EWR, Universal and Wixams

[DarloRich]

Nope. Can't turn back at the high level towards Bedford.

can you not? I must read layout plans more closely! thanks!

 

[Zomboid]

Though it would be considerably simpler to make that possible than to demolish and resite the depot to permit a north curve.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though it would be considerably simpler to make that possible than to demolish and resite the depot to permit a north curve.

You can just turn back in platform 5 or 6. 6 needs a lift but it would probably be cheaper to fit one than rebuild a depot. 5 is available for most of the day though and generally if assistance is requested the train is put into there.

However, the time penalty of a reversal is fairly significant. Having said that, it would be good if the experiment of running the Marston Vale to MKC with a reversal could be done, as P2A was allegedly built for! I think it would make the line considerably more popular.

 

[Sorcerer]

There is not going to be a connection to Universal from Milton keynes central. Bletchley yes, but not MKC.

Considering that Milton Keynes Central is more of a hub station than Bletchley, I would have thought a connection would be a no-brainer, especially since the park has now been approved. I know that I'm projecting a lot my own decisions on the general public, but having that extra connection at Bletchley after getting off at Milton Keynes even though it's just one short stop away feels more inconvenient. I'd have less changes just going through London and making a ten minute walk from Euston to St Pancras.

The Midland Main Line is busy, yes, (for both EMl and Thameslink), but there is an awful lot of spare capacity at off peak times. And in the peak, the TL trains are not busy north of Luton. And the peak flow is southbound morning, northbound evening. Universal will have to prepare a detailed Transport Assement as part of their planning application, covering the transport requirements during construction, operations, for employees and visitors. This will no doubt be several weighty reports, several hundred (and probably over a thousand) pages long.

Very well. I will concede to having underestimated the capacity of the Thameslink line for passengers coming from the south and through London if they wanted to visit the park, especially since EMR is also an option for those living or staying in the centre. For those coming from the north though better options are most certainly needed.

I agree - and i think with some quite minor ( in the grand scheme) changes this can be encouraged.

Having put a bit more thought into it, I suppose suggesting the possibility of a new line might've been a bit of early day overthinking on my half. But I'm glad we could come to an agreement on something in the end at least.

 

[Zomboid]

I don't know how available platform 2 is at MKC, but current timings give the MKC-OXF pretty much constant occupation of 2A, so any other services up there would need a different platform (or to displace the Oxford trains).

A dwell at Bletchley is going to be more attractive than a change at Bletchley, and is a much more realistic proposition than demolishing the depot and some of the surrounding buildings to build a curve.

 

[flitwickbeds]

On Thameslink between London and Bedford we have 12 (?) car trains running 6 times an hour. Wiki tells me a class 700/2 has 666 seats (52F, 614S) plus 1088 standees. That is just under 4000 seats an hour!

Just 4tph to Bedford on Thameslink, assuming you mean the off peak (and non-engineering weekend) patterns. Some peak hours have more but the stopping pattern varies (making the extras 'fast' trains which skip some stops) and is only on the peak flows, so southbound in the morning and northbound in the evening.

It would be great if we could get the Denbigh North Chord on planning gain. Connect the MV to MKC and the whole game changes.

Yes, connection between MV and MKC would absolutely be a game changer.

 

[edwin_m]

Just 4tph to Bedford on Thameslink, assuming you mean the off peak (and non-engineering weekend) patterns. Some peak hours have more but the stopping pattern varies (making the extras 'fast' trains which skip some stops) and is only on the peak flows, so southbound in the morning and northbound in the evening.

How many other places get "just" 4TPH of 12 car length with plenty of spare capacity off peak?

 

[cle]

It's very fortunate - it's a great service. Long fixed trains, counter-peak, 4tph and goes to several Central London stations, plus two airports. Really doesn't need anything adding, on the TL side.

 

[flitwickbeds]

How many other places get "just" 4TPH of 12 car length with plenty of spare capacity off peak?

Oh, quite agree, but correcting the previous poster who said it was 6tph.

Re-reading also, I believe it alternates (especially at weekends) between 12 and 8 car trains, so the 4000 seats an hour is well off.

 

[Bald Rick]

Oh, quite agree, but correcting the previous poster who said it was 6tph.

Re-reading also, I believe it alternates (especially at weekends) between 12 and 8 car trains, so the 4000 seats an hour is well off.

No, it’s booked 12s all day in the working week, with the occiasional 8 at the beginning and end of the day, also on a couple of the peak only diagrams (when there are 6-7 trains each hour) and of course if a 12 is substituted with an 8.

I don’t know what the eeekend situation is, but it would be straightforward to make them all 12s if they are not now.

What is the case is that after the evening peak it drops to only 2 tph Thameslinks north of Luton. That will need to go back to 4tph.

 

[Zomboid]

What is the case is that after the evening peak it drops to only 2 tph Thameslinks north of Luton. That will need to go back to 4tph

Why? If we're talking theme parks then they're not generally open deep into the evenings, and if they are then they're not at their busiest. Mostly people are heading home around 5 if they arrived in the morning.

And will the other developments in the area demand a doubling of the existing capacity?

 

[flitwickbeds]

What is the case is that after the evening peak it drops to only 2 tph Thameslinks north of Luton. That will need to go back to 4tph.

Just checked and you're right. When did that change? Been a few years since I used weekday services in the evening, but I did it regularly for 15 years before COVID. 2tph to Flitwick (and therefore Bedford) only used to start after about 2230.

Why? If we're talking theme parks then they're not generally open deep into the evenings, and if they are then they're not at their busiest. Mostly people are heading home around 5 if they arrived in the morning.

And will the other developments in the area demand a doubling of the existing capacity?

Universal is expected to be more like Disney and have lots of evening entertainment, firework displays, etc - and therefore is likely to be open much later into the evening than existing UK theme parks which, unfortunately, now seem to be largely open only 10am-5pm most days.

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Another thing to consider is skip-stopping. Leagrave, Harlington and Flitwick (and, presumably, Wixams when it opens) always are, and always have been, the first choice of stops to skip to make up time. I've been waiting over an hour as 4 trains in a row are cancelled only at these stops, and merrily sail through the stations to get the timetable back on track. I understand and accept that skip-stopping needs to happen, but it is always these stations which are effected (along with Harpenden). There may need to be a rethink about recovery strategies if/when Wixams becomes a major destination.

 

[Bald Rick]

Why? If we're talking theme parks then they're not generally open deep into the evenings, and if they are then they're not at their busiest. Mostly people are heading home around 5 if they arrived in the morning.

This is not going to be a theme park like Chessington or Thorpe Park. This will be like Universal Studios in the US, where in summer and at popular holiday times the park is open until 2100. And staff will be working well past then.

Just checked and you're right. When did that change? Been a few years since I used weekday services in the evening, but I did it regularly for 15 years before COVID. 2tph to Flitwick (and therefore Bedford) only used to start after about 2230.

A year or two back. Saves quite a bit of cash, and because Bedford has the Corby services the revenue loss is minimal.

Another thing to consider is skip-stopping.

Yes. I expect that after the theme park opens, Wixams will become a ‘must stop’ in most recovery plans, like Luton Aiport is.

 

[Cowley]

To avoid duplication we’ll keep the discussions to this thread from here:

New station: Wixams, Bedfordshire. How many platforms and what should the service be like?

Well, the Government and Universal have come to an agreement to build the park (Thumbs up approval from no10). https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz95n2837vgo New Universal theme park confirmed for UK A new Universal theme park will be built in the UK, the government has confirmed. It will be...

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