monitor-type affairs. Neither obviously located to be fair. One is on the main concourse, roughly near the top of platform 12, one in the waiting room between the ramps to platforms 15 and 16.

I was at Euston earlier and did see the one by platform 12. Angled away from where most people would stand. It's a leftover from the old set-up. Really needs something new.

 

[josh-j]

Where has anybody said the choice is absolute?

It's not a false choice, it's all part of the balancing act. Like every business, the railway has many different revenue streams, and if one of those streams is generating less cash at the moment it will look to maximise others. It's all very well banging your fist and demanding the treasury hand over the chequebook but there's other vital services that are doing the same and the railway is arguably in less need than e.g. Health or Education. Adverts are visible on platforms in the Victorian era, and train companies themselves use the advertising spaces to increase custom. BR carried them throughout it's life.
It's a legitimate discussion whether the correct balance is being struck today, but the idea that there is no place for adverts within the railway is laughable.

The railway is a public service, not a business. If it was a business, it would have to make a profit. And society would be worse off as a result.

I do agree it's about proportionality, but we're talking about ripping the boards down, putting them in stupid places instead and replacing their original position with massive advert. I don't think it's unreasonable, considering this is a public service, to ask for service users to be prioritised rather than treated as rubes ready to be ripped off by whatever manipulative advertisers are willing to pay a sufficient premium.

 

[zwk500]

The railway is a public service, not a business. If it was a business, it would have to make a profit. And society would be worse off as a result.

I do agree it's about proportionality, but we're talking about ripping the boards down, putting them in stupid places instead and replacing their original position with massive advert. I don't think it's unreasonable, considering this is a public service, to ask for service users to be prioritised rather than treated as rubes ready to be ripped off by whatever manipulative advertisers are willing to pay a sufficient premium.

Your first sentence suggests that there should be 0 adverts anywhere on the system, your second suggests adverts should only be limited to whichever spaces are left over after passenger information has been clearly communicated. The 2nd is of course perfectly reasonable, but which are you actually proposing?

 

[185]

Your first sentence suggests that there should be 0 adverts anywhere on the system

Your reply implies that advertising for Bodyform ladytowels is more important than the main departure board at Euston.

Advertising is fine. But it should NEVER be a reason to rip down the biggest departure board in one of biggest major stations in the UK and cause worse chaos with an already crowded station.

 

[zwk500]

Your reply implies that advertising for Bodyform ladytowels is more important than the main departure board at Euston.

No it doesn't, especially as you've cut off the 'whichever spaces are leftover after passenger information has been clearly communicated' part of my reply.

The old Euston board location was far from working. If it was a busy evening and you entered on the right-hand side of the concourse it could take you a while to get to the left-hand side of the board for the next train. At all times people just milled about at the top, blocking the flows to the shops, toilets, exits and platforms, and when a train was announced there was a great tide of people who filled the hallway, arriving passengers be damned.

Turning the boards around is not a bad idea in principle, although it does not seem to have worked (I haven't experienced it first hand but have seen the reports on here and from other friends). When a solution that does work is found, then using space to advertise is fine. Nobody calls for the Screens at Victoria or King's Cross to be got rid of (or, for that matter, called for the old screens on the end of the Euston departure Boards). Even though they could feasibly fit another couple of train on in that space.

 

[AY1975]

Green includes the platform and that the train is ready for boarding. Blue means wait on the concourse.

I'm fairly sure that I've also seen them showing red for cancelled and amber for delayed. In this clip

from 3:34 until 3:47 you can see some of them showing red with an exclamation mark in a triangle, and I can just about make out the word Cancelled on them.

 

[Backroom_boy]

I wonder how long it will be before online options are promoted at stations.

Yes this; this would be an easy fix and useful for most people, as long as the 'departure board App' could be guaranteed to provide identical information.

 

[Richardr]

Is there capacity on the phone networks for a thousand people to be checking departures on an app simultaneously in the same place? [I've no idea hence the question].

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there capacity on the phone networks for a thousand people to be checking departures on an app simultaneously in the same place? [I've no idea hence the question].

In short, yes. A lot of people already will be.

 

[Bald Rick]

Is there capacity on the phone networks for a thousand people to be checking departures on an app simultaneously in the same place? [I've no idea hence the question].

Very much yes. Given that at the same location many people will be streaming live video, the extra traffic generated by checking a live departure board app is negligible.

 

[josh-j]

Can we please just keep the screens?

I have a smart phone but nobody should have to rely on one for basic services. Having to use an app means having to do business with one of two enormous tech companies, one of which is well known for scooping up as much personal details as it can in order to build advertising profiles on you and your friends. These companies are already so big governments can barely control them. Apps are a lock-in. Websites, not so much.

Screens are technology-agnostic and make a ton of sense for a public service.

 

[Bald Rick]

Can we please just keep the screens?

I have a smart phone but nobody should have to rely on one for basic services. Having to use an app means having to do business with one of two enormous tech companies, one of which is well known for scooping up as much personal details as it can in order to build advertising profiles on you and your friends. These companies are already so big governments can barely control them. Apps are a lock-in. Websites, not so much.

Screens are technology-agnostic and make a ton of sense for a public service.

Of all the arguments on this thread, that’s the most spurious.

 

[josh-j]

I just baulk at the idea of making an important public service a participant in ad revenue privacy invasion, as a point of principle. The fact the NRE site has a tonne of trackers is ridiculous enough already, frankly.

I don't think it is spurious to make that argument, not in our technologically inclined world. We're the first generation really having to get to grips with what the boundaries should be in technological ethics.

Having said all that though, Open Data is a triumph and I suppose does mean anyone can make (and have made) very useful alternatives. Perhaps my objection should be disregarded if the recommended app was in fact a platform-independent "Progressive Web App" which is basically an enhanced website that behaves like an app, and importantly does not lock anybody in to any particular tech vendor. I still think screens are better than having to mess with such things but that's a different argument, one you'd probably find less spurious, which is fair enough!

 

[Kenny G]

I just baulk at the idea of making an important public service a participant in ad revenue privacy invasion, as a point of principle. The fact the NRE site has a tonne of trackers is ridiculous enough already, frankly.

I don't think it is spurious to make that argument, not in our technologically inclined world. We're the first generation really having to get to grips with what the boundaries should be in technological ethics.

Having said all that though, Open Data is a triumph and I suppose does mean anyone can make (and have made) very useful alternatives. Perhaps my objection should be disregarded if the recommended app was in fact a platform-independent "Progressive Web App" which is basically an enhanced website that behaves like an app, and importantly does not lock anybody in to any particular tech vendor. I still think screens are better than having to mess with such things but that's a different argument, one you'd probably find less spurious, which is fair enough!

The departure and arrival board could be included on the front page of the stations WiFi access page and therefore theoretically accessible by someone who doesn't even have a data package or SIM card.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The departure and arrival board could be included on the front page of the stations WiFi access page and therefore theoretically accessible by someone who doesn't even have a data package or SIM card.

I'm fairly sure Network Rail have a QR code you can scan for one at major stations, don't they?

But if anyone does want one to bookmark, here you go. Works anywhere that has the Worldline system (e.g. Anne announcements), and shows exactly what the station displays do.

https://tiger.worldline.global/EUSTON/cisds;graphic=1

Front page here if you want to look for other stations or display styles: https://tiger.worldline.global

This isn't specifically supposed to be public but isn't specifically supposed to be not public either, it's typically used for those who want to put displays up in places like cafes on stations (though the feed in Euston Nando's seems to come from elsewhere as it has a picture of a train in the top left that these don't).

 

[Backroom_boy]

I'm fairly sure Network Rail have a QR code you can scan for one at major stations, don't they?

But if anyone does want one to bookmark, here you go. Works anywhere that has the Worldline system (e.g. Anne announcements), and shows exactly what the station displays do.

https://tiger.worldline.global/EUSTON/cisds;graphic=1

Front page here if you want to look for other stations or display styles: https://tiger.worldline.global

This isn't specifically supposed to be public but isn't specifically supposed to be not public either, it's typically used for those who want to put displays up in places like cafes on stations (though the feed in Euston Nando's seems to come from elsewhere as it has a picture of a train in the top left that these don't).

These are brilliant! Thankyou!

 

[modernrail]

This doesn’t help does it. Why is an entire board covering an entire side of the station showing absolutely useless information for 98% of the customers needing … information.

Who controls this stuff and what are they thinking????