Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

[SuperLuke2334]

Temporary I believe. But it does appear to be the case; service appears on RTT as “Standard Class Only” and you can’t purchase first class tickets for that specific train, obviously open tickets you can mind.

Thanks .

 

[voithgearbox]

67025 working 1V70 down this morning passing Levenshulme. Not the best shot, but oh well....should've gone for Stockport instead!

 

[RealTrains07]

Is there still a plan to extend the TfW sets to 5 coaches?

 

[MP393]

Is there still a plan to extend the TfW sets to 5 coaches?

Very much so. HD03 has been testing with it’s extended set this week just gone

 

[anthony263]

Dvt 82201 suffered a broken window near Port talbot while working the 1455 Swansea to Manchester piccadilly. Loco hauled rakes replaced by a class 150 at Cardiff Central

 

[voithgearbox]

Hi all, wondering if anyone has a confirmation of 67/mk4 sets out tomorrow? Assuming it'll be one less because of 82201's broken window?

 

[berneyarms]

Is there still a plan to extend the TfW sets to 5 coaches?

One set has now been extended and has had the necessary modifications to allow for selective door operation, and each of the other sets will be modified and extended in due course.

 

[rftorf]

A couple of shots of 67 025 and DVT 82201 at Bridgend on it's way to Swansea before the broken DVT window, Sunday 28th May 2023.

 

[voithgearbox]

The diagram involving 1V33, 1W19 and 1W50 seems to be 150213 today - assuming this is because of 82201's damaged window hence the absence of a loco-hauled set?

Does anyone know if 67012 is facing north or south by any chance?

 

[Plodster]

The diagram involving 1V33, 1W19 and 1W50 seems to be 150213 today - assuming this is because of 82201's damaged window hence the absence of a loco-hauled set?

Does anyone know if 67012 is facing north or south by any chance?

It’s facing North.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

The diagram involving 1V33, 1W19 and 1W50 seems to be 150213 today - assuming this is because of 82201's damaged window hence the absence of a loco-hauled set?

Does anyone know if 67012 is facing north or south by any chance?

No 82201 set should have been on 1V31, but has picked up the diagram from Cardiff on 1W55. Just means they couldn't get another set out.

67012 is facing south.

It’s facing North.

67012 facing south, I eyeballed it this morning.

 

[Plodster]

No 82201 set should have been on 1V31, but has picked up the diagram from Cardiff on 1W55. Just means they couldn't get another set out.

67012 is facing south.


67012 facing south, I eyeballed it this morning.

Ah yes
I forgot the reverse at CTR lol

 

[voithgearbox]

Seems to be some disruption few hours earlier at CRE involving "person hit by a train (XC)" - 1W55, 1W16 and 1W57 terminated short?

 

[MP393]

Seems to be some disruption few hours earlier at CRE involving "person hit by a train (XC)" - 1W55, 1W16 and 1W57 terminated short?

AWC 1A29 Struck a person at Wilmslow.

Mk4 set on 1W55 terminated Crewe, shunted out into the Down Refuge Sdg (as was blocking a platform) and formed 1V42 back on diagram.

1W16 terminated Crewe and formed a late start of 1V40 .

 

[sd0733]

Seems to be some disruption few hours earlier at CRE involving "person hit by a train (XC)" - 1W55, 1W16 and 1W57 terminated short?

Yes, that happened at Wilmslow blocking the line for a while.

1 diagram missing today due to lack of available staff on Crewe Arriva depot (The carriage shed) tonight so HD02 being sent out tomorrow over today, 1W65 will be a unit tonight and 1V31 start diagram will be a unit tomorrow Due to this.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Given all the trouble these old worn out ex-LNER/GC mark 4 sets are causing, they should have been sent direct to the scrapyard in Newport, with more class 197 units bought instead. An hourly 2-3 car standard class only dmu without catering (other than a trolley) is sufficient for the Manchester-Cardiff route. I recently made a late afternoon weekday journey from Crewe to Cardiff and back and the 2 coach class 158 and 175 units were more than adequate for the traffic, and fairly comfortable, with the class 158 being the better unit IMO

I disagree completely with all of that except perhaps regarding first class and that a class 158 is a better unit, in the round, than a 175. The 175s are better in some respects (doors, windows, air-con (probably) and seat pitch) but the 158s are that tiny bit closer to being the perfect DMU. After the rammed class 175 (I think it was even a 3-car one) my mother and I had into Manchester last year (where she is convinced she caught COVID, and took most of the summer to recover as a result), I wouldn't want to diagram the Manchester-Swansea route for anything less than a 5-car class 158 or 175 though (sadly there aren't enough of said units to do that).

Remember also that KeolisAmey's plan for the route was 5-cars with a 'first class' section in one of them, so standard-class-only was never on the cards once they had won the franchise - as much as I'd be just as happy with 5 coaches of standard* and no first class.

*provided those were of reasonable quality like the mark 4s, 175s and TfW's 158s - not concrete-seated horrors like Northern's class 195s or the TPE mark 5 stock (I have now been on a class 397 and thought it would have been a great train if only the seats had cuisioning).

TfW drivers will soon be voting on a proposal to make Sundays part of the working week - if that goes through, it'll have a much bigger impact on the reliability of Sunday services than the choice of rolling stock.

Is there a similar vote for guards or do they already have Sundays as part of the working week?

Without going off topic too much. It's become such a mess in an ever changing situation.
There should have been 5/6 Mk4's in service. A full 230 operation. The majority of 175's still in service and 769's still in service. 170's to cover West Wales and HOW. Most of that hasn't happened.

Assuming you mean 5-6 rakes of mark 4s, then I don't think that was ever on the cards. KeolisAmey's plan was for only three rakes which would have covered two diagrams on Holyhead-Cardiff only. If I recall correctly, the Grand Central sets were only added to the plan when the plan to send the 170s west was scrapped in favour of sending them off-lease to EMR.

 

[Caaardiff]

Assuming you mean 5-6 rakes of mark 4s, then I don't think that was ever on the cards. KeolisAmey's plan was for only three rakes which would have covered two diagrams on Holyhead-Cardiff only. If I recall correctly, the Grand Central sets were only added to the plan when the plan to send the 170s west was scrapped in favour of sending them off-lease to EMR.

It's difficult to quantify as the ultimate fleet plan changed completely. I'm not sure if there was ever a plan to keep the 153's, which are now replacing what the 170's would have been doing down west. There may be a 197 or 2 thrown in the mix there as well, which the mk4's would be covering for. It's not simple to judge. But it was more that by now it was expected with the additional Mk4's to have 5/6 in service by now. But that hasn't happened with delays to HD08, delayed SDO and 5 carriage mods.

 

[craigybagel]

Is there a similar vote for guards or do they already have Sundays as part of the working week?

Not yet. I think they're hoping to start on that once the drivers are sorted - though it's part of a whole package of changes to T&C's that would affect drivers in a different way to guards.

It's difficult to quantify as the ultimate fleet plan changed completely. I'm not sure if there was ever a plan to keep the 153's, which are now replacing what the 170's would have been doing down west. There may be a 197 or 2 thrown in the mix there as well, which the mk4's would be covering for. It's not simple to judge. But it was more that by now it was expected with the additional Mk4's to have 5/6 in service by now. But that hasn't happened with delays to HD08, delayed SDO and 5 carriage mods.

The original plan was for no 153s to remain. 170s were to go on West Wales, HOWL and Crewe - Shrewsbury. The extra MKIVs displace enough 197s for West Wales and Crewe - Shrewsbury, with the 153s needed to make up the numbers for HOWL.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

It's difficult to quantify as the ultimate fleet plan changed completely. I'm not sure if there was ever a plan to keep the 153's, which are now replacing what the 170's would have been doing down west. There may be a 197 or 2 thrown in the mix there as well, which the mk4's would be covering for. It's not simple to judge. But it was more that by now it was expected with the additional Mk4's to have 5/6 in service by now. But that hasn't happened with delays to HD08, delayed SDO and 5 carriage mods.

Worth pointing out that HD08 may not even happen now as said before... the coaches are in a very bad way and stripped for spares I hear.

 

[Anonymous10]

Worth pointing out that HD08 may not even happen now as said before... the coaches are in a very bad way and stripped for spares I hear.

Yes however there is a rake of 4 coaches formed up at Landore and look to have been made dry as of Friday 26th.

 

[voithgearbox]

Is it right to think there will still be loco sets in operation tomorrow? 1V33 0627 MAN-CDF seems to be 67025/HD04.

 

[sd0733]

Is it right to think there will still be loco sets in operation tomorrow? 1V33 0627 MAN-CDF seems to be 67025/HD04.

Yes, everything should run bar 1V31/1W55/1V42/1W23 due to issues at the depot. That diagram should resume on Thursday

 

[voithgearbox]

Yes, everything should run bar 1V31/1W55/1V42/1W23 due to issues at the depot. That diagram should resume on Thursday

Cheers!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Given all the trouble these old worn out ex-LNER/GC mark 4 sets are causing, they should have been sent direct to the scrapyard in Newport, with more class 197 units bought instead.

Agreed. More trouble than they’re worth. Very nice interior (though I personally don’t think they ride well trundling up the Marches) if you ignore the lazy retention of Virgin Trains’ specification, but

An hourly 2-3 car standard class only dmu without catering (other than a trolley) is sufficient for the Manchester-Cardiff route.

I hope you mean sufficient when paired up, else this claim is ridiculous.

If you don’t mean paired up, how often do you travel on this route? If you don’t often then the audacity and blindsightedness to claim that 2 carriages is sufficient for the route is quite something. Every day 175/0s leave people behind. And if you are a regular traveller on the route, that you’ve somehow managed not to experience this is somewhat of a miracle.

Brilliant stuff. The 1630 made it Swansea again.

There seems to have been a problem though as neither the 13:30 or 15:30 Manchester to West Wales ran from Piccadilly.

The very problem with these trains is in exactly what you have just said.
“Brilliant stuff.” - that a train actually managed to complete its booked diagram. How dire if we’ve got to the stage where this basic expectation is so rarely fulfilled that we celebrate when it is.

 

[sd0733]

The very problem with these trains is in exactly what you have just said.
“Brilliant stuff.” - that a train actually managed to complete its booked diagram. How dire if we’ve got to the stage where this basic expectation is so rarely fulfilled that we celebrate when it is.

Only on here are we at that stage. It's pretty rare for one thats sent out not to complete the diagram.
They're head and shoulders above other recently introduced trains, reliability wise, including 197s, theres just more of them to swap in and out of diagrams, and most of the substitutions aren't train faults.

 

[Jez]

Agreed. More trouble than they’re worth. Very nice interior (though I personally don’t think they ride well trundling up the Marches) if you ignore the lazy retention of Virgin Trains’ specification, but


I hope you mean sufficient when paired up, else this claim is ridiculous.

If you don’t mean paired up, how often do you travel on this route? If you don’t often then the audacity and blindsightedness to claim that 2 carriages is sufficient for the route is quite something. Every day 175/0s leave people behind. And if you are a regular traveller on the route, that you’ve somehow managed not to experience this is somewhat of a miracle.


The very problem with these trains is in exactly what you have just said.
“Brilliant stuff.” - that a train actually managed to complete its booked diagram. How dire if we’ve got to the stage where this basic expectation is so rarely fulfilled that we celebrate when it is.

I agree. I was amazed when one actually did Swansea-Manchester the other day (think it was Saturday) even though its actually booked!

The MK4s are okay to travel on. Personally I preferred the 197s and 231s but then they are new trains. As long as 197s are formed of 5 carriages they will be fine on the Marches.

 

[Topological]

I agree. I was amazed when one actually did Swansea-Manchester the other day (think it was Saturday) even though its actually booked!

The MK4s are okay to travel on. Personally I preferred the 197s and 231s but then they are new trains. As long as 197s are formed of 5 carriages they will be fine on the Marches.

I do agree

I am just so conditioned now to expecting to endure a 150 that anything actually working impresses me. 150s are ok if the train is quiet, or there are 4 carriages. 2 cars cannot cover a 175 by any mathematics.

 

[Jez]

I do agree

I am just so conditioned now to expecting to endure a 150 that anything actually working impresses me. 150s are ok if the train is quiet, or there are 4 carriages. 2 cars cannot cover a 175 by any mathematics.

On Tuesday I had a 175 back from Cardiff (3 cars) and as much as I've grown to appreciate the 150s in recent months, it was great to be on a 175. Epseiclaly as it wasn't too busy and ran to time for once!

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Do we have an updated list of the sets and DVTs please because I have one but it probably needs up dating now?

 

[voithgearbox]

Hi all, 67017/HD01 seems to be allocated 1W00 then 1V70 tomorrow - does anyone know whether the loco is north or south facing? Thanks