Euston overcrowding

[duffield]

If the ad screens can't immediately be re-purposed for departures etc., in the meantime they should be set to display soothing colours, or puppies and kittens playing, particularly during times of disruption. And I'm only half joking; any small reduction in passenger stress levels would potentially result in less stressed behaviour.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

You mean TOCs were not allowed to advertise for ticket office vacancies? How come?

I don't really know the reason, all I know is the company weren't filling vacancies for around 18-24 months which they are now doing so. This is also general station staff (non-dispatch) positions too

 

[Trainbike46]

It's not unexpected that they weren't hiring for a position they were aiming to abolish, but good to hear vacancies are being filled again

 

[norbitonflyer]

Another article in the Guardian today - in the sport section.

Euston, you have a problem: train travel to football and the basic futility of hope | Barney Ronay

A journey to a game can lead you into the dark underbelly of rail travel, especially from London’s most unloved station

www.theguardian.com

Taking credit for the changes, but of course it was Gareth Denis who set the ball rolling - at the cost of his job.
No sign of a retraction from Hendy yet

it seems absurd that in one place where lots of people do actually want to buy tickets from a ticket office, they don't put on enough staff to cope adequately with the demand.

I weas very gald there was a ticket office open at Oxford this afternoon, when i absent mindedly bought a ticket from the machine for Bristol (the destination of my train) rather than Swindon (where I was actually going).
Senior railcard - Senior Moment

 

[jon0844]

If the ad screens can't immediately be re-purposed for departures etc., in the meantime they should be set to display soothing colours, or puppies and kittens playing, particularly during times of disruption. And I'm only half joking; any small reduction in passenger stress levels would potentially result in less stressed behaviour.

I think I can safely say that if the screens started showing videos of puppies and kittens, Euston station would end up with Wembley Stadium like passenger numbers, and they'd never move. I suppose it would prevent running down to the platforms though.

 

[Lockwood]

You'd get a vocal minority complain on X, formerly known as Twitter, that the videos were insensitive to people with fur allergies and people that had recently lost a pet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think I can safely say that if the screens started showing videos of puppies and kittens, Euston station would end up with Wembley Stadium like passenger numbers, and they'd never move. I suppose it would prevent running down to the platforms though.

How about "some dismal TVM* involving a tug of love custody battle"?

(with thanks to Half Man Half Biscuit - if you've not heard of them look them up, they're a very funny comedy Scouse** band, and the imagery in the song that contains that lyric with regard to the departure display at (presumably) Liverpool Lime St, which I'll not post the name of as it's a bit rude, is fantastic!)

* Television movie, I believe
** Actually from Birkenhead

 

[John R]

It could show London to Brighton in Four Minutes on a never ending loop.

 

[43066]

It could show London to Brighton in Four Minutes on an ever ending loop.

London to Birmingham would be more appropriate, surely!?

 

[TrainTraveler]

There are two questions here in my view

1) What Euston is like in times of major disruption

2) What Euston is like in normal operation

For case 1, disruption I haven't had the misfortune to be there when this has happened but I could well imagine the concourse getting very crowded and there being crowd "crush points".

For case 2, its often very busy. The rise of advance tickets makes people like me be there well before my train time. I'm often there well before the previous train to my destination leaves. This is one factor generating a need for more space. Although personally I dislike it, the glass round the escallator from the underground does have the virtue of forcing people outside, then if the station is too full to get in you are alt least in space outside. It may not be nice but it's better than people coming up the escallator and having nowhere to go.

In the longer term, the HS2 station will add capacity and (hopefully) transfer some passengers to the new part of the station.

The only reasonably "doable" changes to Euston I can think of would be getting rid of the retail on the right hand side (looking at the platforms) and expanding the concourse and in the longer term adding a mezzanine over the ramps to the platform to create a second passenger space with travellators that deliver passengers further down the platforms.

Ticketing changes to reduce dwell times at the station might also help to a degree but given the need for reservations to get a seat I can't see this as an easy fix.

The Kings Cross rebuild is, in my view, very successful and personally I always use the upstairs waiting area for long distance trains.

As an aside, I've always found the Avanti ticket machines at Euston unusably slow. I've tries complaining about this but you get into a cycle of "who manages the station" complain to them, it's not their machine, go to Avanti and get nowhere.

In the end I had to get my advance ticket from the other machines (a different TOC) which were fine.

This is a symptom of the whole fragmented setup at Euston.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Although personally I dislike it, the glass round the escallator from the underground does have the virtue of forcing people outside, then if the station is too full to get in you are alt least in space outside. It may not be nice but it's better than people coming up the escallator and having nowhere to go.

The wall should be a gate - if it gets crowded (or either station is closed) the gate can be closed

 

[Dr Hoo]

The wall should be a gate - if it gets crowded (or either station is closed) the gate can be closed

That would generate huge conflicting flows between people entering the Underground from ‘inside and outside’ and people coming up the escalators from the Underground and dispersing ‘inside and outside’.

 

[BRX]

NR will need ad revenue,

I'm kind of curious how much revenue they actually brought in.

 

[jon0844]

I'm kind of curious how much revenue they actually brought in.

I am sure for that size of display and the number of eyeballs, the ads won't have been cheap and Network Rail will have charged a fair bit for JCDecaux to install it.

I'm sure NR takes a cut from ads, just as it takes a cut from sales from other tenants.

 

[BRX]

I am sure for that size of display and the number of eyeballs, the ads won't have been cheap and Network Rail will have charged a fair bit for JCDecaux to install it.

I'm sure NR takes a cut from ads, just as it takes a cut from sales from other tenants.

I'm sure it's not a small amount considered on its own but it would be interesting to know the actual amount in the context of the overall running costs of the station etc.

Whether it contributed 0.1% or 10% of the running costs of the station would seem significant when considering whether it can be justified as worthwhile when weighed against the annoyance/distraction it causes however many thousands of passengers each day.

 

[John R]

I'm sure it's not a small amount considered on its own but it would be interesting to know the actual amount in the context of the overall running costs of the station etc.

Whether it contributed 0.1% or 10% of the running costs of the station would seem significant when considering whether it can be justified as worthwhile when weighed against the annoyance/distraction it causes however many thousands of passengers each day.

I agree entirely, although glad now to say that it should read "it caused". And hopefully it won't return in anything like it's previous role.

 

[Kite159]

At least the concourse will be a nicer place to wait without that massive advertising screen turned on, especially coming into the winter months when you don't want to hang around in the outside seating area unless you smoke (due to being cold/wet)

 

[Travelmonkey]

One step forward, 2 steps back is a very much Euston's issue, I do like the outside screens but it's not ideal in inclement weather, I know the advertising screen where the old departure board sitted is/was blinding. In every "improvement" project it makes things a little worse,

 

[modernrail]

That any member of management ever felt like it might be a remotely good idea to force a massive, overbearing, ridiculous advertising screen onto passengers standing in what is already probably the most chaotic, woefully run and badly altered station in the country says it all really.

That the SoS has had to step in to point out the really bleeding obvious also says it all really.

What a waste of time, money, effort etc etc. Nation tells NR you are not getting this right, arrogant response. Have this massive epilepsy inducing present for your troubles. SoS steps in, sudden acknowledgement it isn’t great. We are going to try and learn how to run a station. NR should be really embarrassed, but I am sure will find it in themselves not to be.

 

[Travelmonkey]

That any member of management ever felt like it might be a remotely good idea to force a massive, overbearing, ridiculous advertising screen onto passengers standing in what is already probably the most chaotic, woefully run and badly altered station in the country says it all really.

Blinded by corporate money, similar observations can me made to the Fold Street & Burbury Street campaigns seen for Burberry & Samsung at 2 major TFL underground stations,

 

[Mikey C]

At a political level, why does it need the SoS to issue instructions when she has a Rail Minister and three (four since yesterday) top SGBR bods who seeming were unable to sort the problem before it blew up in their faces?
The Hendy role is particularly unfortunate, as you'd expect him, and NR, to take the lead.

The SoS understood the political vibes, and how HATED the advertising board had become when people were crushed in the Euston scrum. It's an easy political win.

Sometimes the rail professionals, whether Network Rail, the franchise holders or before them British Rail are too set in their ways, and the junior ministers too worried about overriding the professionals.

 

[450.emu]

Blinded by corporate money, similar observations can me made to the Fold Street & Burbury Street campaigns seen for Burberry & Samsung at 2 major TFL underground stations,

I remember how that confused a lot of tourists... we had Gareth Southgate station for a while the last time England got to the Euro finals.

Euston is great at 6 in the morning, I would get my filthy but fast Class 350 to Watford Junction. The trains, like the station could have done with a deep level clean. The station on a Saturday lunchtime is hell. The grim bus station, angry and cold looking piazza to walk across, added to the state of futility as I attempted to decipher the confusing array of tickets when I tried to get to Birmingham International back in the last week of June. I used to fix the Swecoin ticket machines on the old Atos system, so have been used to the chaos of the tiny, cramped office which had all the frenzy of McDonalds at lunchtime. Staff everywhere as you desperately try to rebuild a jammed ticket printer, or aging computer...

Train only went as Rugby before being bundled onto a 56 reg borderline MOT pass Volvo single deck bus the rest of the way on a white knuckle ride through some of Warwickshire's tiniest country lanes.

I can't see Euston being smartened up or made more pleasant any time soon, I hoped GBR will eventually simplify the array of tickets as it's bewildering and expensive, and not the greatest of experiences...

 

[Tezza1978]

As a regular of user of Euston (essentially at least twice a week , arriving into London/leaving London on the following day or 2 days after) the turning off of the enormous ad board is progress, but only a small improvement. The real issues remain:

• the ridiculous late calling of Avanti trains to onboard, often giving passengers only 5 minutes which isn't nearly enough for elderly people/people with luggage or young children/disabled people etc, Hence the "Euston scrum" happening.....we don't all have RTT like myself
• the surly and rude Avanti staff (have made a formal complaint regarding one of them (who still works the gateline now!) - another TL level person who I and my missus saw openly lie to a passenger who asked if this platform was for his upcoming train and was told "this isnt your train - go back to the concourse"- when it was his train!)
• the absolutely disgusting men's toilets (and I can see the ludicrously long queue for the ladies also who are probably equally as bad). Have seen posts on X that apparently a rebuild of these is in the pipeline
• Poor layout of the station including the Burger King in precisely the wrong place -- relocate it
• pathetic amount of seating, my elderly parents regularly have to stand the whole time when arranging to meet me at the station for a catch up drink when on my travels
• the stupid enforced station exit from Euston underground escalators into the rain. Utterly stupid.
• the unpleasant nature of the outside concourse (as another poster has noted - put a roof on the whole thing, stop people smoking there as a result, build a proper separate smoking area, get BTP to do more patrols etc). Also get Camden council to do some outreach work to help solve the homelessness problem at the station, a few "regulars" need community mental health services and proper support

Lots needed to be done, along with the new HS2 station needing to be built in full, along with the planned tunnel to Euston Square if at all possible............

 

[Steve14]

As a regular of user of Euston (essentially at least twice a week , arriving into London/leaving London on the following day or 2 days after) the turning off of the enormous ad board is progress, but only a small improvement. The real issues remain:

• the ridiculous late calling of Avanti trains to onboard, often giving passengers only 5 minutes which isn't nearly enough for elderly people/people with luggage or young children/disabled people etc, Hence the "Euston scrum" happening.....we don't all have RTT like myself
• the surly and rude Avanti staff (have made a formal complaint regarding one of them (who still works the gateline now!) - another TL level person who I and my missus saw openly lie to a passenger who asked if this platform was for his upcoming train and was told "this isnt your train - go back to the concourse"- when it was his train!)
• the absolutely disgusting men's toilets (and I can see the ludicrously long queue for the ladies also who are probably equally as bad). Have seen posts on X that apparently a rebuild of these is in the pipeline
• Poor layout of the station including the Burger King in precisely the wrong place -- relocate it
• pathetic amount of seating, my elderly parents regularly have to stand the whole time when arranging to meet me at the station for a catch up drink when on my travels
• the stupid enforced station exit from Euston underground escalators into the rain. Utterly stupid.
• the unpleasant nature of the outside concourse (as another poster has noted - put a roof on the whole thing, stop people smoking there as a result, build a proper separate smoking area, get BTP to do more patrols etc). Also get Camden council to do some outreach work to help solve the homelessness problem at the station, a few "regulars" need community mental health services and proper support

Lots needed to be done, along with the new HS2 station needing to be built in full, along with the planned tunnel to Euston Square if at all possible............

Are there any diagrams for what the proposed station looks like?

 

[Andrew1395]

As a regular of user of Euston (essentially at least twice a week , arriving into London/leaving London on the following day or 2 days after) the turning off of the enormous ad board is progress, but only a small improvement. The real issues remain:

• the ridiculous late calling of Avanti trains to onboard, often giving passengers only 5 minutes which isn't nearly enough for elderly people/people with luggage or young children/disabled people etc, Hence the "Euston scrum" happening.....we don't all have RTT like myself
• the surly and rude Avanti staff (have made a formal complaint regarding one of them (who still works the gateline now!) - another TL level person who I and my missus saw openly lie to a passenger who asked if this platform was for his upcoming train and was told "this isnt your train - go back to the concourse"- when it was his train!)
• the absolutely disgusting men's toilets (and I can see the ludicrously long queue for the ladies also who are probably equally as bad). Have seen posts on X that apparently a rebuild of these is in the pipeline
• Poor layout of the station including the Burger King in precisely the wrong place -- relocate it
• pathetic amount of seating, my elderly parents regularly have to stand the whole time when arranging to meet me at the station for a catch up drink when on my travels
• the stupid enforced station exit from Euston underground escalators into the rain. Utterly stupid.
• the unpleasant nature of the outside concourse (as another poster has noted - put a roof on the whole thing, stop people smoking there as a result, build a proper separate smoking area, get BTP to do more patrols etc). Also get Camden council to do some outreach work to help solve the homelessness problem at the station, a few "regulars" need community mental health services and proper support

Lots needed to be done, along with the new HS2 station needing to be built in full, along with the planned tunnel to Euston Square if at all possible............

I think a lot if that existed in 1987 when I started working at Euston. The mechanical solari had just been replaced by the (then) claimed worlds biggest LCD display. The gents was the ladies and vice versa. Burger King was Casey Jones, the homeless problem was at a level that Michael Heseltine had an all agency meeting at the station in the early 1990s. The only real difference is the access to the main escalator to the underground was not from outside. There was no mezzanine, and of course trains were advertised 20 minutes before departure (subject to inbound arrivals).

 

[FOH]

I think the big thing that changed was 20 years ago the Senior Conductor would do a full ticket check upon leaving Euston and hence you could freely walk down to the platform once train preparation was complete. Nowadays you have a additional level of revenue check to organise so another duck to line up in a row when everything works.

 

[MPW]

If the ad screens can't immediately be re-purposed for departures etc., in the meantime they should be set to display soothing colours, or puppies and kittens playing, particularly during times of disruption. And I'm only half joking; any small reduction in passenger stress levels would potentially result in less stressed behaviour.

Or AI-generated image of the old Euston station. Historical preservation groups would welcome the sensitive recreation of the historical monument.

 

[Wolfie]

The SoS understood the political vibes, and how HATED the advertising board had become when people were crushed in the Euston scrum. It's an easy political win.

Sometimes the rail professionals, whether Network Rail, the franchise holders or before them British Rail are too set in their ways, and the junior ministers too worried about overriding the professionals.

You also have Minister Hendy marking his own homework as Chief Executive Hendy....

 

[DarloRich]

NR will need ad revenue, and you can still sell ads alongside displays you know people are looking at.

That is something posters here overlook. The problem being the "alongside" ads will earn less revenue ( I expect) than full screen adverts. Hopefully someone in government will make up the balance as less ad revenue means less money to spend on the track.

That will be one of the reasons the screens were put in. It is also why the Mezzanine went in: More revenue

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is something posters here overlook. The problem being the "alongside" ads will earn less revenue ( I expect) than full screen adverts. Hopefully someone in government will make up the balance as less ad revenue means less money to spend on the track.

There were previously "alongside" ads, there was a fairly unobtrusive TV format ad board at each end of the main departure board.

That will be one of the reasons the screens were put in. It is also why the Mezzanine went in: More revenue

I don't have a problem with the mezzanine, it keeps retail out of the way of the concourse and isn't an entirely unpleasant place to sit. The steps down by WH Smuggs Reading Room are in the way of entrance/exit flow, though, and could do with being moved.