Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

[Envoy]

I hope they don’t paint them in black. I would prefer them to be painted in the same livery as the 175’s.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I hope they don’t paint them in black. I would prefer them to be painted in the same livery as the 175’s.

Yes as would I. All nice and matching.

 

[trainswitheddy]

From what I’ve heard, it’s no longer going ahead. Vinyl might still be on the table, though.

That's a shame. The mockup looked really nice from what I saw, let's hope this isn't forever and they'll be painted at some point soon.

 

[GWVillager]

That's a shame. The mockup looked really nice from what I saw, let's hope this isn't forever and they'll be painted at some point soon.

sd0733 seemed to confirm my suspicions that they were due a repaint anyway. I think this means that HD01-03 will get painted black to match the rest, if those are the ones that won’t receive a repaint?

 

[Welshguy1048]

A video of 67005 "Queens Messenger" and 67022 - light loco from Crewe T.M.D. to Holyhead Car M.D. - 28th November

 

[Plodster]

020 failed at Holyhead over the weekend so I’m assuming one will replace it on HD05 and the other will return to Crewe with 020 in tow..

Or they have collected the whole set (020 & HD05)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The constant 67+MK4 issues must cost TfW so much in terms of resources, money, having to drag etc, maintenance.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The constant 67+MK4 issues must cost TfW so much in terms of resources, money, having to drag etc, maintenance.

Not to mention what I saw at Stockport on Friday - a massively overcrowded 2.5 Standard Class coaches, a full-ish buffet and a half-empty First Class carriage. This was the 16:40 Stockport to Cardiff, which eventually left at 16:50 (possibly due to the crowds)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Not to mention what I saw at Stockport on Friday - a massively overcrowded 2.5 Standard Class coaches, a full-ish buffet and a half-empty First Class carriage. This was the 16:40 Stockport to Cardiff, which eventually left at 16:50 (possibly due to the crowds)

Yes it’s extremely ironic that the hardly ever open buffet and kitchen - considerably larger than the 197 food area - doesn’t get moaned about, but members never stop yapping about it on the 197 The conflict of interest being many are fans of hauled stock.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Yes it’s extremely ironic that the hardly ever open buffet and kitchen - considerably larger than the 197 food area - doesn’t get moaned about, but members never stop yapping about it on the 197 The conflict of interest being many are fans of hauled stock.

And here's me thinking everybody WFH on Fridays I think many were leisure travellers though what with the markets in Manchester (not going there again on a Friday night!) Business people might have been more likely to travel First.

 

[GWVillager]

Yes it’s extremely ironic that the hardly ever open buffet and kitchen - considerably larger than the 197 food area - doesn’t get moaned about, but members never stop yapping about it on the 197 The conflict of interest being many are fans of hauled stock.

I think you’re overanalysing. The buffets provide a huge upgrade in service quality, whereas the 197 food area is of virtually no benefit considering its size.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think you’re overanalysing. The buffets provide a huge upgrade in service quality, whereas the 197 food area is of virtually no benefit considering its size.

1) The buffet is 80% the time closed
2) The food area, when the full fleet is in use and it becomes utilised, will allow both hot and cold food to be cooked and served to customers at seat, sort of like what the 67+MK4 buffet does but with a more limited option (but consequently taking less space) and will replace the need for a trolley trundling up and down and getting in the way.

 

[MCR247]

I see 1V46 the 1430 off Piccadilly only got to Shrewsbury before getting cancelled. I guess (depending on the fault) that set may not be back out tomorrow

 

[Jamesrob637]

I'd guess there's an average of one train a day which terminates at Wilmslow now - Stockport can't really be used because the signalling won't allow an easy reversal, but Wilmslow is simple and there's a choice of platforms depending on what else is around.

One today has terminated/turned around in Wilmslow - the 15:30 off Piccadilly.

 

[sd0733]

I see 1V46 the 1430 off Piccadilly only got to Shrewsbury before getting cancelled. I guess (depending on the fault) that set may not be back out tomorrow

Fault with the cab heating on HD06 so it's gone back to Crewe for repairs. Fairly common across a lot of fleets at this time of year unfortunately.

 

[MP393]

One today has terminated/turned around in Wilmslow - the 15:30 off Piccadilly.

That was a 150, covering a 197 diagram. The 15:30 from Piccadilly is not booked a mk4

 

[Jamesrob637]

That was a 150, covering a 197 diagram. The 15:30 from Piccadilly is not booked a mk4

I'd have happily waited for the 16:30 anyway as it's booked MKIV, had I been booked to take the 15:30 off Stockport today.

 

[Richard Scott]

Yes it’s extremely ironic that the hardly ever open buffet and kitchen - considerably larger than the 197 food area - doesn’t get moaned about, but members never stop yapping about it on the 197 The conflict of interest being many are fans of hauled stock.

That's because mk4 hauled stock is vastly superior to a 197 in terms of passenger comfort and ambience.

 

[Topological]

1) The buffet is 80% the time closed
2) The food area, when the full fleet is in use and it becomes utilised, will allow both hot and cold food to be cooked and served to customers at seat, sort of like what the 67+MK4 buffet does but with a more limited option (but consequently taking less space) and will replace the need for a trolley trundling up and down and getting in the way.

That sounds good, though I wouldnt be buying anything on the train anyway.

The Mark IV just seems like an unnecessary luxury, they should have just concentrated on getting the service right and consistent. All the splitting at Cardiff is a massive downgrade.

Yes the 197 is not as nice, but there is not much in it. All that is needed really is to get a 4th carriage and everyone will think the Marches service is brilliant again.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

That's because mk4 hauled stock is vastly superior to a 197 in terms of passenger comfort and ambience.

Subjective statement. Very. You can’t rightfully say that’s a fact.

That sounds good, though I wouldnt be buying anything on the train anyway.

The Mark IV just seems like an unnecessary luxury, they should have just concentrated on getting the service right and consistent. All the splitting at Cardiff is a massive downgrade.

Yes the 197 is not as nice, but there is not much in it. All that is needed really is to get a 4th carriage and everyone will think the Marches service is brilliant again.

Agreed, and as for the 197 not being as nice, that’s a matter of individual taste anyway

 

[Welshguy1048]

020 failed at Holyhead over the weekend so I’m assuming one will replace it on HD05 and the other will return to Crewe with 020 in tow..

Or they have collected the whole set (020 & HD05)

This light locomotive was 67005 and 67022 returning to Crewe after going to Holyhead earlier todsy.

 

[Jez]

I think you’re overanalysing. The buffets provide a huge upgrade in service quality, whereas the 197 food area is of virtually no benefit considering its size.

We cant really say that about the 197 catering area until the full catering service starts operating.

Regarding the MK4's they are great when they actually run. Ive lost count of the amount of times ive checked RTT and both Swansea turns are subbed for a Sprinter if indeed it runs at all (particularly the morning journey, the evening return from Manchester has been more reliable as a MK4 recently) Also performance seems to be poor. Every time ive checked RTT for the 1630 Swansea it seems to be late! Considering the effort they went to to split the West Wales to Manchester service every two hours including all the issues with terminating extra trains at Central it doesnt seem to be of much benefit so far.

 

[Richard Scott]

Subjective statement. Very. You can’t rightfully say that’s a fact.

It is subjective but I'd be willing to bet most people would agree.

 

[Plodster]

This light locomotive was 67005 and 67022 returning to Crewe after going to Holyhead earlier todsy.

67022 is now up at Holyhead with HD05 and is booked to work 1V91 tomorrow morning.

 

[Newp410]

It is subjective but I'd be willing to bet most people would agree.

I would. I've done countless long distance journeys on both the Mk4s and 197s. There is only one winner. Hopefully once CAF deliver LNER's Mk4 replacements TfW will take on even more.

 

[Topological]

It is subjective but I'd be willing to bet most people would agree.

I suspect it depends on how many journeys they make across Cardiff. I doubt anyone who normally enjoyed the hourly frequency would believe that the splits necessitated for the Mk4 are progress.

The Mk4 is the better train, but the costs that have been borne on the Marches are not worth the benefit.

When (though I fear IF) the 197s are offering 4 or 5 carriages then I doubt you will find anyone clamouring for the Mk4 option.

We are still not at a place where there are no 150s, so there is a long long way to go.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Subjective statement. Very. You can’t rightfully say that’s a fact.

For someone routinely pedantic about facts, it’s interesting you would make the following comment that is definitely not fact:

1) The buffet is 80% the time closed

It’s definitely open a lot more than that. I’m a big fan of the 197’s but the buffet offering is much better on the MK4 than the 197’s could ever offer. And It’s non-debatable. The MK4 has an entire kitchen.

2) The food area, when the full fleet is in use and it becomes utilised, will allow both hot and cold food to be cooked and served to customers at seat, sort of like what the 67+MK4 buffet does but with a more limited option (but consequently taking less space) and will replace the need for a trolley trundling up and down and getting in the way.

I think it’s been proven on here already that there is no way for the food area to provide hot food. I’m training on 197’s at the moment so I’ve had a look inside the cupboard and I can’t see any provision for hot food. There’s a water tank, space for the trolley and not much else it seems.

I would. I've done countless long distance journeys on both the Mk4s and 197s. There is only one winner. Hopefully once CAF deliver LNER's Mk4 replacements TfW will take on even more.

I’d love to see TFW take on more of the MK4’s making every service leaving Manchester going to, ideally Swansea, but Cardiff else-wise, booked as a MK4.

When (though I fear IF) the 197s are offering 4 or 5 carriages then I doubt you will find anyone clamouring for the Mk4 option.

I do currently and will continue to always try and get on a MK4. I wouldn’t be sad if a 197 turned up, but I’d be much happier on the MK4.

We are still not at a place where there are no 150s, so there is a long long way to go.

Unfortunately I’m sat on one right now that has replaced a 197.

Every day for the past 5 weeks I have been travelling to Chester. Every journey starts with a 45 minute ride on a 158 (thank you Cambrian) and then it’s been 197’s or 158’s from Shrewsbury to Chester and the same coming home. I can certainly notice a slight down grade in comfort going straight from the 158 to the 197 but nothing major and I’ll be glad to see the 197’s replace the 158’s on the Cambrian.

On the one occasion I had to make a detour via Crewe for the return journey and had a MK4 Crewe - Shrewsbury, it felt like total luxury even in standard.

Back to this 150 right now, god I can’t wait to see the back of them! Uncomfortable, rattling, drafty and losing time

 

[Topological]

Looking today at departures from Cardiff there are two diagrams where no MK4 is able to be provided

1W13 is a 150
1W55 is three 153s connected together
1W61 is a 150 (same diagram as 1W13)
1W23 is the three 153s again

None of that is progress. When you have to cram onto a 150 and lose time every day there is no amount of "niceness" that would make such an unreliable offering preferable.

The only thing that can be said is that at least they plan 3 153s connected together.

 

[GWVillager]

Looking today at departures from Cardiff there are two diagrams where no MK4 is able to be provided

1W13 is a 150
1W55 is three 153s connected together
1W61 is a 150 (same diagram as 1W13)
1W23 is the three 153s again

None of that is progress. When you have to cram onto a 150 and lose time every day there is no amount of "niceness" that would make such an unreliable offering preferable.

The only thing that can be said is that at least they plan 3 153s connected together.

It is really quite bad. After so many “fresh starts”, I do wonder if they’ll ever settle down.

 

[sd0733]

Looking today at departures from Cardiff there are two diagrams where no MK4 is able to be provided

1W13 is a 150
1W55 is three 153s connected together
1W61 is a 150 (same diagram as 1W13)
1W23 is the three 153s again

1W55 and W23 yes that should be a Mk4 but the 1W13/1W61 isn't even a Mk4 diagram so it won't be a Mk4. Until the extra set comes out whenever that is then it's always going to be a unit as that's what it's booked for.