Evaluating the risks: is it safer for key workers to travel by car, than by train?

[peteb]

Moderator note: Split from

LNER Considering Requiring Passengers to Check-in Before Travel

Those passengers want to book an InterCity journey like a plane or coach. They don't want the complexity of Permitted Routes, TOC restrictions etc. The presence of Advance tickets caters for this market.

www.railforums.co.uk

There have been reports of over-zealous responses, but when I use that phrase I don't limit it to railway staff but expand it to BTP & even the public.

And whilst I'm sure far quieter trains is a lovely experience, its not sustainable, nor frankly is it desirable under a Conservative government that will soon be looking for deep public spending cuts. The sight of half or more empty Azumas whizzing up and down the ECML will soon get the attention of the Civil Servants that will be tasked to make savings, especially as LNER is a government owned company.

So one of two things will happen, either ticket prices will shoot up, or LNER will start a period of "restructuring" their network, trimming off service after service because they are no longer financially viable. Its a classic case of be careful what you wish for. So my suggestion is enjoy it while you can, because they will either have to start putting fare paying punters in those empty seats, or there won't be as many trains with seats for you to choose from.

I'd love to use the train and certainly dont want to lose them, but at the end of the day ( as a key worker) I'm no good to anyone if I've contracted a virus travelling in a crowded environment so its car for me for the foreseeable future. Yes I can catch it anywhere else but given I do have a choice I'll exercise caution. But I feel for those who have no choice but to travel by train and sometimes at short notice. They do need a walk up system and reservation free travel as plans change and not everyone has internet eg a lot of
elderly people.

 

[williamn]

I'd love to use the train and certainly dont want to lose them, but at the end of the day ( as a key worker) I'm no good to anyone if I've contracted a virus travelling in a crowded environment so its car for me for the foreseeable future. Yes I can catch it anywhere else but given I do have a choice I'll exercise caution. But I feel for those who have no choice but to travel by train and sometimes at short notice. They do need a walk up system and reservation free travel as plans change and not everyone has internet eg a lot of
elderly people.

A car remains much more dangerous than taking the train, even factoring in Covid.

 

[TUC]

A car remains much more dangerous than taking the train, even factoring in Covid.

Only in a very theoretical manner, disconnected from real life. The safer you drive, the much lower the risk of an accident.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Only in a very theoretical manner, disconnected from real life. The safer you drive, the much lower the risk of an accident.

You can certainly reduce risk by driving safely and defensively, but train travel is still safer than even the safest driver, because even the safest driver can come up against a negligent driver who takes an action that leads to an accident the safe driver can't avoid.

 

[Ianno87]

You can certainly reduce risk by driving safely and defensively, but train travel is still safer than even the safest driver, because even the safest driver can come up against a negligent driver who takes an action that leads to an accident the safe driver can't avoid.

And any driver (even "safe" ones) is a human being capable of making errors and bad judgements.

 

[yorkie]

A car remains much more dangerous than taking the train, even factoring in Covid.

Agreed. The average age for Covid-related deaths is around 82; the average age for car crash related deaths will clearly be vastly lower than that.

I know of several young people who have been killed in road related deaths in recent years (just yesterday I received another notification to say the brother of a young person had been killed), yet my great auntie in her 90s survived Covid (which the majority of people in their 90s do).

Trains are very safe in relative terms.

 

[yorksrob]

Only in a very theoretical manner, disconnected from real life. The safer you drive, the much lower the risk of an accident.

You're still at the mercy of your fellow motorists, however safely you drive.

I feel very safe as a train passenger. Much moreso than than when trying to negotiate towns and cities (and even country roads) that are blighted by traffic.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Trains are very safe in relative terms.

There has been 1 passenger fatality in the last 13.5 years on the railway, during which time there were an estimated 20 billion passenger journeys.

On that basis, the risk of a fatal train accident (as a passenger) is 0.000000005%.

Based on an average journey length of 8.4 miles and the current road rate of 5.25 fatalities per billion miles, the risk of a fatal accident per car journey would be 1 in 22.7 million, or 0.00000441%.

This is still a very small percentage, and these statistics do not account for safer drivers, the use of motorways vs country roads and other factors which alter accident/fatality risk.

But they show that, on average, the train is 881 times safer than the car.

 

[Ianno87]

Only in a very theoretical manner, disconnected from real life. The safer you drive, the much lower the risk of an accident.

The only way to absolutely stay safe in a car is not to turn the ignition in the first place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The only way to absolutely stay safe in a car is not to turn the ignition in the first place.

And be careful not to knock the handbrake!

 

[Jamiescott1]

Are we still using the term "key worker" now that everybody is back at work ?

 

[Huntergreed]

Are we still using the term "key worker" now that everybody is back at work ?

I’ve never liked the term “key worker”, it makes those who aren’t in the industries seemed “key” feel inferior to those who are and it suggests that everyone is on the front line, dealing with unimaginable hardship like the (limited) number of NHS staff who were doing just this.

Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate every job and think it’s important to get rid of the stigma surrounding certain jobs, but this term just doesn’t agree with me.

 

[talldave]

Around here (London), the guys replacing kerbstones to introduce a cycle lane are key workers, according to the signs they've put up. Perhaps we're meant to clap them on a Thursday??

 

[cactustwirly]

It's also worth noting that cars are still very safe, if you're involved in an accident cars have numerous safety features that will protect you.

 

[AdamWW]

It's also worth noting that cars are still very safe, if you're involved in an accident cars have numerous safety features that will protect you.

Trains are also a lot safer for people interacting with them than cars are.

Cars are well designed to protect the inhabitants - less so anyone they collide with who isn't also in a car.

 

[scrapy]

It should be noted that many stats for car accident fatalities also include those pedestrians hit by cars. If you travel by train you are still likely to be a pedestrian at some point in your journey. So whilst the train is still a lot safer it's not always as comparably safer as the stats initially suggest.

 

[yorksrob]

It's also worth noting that cars are still very safe, if you're involved in an accident cars have numerous safety features that will protect you.

Providing it's not a HGV that slams into you !

It should be noted that many stats for car accident fatalities also include those pedestrians hit by cars. If you travel by train you are still likely to be a pedestrian at some point in your journey. So whilst the train is still a lot safer it's not always as comparably safer as the stats initially suggest.

Although whilst there is a safety risk in the walk to the station, there are also health advantages.

 

[jtuk]

Are we still using the term "key worker" now that everybody is back at work ?

Everyone apart from those already laid off, and those still furloughed that will eventually be laid off

 

[birchesgreen]

The only way to absolutely stay safe in a car is not to turn the ignition in the first place.

Well unless your stationary car gets hit by someone else's car. I have heard of someone (well a friend of a friend of a friend's cousin's babysitter or something) who was badly injured when they were having a kip in their car parked on the road and they were hit by a van.

 

[AdamWW]

It should be noted that many stats for car accident fatalities also include those pedestrians hit by cars. If you travel by train you are still likely to be a pedestrian at some point in your journey. So whilst the train is still a lot safer it's not always as comparably safer as the stats initially suggest.

That's something I hadn't thought of.

I think (could be wrong) that as a pedestrian you generally have more control over your own safety than when driving a vehicle, in that you can adopt a risk averse policy to crossing roads in a way you can't really as a driver. Of course in some cases that policy would result in you spending all day on the wrong side of the road...

I had a very interesting demonstration of the different safety culture on and off the railway a few years ago, when a Network Rail van was parked fully on the pavement outside my local station forcing anybody coming from one direction intending to catch a train into a busy road, unless they went a long way out of their way and likely missed the train.

 

[james60059]

If it's my car, or CrossCountry Trains, then my car wins every time.

 

[Tom B]

Something of a generalisation, but from experience : I found that the phrase 'key workers' was increasingly likely to be used, the less of a "key" worker the person truly is. Doctors and nurses would rarely use such a phrase; an administrative clerk for a firm who supplies toilet roll to a range of clients including occasionally some hospitals would blast it out at the first opportunity.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Something of a generalisation, but from experience : I found that the phrase 'key workers' was increasingly likely to be used, the less of a "key" worker the person truly is. Doctors and nurses would rarely use such a phrase; an administrative clerk for a firm who supplies toilet roll to a range of clients including occasionally some hospitals would blast it out at the first opportunity.

True.

Yesterday at East Croydon tram stop I saw someone wearing a McColl's uniform and they had an badge on, which looked like an official McColl's badge, saying "I am a key worker"...

 

[greyman42]

If it's my car, or CrossCountry Trains, then my car wins every time.

Yes, and you don't have to wear a soggy mask and listen to over the top announcements and threats after every station that you stop at.
Apart from longer mainline journeys where the train still wins on journey time, the car is now a decent option.

 

[221129]

If it's my car, or CrossCountry Trains, then my car wins every time.

But that wouldnt be based on grounds of safety of course.

 

[bramling]

Everyone apart from those already laid off, and those still furloughed that will eventually be laid off

The “key workers” were forgotten ages ago. Once the awful clapping finished that was it. Not a jot of thanks.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

The clapping was so embarrassing
One good thing maybe: high-fiving is no longer allowed for reasons of hygiene

 

[adc82140]

In the hospital staff car park this week I saw two cars carrying NHS bumper stickers with the "S" made to look like the Superman "S". As a fellow NHS worker two things came to mind: what do they want, a medal?, and why not just have a sticker that says "look at how great I am". It made me very cross. I cannot stand the attitude of some health workers that think the whole world owes them something. These days we are paid reasonably well, and there is always the option to resign if you feel you're not getting enough reward for what you do.

End of shift rant over!

 

[bramling]

In the hospital staff car park this week I saw two cars carrying NHS bumper stickers with the "S" made to look like the Superman "S". As a fellow NHS worker two things came to mind: what do they want, a medal?, and why not just have a sticker that says "look at how great I am". It made me very cross. I cannot stand the attitude of some health workers that think the whole world owes them something. These days we are paid reasonably well, and there is always the option to resign if you feel you're not getting enough reward for what you do.

End of shift rant over!

I suspect many would settle for not having people yell abuse in their direction when being quite deservedly given priority access to places like supermarkets during the earliest stages of the lockdown, as happened repeatedly at my local Sainsbury’s!

 

[43066]

I suspect many would settle for not having people yell abuse in their direction when being quite deservedly given priority access to places like supermarkets during the earliest stages of the lockdown, as happened repeatedly at my local Sainsbury’s!

Quite. That kind of thing really does give the lie to the idea that we are “all in this together”. As does the fact that swathes of the population have been paid by the government to sit idle, while others have had to continue working throughout!

On topic for the thread, “key workers” (a ridiculous term which has been drawn so widely as to be utterly meaningless) should be encouraged to use public transport wherever possible. I must say I disagree with the thread title: the risk associated with Covid is negligible, and lower than being killed in a car accident etc. in many cases, so talking in terms of “safety” is ridiculous in the extreme.