Euston overcrowding

[Bletchleyite]

They aren't waiting for the unit to arrive. They display it when the last service leaves, which is pretty sensible given how people act these days. If you advertised a train at a terminus on a platform before the train before left, I can guarantee you'd end up with a significant amount of people on that train before.

Given that most travel on WMT likely isn't on Advances because the walk-up fares are such good value (and don't exist at all for some journeys), that doesn't really matter. If people delay themselves by getting on a later train, tough, they get there half an hour later. If they get the train before, fine, they get there earlier!

Platform suppression on local services is not even a thing outside London* and it doesn't need to be on local services anywhere aside from where splitting and joining is taking place.

* Crikey, at Manchester Piccadilly there are sometimes 2 or even in disruption 3 London services advertised at once and people cope.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I can recall - though not in exact detail - that in the later days of B.R. InterCity the routes with a close headway (London to Birmingham and to Nottingham certainly) were marketed as 'InterCity Shuttles' where there was always a train available for boarding at the originating station. 'Available for boarding 30 minutes before departure time' was, I think, the offer.

 

[Benjwri]

Given that most travel on WMT likely isn't on Advances because the walk-up fares are such good value (and don't exist at all for some journeys), that doesn't really matter. If people delay themselves by getting on a later train, tough, they get there half an hour later. If they get the train before, fine, they get there earlier!

Platform suppression on local services is not even a thing outside London* and it doesn't need to be on local services anywhere aside from where splitting and joining is taking place.

* Crikey, at Manchester Piccadilly there are sometimes 2 or even in disruption 3 London services advertised at once and people cope.

If those people can differentiate between two trains advertised on the same platform (Given what even you have said about splitting trains, all you have to do is watch it when it happens is say Paddington, I think they can't, but regardless), those people can also use their head and get on the earlier train intentionally, and therefore anyone not going to the platform is doing so because they are waiting for the next train intentionally. As soon as the train before leaves they are told their platform, with plenty of time. The majority of people won't even have arrived for the train when it's advertised. You are avoiding having excess people waiting on the platform for no reason, I see no good reason to show it, you aren't avoiding a rush.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If those people can differentiate between two trains advertised on the same platform (Given what even you have said about splitting trains, all you have to do is watch it when it happens is say Paddington, I think they can't, but regardless), those people can also use their head and get on the earlier train intentionally, and therefore anyone not going to the platform is doing so because they are waiting for the next train intentionally. As soon as the train before leaves they are told their platform, with plenty of time. The majority of people won't even have arrived for the train when it's advertised. You are avoiding having excess people waiting on the platform for no reason, I see no good reason to show it, you aren't avoiding a rush.

Fair point if they use the same platform, I was going to say they mostly don't but having looked at today they often do during the day. (edited)

However, where they use different ones there seems to be no reason not to put them all up. Some prefer the second train out than cramming on, and sometimes the stock is already there if it's just come off Camden Bank.

Certainly there should not be a situation where there is a WMT train at the platform with the path in the signalling system (i.e. bold on Realtime Trains) and that train not advertised. Though I would say "Boarding" shouldn't go on the screen until the doors have been released, so people can make an informed choice as to their actions.

 

[duffield]

Euston update

https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1850949207714087411

Immediate reaction: So, why didn't they conduct this 'trial' years ago? Why does the transport minister even have to get involved at this sort of level for this to happen now? I mean, well done to her for finally getting something done, but she really shouldn't *have to* get involved at this sort of level.

 

[Benjwri]

It is unusual for two consecutive Birminghams, Trings or MKCs to use the same platform. I can see the point if they did, though.

Surely that furthers my point though? You don't want people getting on a train to the totally wrong destination, which is potentially overtaken before they can change to the correct one, and therefore being significantly delayed. The time it takes for the last train to clear the platform, the next to get the route, arrive, and the driver to change ends is ample time for absolutely anyone to make it to the platform in no rush at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely that furthers my point though? You don't want people getting on a train to the totally wrong destination, which is potentially overtaken before they can change to the correct one, and therefore being significantly delayed. The time it takes for the last train to clear the platform, the next to get the route, arrive, and the driver to change ends is ample time for absolutely anyone to make it to the platform in no rush at all.

When it's all working nicely and they're a neat half hour apart, fair enough. In disruption taking the second train out is often prudent, and it'd be nice for that to be shown, as often there'll be minutes between them.

I don't think it's an issue, though, like you do, because near enough every station outside London does not suppress platform numbers and people aren't getting on the wrong trains en masse (aside from deliberately trying it on). They also didn't do it en masse back in the early 2000s when Silverlink platform numbers were not suppressed at all - they were even on a sheet of paper in the Tube station by the exit! They don't do it at Manchester Piccadilly, at Liverpool Lime St, at Birmingham New St etc where platforms are not suppressed either.

I'm going to London tomorrow, I'll see how it works. I suspect it'll be better even if not perfect.

 

[alex17595]

It didn't work very well this morning when the conductor had to kick everyone off the 0848 arrival from Birmingham so he could lock it up. The previous train had been cancelled so there were many people already waiting 25 mins before departure.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Surely that furthers my point though? You don't want people getting on a train to the totally wrong destination, which is potentially overtaken before they can change to the correct one, and therefore being significantly delayed. The time it takes for the last train to clear the platform, the next to get the route, arrive, and the driver to change ends is ample time for absolutely anyone to make it to the platform in no rush at all.

At Rugby, and for that matter many other stations on the West Coast Main line, consecutive trains for very different destinations depart consecutively from one platform. I wonder why passengers on Rugby platform 1 for Manchester avoid boarding a Glasgow or a Birmingham service there, but would find it impossible to distinguish between trains at Euston?

 

[thomalex]

Immediate reaction: So, why didn't they conduct this 'trial' years ago? Why does the transport minister even have to get involved at this sort of level for this to happen now? I mean, well done to her for finally getting something done, but she really shouldn't *have to* get involved at this sort of level.

Because incompetent people have been in charge sadly.

Hopefully we can now see some attention now to the two lodges outside which are a complete state at the moment. Over 150 years old and at the gateway from the capital to the largest cities in the country and this is what greets you. A complete embarrassment.

GZICkwqWIAASrX6

x.com

x.com

 

[Benjwri]

At Rugby, and for that matter many other stations on the West Coast Main line, consecutive trains for very different destinations depart consecutively from one platform. I wonder why passengers on Rugby platform 1 for Manchester avoid boarding a Glasgow or a Birmingham service there, but would find it impossible to distinguish between trains at Euston?

Because people treat terminal stations similarly to airports, thinking when it's advertised the train is ready, or at least the next one. At the very least because there is a screen telling them the order of the trains very clearly, something there is not at Euston.

Also just because they assume a train that turns up around the same time as theirs is the one they want, which obviously isn't the case in a terminus. You jsut have to look at the disputes forum to see what happens when trains are close together and people have advances...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because people treat terminal stations similarly to airports, thinking when it's advertised the train is ready, or at least the next one. At the very least because there is a screen telling them the order of the trains very clearly, something there is not at Euston.

The train panels on the displays are in order of departure time from left to right, then the "further departures" in that order from top to bottom. Just like they've always been.

Also you can put "Boarding" on the one that's actually got the doors open.

 

[Benjwri]

The train panels on the displays are in order of departure time from left to right, then the "further departures" in that order from top to bottom. Just like they've always been.

Also you can put "Boarding" on the one that's actually got the doors open.

By this I meant the ones actually on the platform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

By this I meant the ones actually on the platform.

They aren't at Manchester Piccadilly or Liverpool Lime St either, they just show the next train.

 

[TheSmiths82]

I got my Manchester train back from Euston on Saturday. One of my best experiences of Euston for a while, they let us on the train 25 minutes before departure, but they didn't announce it on the PA, the screens just quietly told us it was ready to board. A few of slowly walked up to the train, and I assume they would have been an announcement once they knew a few people were already on the train, to reduce the amount of people doing the Euston run. My train also left 1 minute early, this is allowed?

However the toilets were an utter disgrace, the worst I have seen in any station in the UK or in Europe. Many cubicle doors were missing, around half of the dryers were out of order and many sinks had out of order signs too. All the cubicles were covered in graffiti. All these things are simple fixes, why had the station been left to fall apart? Compared to nearby Kings Cross and my favourite St Pancras it was like stepping into another country.

The advertising screen being turned has also made a difference, the station felt more pleasant without the constant flashing lights. It must have been very uncomfortable for some autistic people. If the screen is turned on again and used for information purposes I hope they use a black background and note white.

 

[sh24]

Immediate reaction: So, why didn't they conduct this 'trial' years ago? Why does the transport minister even have to get involved at this sort of level for this to happen now? I mean, well done to her for finally getting something done, but she really shouldn't *have to* get involved at this sort of level.

Cultural change has to come from the top, so she's set a very clear mark about passengers actually being the purpose rather than an inconvenience. Pour encourager les autres without actually guillotining anyone.

 

[DelW]

Yesterday I caught a delayed Avanti Pendolino from Manchester Piccadilly - the incoming train didn't arrive until about 5 minutes after the nominal departure time. Despite that, passengers weren't corralled on the concourse, instead the platform number was put up on the departure screens before the original departure time, so passengers went through the gateline and distributed themselves along the platform. When the train arrived, they found the right doors, let passengers off, then boarded quickly and quietly. The train left about 15 minutes late, so turn-round had taken about 10 minutes, including boarding assistance passengers.

If Piccadilly can work like that, why can't Euston, with the same trains and operator?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This morning there was minor disruption and the proposals were not being kept to. Will see what it is like this evening.

 

[Trainbike46]

Given that most travel on WMT likely isn't on Advances because the walk-up fares are such good value (and don't exist at all for some journeys), that doesn't really matter. If people delay themselves by getting on a later train, tough, they get there half an hour later. If they get the train before, fine, they get there earlier!

Platform suppression on local services is not even a thing outside London* and it doesn't need to be on local services anywhere aside from where splitting and joining is taking place.

* Crikey, at Manchester Piccadilly there are sometimes 2 or even in disruption 3 London services advertised at once and people cope.

They're suppressing them a lot less than they were though, so it is a massive improvement.

It didn't work very well this morning when the conductor had to kick everyone off the 0848 arrival from Birmingham so he could lock it up. The previous train had been cancelled so there were many people already waiting 25 mins before departure.

That could be avoided by simply not locking the train up, and letting passengers on board - which isn't uncommon elsewhere

 

[alex17595]

They're suppressing them a lot less than they were though, so it is a massive improvement.

That could be avoided by simply not locking the train up, and letting passengers on board - which isn't uncommon elsewhere

There's a few trains where they need to be locked up so drivers can do some tests in the cab.

Most of them the doors stay open.

 

[jackdoyle]

Further down the the full press release re: more potential changes. Interesting how the first point is worded.
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/westm...w-boarding-processes-at-london-euston-3351434

While the future of the advertising board remains under review, rail industry partners discussed its potential to be used for passenger information. Other actions being explored include making all the information desks more visible together in one place, the further expansion of concourse waiting space and a full review of all station signage.

 

[DarloRich]

However the toilets were an utter disgrace, the worst I have seen in any station in the UK or in Europe. Many cubicle doors were missing, around half of the dryers were out of order and many sinks had out of order signs too. All the cubicles were covered in graffiti. All these things are simple fixes, why had the station been left to fall apart? Compared to nearby Kings Cross and my favourite St Pancras it was like stepping into another country.

Many people, including posters here complained that you had to pay to spend a penny. This is what happens when you remove the charge.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Many people, including posters here complained that you had to pay to spend a penny. This is what happens when you remove the charge.

There is the halfway option of making them available only to ticket holders for free, with other users paying.

 

[Trainbike46]

Many people, including posters here complained that you had to pay to spend a penny. This is what happens when you remove the charge.

Compared to other stations nearby (KGX, STP, even Waterloo) that all have free loos, the toilets at Euston are worse.

In my view, the biggest problem with the Euston toilets is that the ladies' isn't big enough, judging by the queues outside them I regularly see. The gent's at least doesn't have queues and most things work (though I never use the cubicles).

 

[TheSmiths82]

Many people, including posters here complained that you had to pay to spend a penny. This is what happens when you remove the charge.

The toilets at both Kings Cross and St Pancras are decent though. Even at Piccadilly they are in far better condition despite it being in one of the more dodgy parts of the city centre. At Euston it just seems to be down to a lack of maintenance. Dryers not working for months on end is not due to vandalism it is just due the lack of maintenance.

 

[The exile]

I can recall - though not in exact detail - that in the later days of B.R. InterCity the routes with a close headway (London to Birmingham and to Nottingham certainly) were marketed as 'InterCity Shuttles' where there was always a train available for boarding at the originating station. 'Available for boarding 30 minutes before departure time' was, I think, the offer.

Think Paddington had a “guarantee” you could board your IC train 15 minutes before departure.

 

[BAFRA77]

There is the halfway option of making them available only to ticket holders for free, with other users paying.

Can just see the Gateline Toilet Staff (heaven forbid) stopping people saying - "Sorry Sir - this isn't valid for the toilets as it's midday and you've got an Off-Peak ticket"

 

[geoffk]

At German and Swiss stations, the platform numbers are PRINTED on the departure sheets. We used to do that in Britain years ago, when there were far fewer trains and stock was less intensively used (i.e. not cleaned in the platform before being sent out again).

 

[Tetchytyke]

Many people, including posters here complained that you had to pay to spend a penny. This is what happens when you remove the charge.

Euston toilets were a disgrace even when they were charging 30p a go.

Similarly the toilets at St Pancras are free and aren't like that at all.

Hopefully we can now see some attention now to the two lodges outside which are a complete state at the moment.

Is the other one not still the Euston Tap?

 

[DarloRich]

Similarly the toilets at St Pancras are free and aren't like that at all.

but why? what is different there?

Even at Piccadilly they are in far better condition despite it being in one of the more dodgy parts of the city centre.

they aren't as nice as they used to be!