So many journeys still being subbed for a Sprinter is appalling!
Yes quite. Even as someone who does prefer a MK4, I find as far as advances are concerned, it's far more of a worthy compromise to book a 197 diagram as it's considerably less likely to be a 150 these days than a MK4 is.
Seems random which ones which each week. Not quite sure the reason behind it swapping but there must be one!
It'll go over once the 5th car set is brought out whenever that is now!
Thanks. I do appreciate the perspective you bring.
Very poor.
From my daily commutes through Cardiff Central, among close look at the allocations each day, that's become very much the exception rather than the rule these days. It is usually the MK4s substituted, and we must take into account proportions too. There are about thirty 197 diagrams, compared to only four MK4 ones.
The final set is a long way (if ever) away. It's the 5 car one which is next. Effectively there's 2 of the fleet missing which is why the (eventual) diagrams can't possibly be covered.Still maybe TfW will get the final set in service.
I still believe all efforts should be on 197 acceptance and maintenance. I appreciate on that I am probably on my own
Nope, I completely agree. I've said, even as a fan of MK4s (IC225 are my favourite British loco-hauled trains), the plans were a vanity project from the start.I still believe all efforts should be on 197 acceptance and maintenance. I appreciate on that I am probably on my own
Absolutely. The Gerald service was pretty much there to provide premium service for ministers from North Wales, then someone had the bright idea that it might work on Manchester services. The idea was good. South Wales - Manchester deserves a First product as much as South Wales - London or North Wales - London. The idea that using aged Mk4's with unreliable loco's wasn't as good.
Would have been far, far more of a robust, better in the long term plan.
I do know the price but I'm not sure how public it is so best not to say the exact figure.
If only the vehicles had as many engines as a 3 car 197
Ultimately the 197’s were procured when the franchise was given to Keolis-Amey. These additional MK4’s were purchased by the Welsh Gov after they took over the contract during Covid.If only the vehicles had as many engines as a 3 car 197
This is probably a reminder why cheaper is not always better.
They stopped being additional as soon as it was decided the 170s would no longer stay and would go to EMR.
Is that correct ? I thought 170’s were originally staying only for HOW ? But now the 153’s are staying. So were 170’s also planned for other routes ?
You don’t need 32 vehicles just for HOW. Weren’t they also for other West Wales routes?
Nah. Remember that TfW had twelve, eight of which were three-carriages. They'd never have needed that many carriages exclusively for HoW, but planned to retain all, the planned routes being Swansea - Pembroke, Cardiff/Carmarthen - Fishguard and Crewe - Swansea via HoW.
170s were planned for the West Wales branches, HOWL and Crewe - Shrewsbury locals. Instead 153s are staying on HOWL and the other routes are getting 197s freed up by the extra MKIVs.
So the general consensus is most likely to be for many (accounting for subjectivity), downgraded plans for HOWL but upgraded for everything else. Mind you, they'll probably order 10-15 more 197/0s to bump off the 153s and 230s in a few years anyway. Here's hoping.
Or some sort of Bimode depending on if electrification gets anywhere.
At least a couple of diagrams are 158s which are acceptable, its the 150s that are especially unsuitable for the long distance services.
i believe the 2 car 170s were meant for the HOWL as a 3 car would be wasted there. The 3 cars were going to the West Wales branch lines which would have been an upgrade on the current and now future 2 cars for these lines.
A lot of the future plans for Heart of Wales will depend on the success of the Active Travel units. If it takes off then it'll be hard to take it away again but if it doesnt then anything can replace. There's almost no way the finances for a brand new unit down there stack up, especially one with a huge bike area taking out a huge chunk of seats but once it's in and (if) a success realistically it's going to be there to stay in some form.
As you say it's pretty subjective, especially as in terms of passenger experience there isn't a great difference between a 170 and 197 other than an extra degree of modernity, but yes I'd say that's a fair summary.
Honestly, I had very little idea how many 170’s we had or what the plans were (I.E keep all or just keep some and what routes).
Would you mind elaborating, sorry? It’s hard to draw anything from that statement.