Ex Fyra and now ETR 700 units new life

Discussion in 'International Transport' started by Craig2601, 15 Jan 2019.

  1. Craig2601

    Craig2601 Member

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    What are these units now getting used for? I have seen they will be used on the Frecciarossa services but where will they be running and will they have the full 4 class service?
     
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  3. gazthomas

    gazthomas Established Member

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    Between Venice and Turin I think
     
  4. user1234

    user1234 Member

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    I feel sorry for the Italians getting these massive failures of a train. I wonder how long they will last before getting withdrawn and put in storage yards again.
     
  5. tasky

    tasky Member

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    Maybe a bit harsh, but you've got to laugh...

    dutch fyra danish IC4.jpg
     
  6. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    :lol: If anyone can't see that, it says: Their food may be good but... DON'T BUY TRAINS FROM ITALY graffitied on.
     
  7. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Not harsh at all. Fyra is but one example - ask the Danes about buying Iralian, including the set that went missing and was discovered to have been given away as a gift by Silvio Berlusconi....... to Colonel Gadafi.
     
  8. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    I never knew that :lol:
     
  9. TRAX

    TRAX Member

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    Here’s a little insight on AnsaldoBreda I made a few weeks ago:

     
  10. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    Here's a picture of it https://ekstrabladet.dk/flash/filmogtv/tv/article4737291.ece
     
  11. superalbs

    superalbs Established Member

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    Or simply ask us about ordering Italian. Rotten 802s from the same factory. ;)
     
  12. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Or the 1990s built Manchester and Birmingham trams. What do you mean you want them identical?
     
  13. superalbs

    superalbs Established Member

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    Lol, lucky Trenitalia!

    However, despite the fact that they're awful, I'm still very open to trying the ETR.700 trains, and will be sure to make a trip over to try them. (Can you fit crash helmets in a Ryanair bag?)
     
  14. AlexNL

    AlexNL Member

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    As far as I know, the ex-Fyra trains have not yet entered service. I've been looking on Ferrovie.it (the RailUK of Italy) and with the help of Google Translate, it looks like Trenitalia are reconsidering where to use these trains.

    The ETR700 discussion thread on Ferrovie.it, in Italian, is here: http://www.forum.ferrovie.it/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=19549

    Lots of paint wibble in that thread as well.
     
  15. user1234

    user1234 Member

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    Is it actually worth putting these trains back in to service? These trains are one of the biggest failures of a train to be built. It will cost a huge amount to get them in working order without any problems. Surely it is just better for Trenitalia to get some brand new trains instead?
     
  16. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    It is. I'm sure Trenitalia are cursing the Government's requirements to bring the rotten things into service.
     
  17. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    It’s Italy..... they’ll be used to picking up dodgy deals.
     
  18. user1234

    user1234 Member

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    Trenitalia probably got a very cheap deal on them. Nobody really wants them so i can't imagine they were sold for much. They probably wont be in service with Trenitalia for long either (unless they have done a massive amount of work to improve them and even then i still don't trust that they would manage to stay in service for long).

    Any idea what the plans are for that IC4 in Libya? Does it even still exist or was it destroyed in the war? I doubt DSB would want another one but it seems a shame for it to be sitting in Libya doing nothing. The railway line in Libya is very short (and maybe even destroyed now) so it hardly has anywhere to run.

    Its so sad to see what's happened to Libya. I visited four times while Gaddafi was in charge (before the war) and it was a lovely country. The people were so friendly and it was probably the safest country in Africa for tourists. Now the country is overrun with terrorist groups and doesn't even have a working government.

    I cant see the railway project that Gaddafi started being reinstated anytime soon unfortunately. Although if it ever does then perhaps Libya will buy all the other IC4 trains from DSB when they withdraw them.
     
  19. tasky

    tasky Member

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    Am I right in thinking this plant is now Hitachi Rail Italy, where the GWR Class 802s are being made?
     
  20. user1234

    user1234 Member

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    Yes indeed it is. It is the same exact factory. That probably explains the problems we have had with them.
     
  21. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    It's still all there. The article I posted is dated 21 March 2013.
     
  22. user1234

    user1234 Member

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    Many thanks. Good to hear that it still exists. I might go over and visit it and get some photos if Libya ever becomes safe again (which sadly seems unlikely).
     
  23. duesselmartin

    duesselmartin Member

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    Mind you, trenitalia services are not bad and relativly cheap.
     
  24. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    They're very similar to France - the long-distance high speed service is quite good (though run on the Romance model, i.e. inconsistent timetabling, compulsory reservations and a lack of through ticketing), but the regional services are relatively poor.
     
  25. duesselmartin

    duesselmartin Member

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    In northern Italy regional services may be of old stock at Times, but much more frequent than in many parts of France and cheaper. I rather have Regionale over a TER any day but that is OT.
    As to Fyra, I wonders if SNCB/NMBS and NS habe done their homework when ordering or was political intererence involved there.
     
  26. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I suspect they may have been a victim of the EU procurement rules, where it's difficult to put a tender out excluding a specific manufacturer[1], and AnsaldoBreda probably came up cheapest because they are rubbish.

    [1] Or bus operator; tenders keep going to the disreputable small independents in many areas because they're cheapest.
     
  27. Craig2601

    Craig2601 Member

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    Yep, would always rather have a Regionale than TER, services seem more frequent although I do find the regionale around Milan to be particularly poor compared to regions such as Emilia Romagna. Anyways, the train ex Fyra unit in Lybia is visible from google maps, it certainly looks strange!
     
  28. AlexNL

    AlexNL Member

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    When the procurement started there were several contenders, including Alstom and Siemens. In the 'Best And Final Offer' phase the battle was between Alstom and AnsaldoBreda, Siemens had withdrawn earlier.

    The Alstom offer was cheaper than what AnsaldoBreda put on the table. However, Alstom withdrew from the tender when the client lowered the size of the initial order. This left NS with just one candidate: the Italians.

    Cancelling the tender altogether and starting over wasn't an option due to the timelines, the Government insisted on the start date (April 2007) being adhered to and redoing the rolling stock tender process would've jeopardised that.
     
  29. axlecounter

    axlecounter Member

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    Requirements?
     
  30. duesselmartin

    duesselmartin Member

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    Thank you AlexNL for that clarification.
     
  31. tasky

    tasky Member

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    "How bad can it be?"
     

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