Excess fare question

[jaimie]

Hello

I have been purchased a standard ticket GLC-EUS (at this point I'm not sure if its an Advanced or off-peak). Before I travel, I want to pay the excess to upgrade the ticket to a first advance. My question is, can I use my 16-25 rail card to benefit from the discounted first advance fare, despite the fact that the original fare was ticketed at the standard full price and no railcard was used?

Thanks!
Jaimie

 

[First class]

Hello

I have been purchased a standard ticket GLC-EUS (at this point I'm not sure if its an Advanced or off-peak). Before I travel, I want to pay the excess to upgrade the ticket to a first advance. My question is, can I use my 16-25 rail card to benefit from the discounted first advance fare, despite the fact that the original fare was ticketed at the standard full price and no railcard was used?

Thanks!
Jaimie

For an accurate answer, we need your ticket details.

If you hold an undiscounted off-peak ticket, you would have to pay the excess between the off-peak and the undiscounted first open ticket. You could not 'excess' to the Advance First ticket type with an off-peak ticket. You cannot get a YP discount on First Open tickets. (See below for Advance).

e.g.

Glasgow Central - London Euston Off Peak Return £108.40
Glasgow Central - London Euston First Open Return £423.00

The excess you would pay to upgrade to 1st would be £314.60

If you hold an advance ticket, you MAY be able to excess up to a First Advance, as long as there are some left. You would probably have to do this around a week before travelling or you've got very little chance of any of these fares being available. In addition to the excess fare, you have to pay an admin fee of £10 for changing your journey plans. You could get your YP discount on the excess, so long as there are tickets left. You CANNOT excess a advance ticket into an off-peak or open return.

If you're travelling on Saturday, Sunday or a bank holiday, you can upgrade for £15, on the train, on the day. The on-board announcements usually say 'Any passenger wishing to upgrade to first class can do so for £15 today. Please take a seat in 1st class if you wish to take advantage of this offer'.

 

[yorkie]

You can still excess it, but it will be to the appropriate price, so it could be expensive. You can get a 16-25 discount on First Advance priced by most operators.

If it is an Advance ticket, they may charge you a £10 admin fee for changing it.

I am not sure if Virgin allows Weekend First upgrades on Advance fares. But if they do that may be cheaper, if you are travelling at a weekend. (If they do not officially allow it, the guard may allow it at his/her discretion if FC isn't too full)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If you hold an undiscounted off-peak ticket, you would have to pay the excess between the off-peak and the undiscounted first open ticket. You could not 'excess' to the Advance First ticket type with an off-peak ticket. You cannot get a YP discount on First Open tickets. (See below for Advance).

Is that documented anywhere? At a worst case it could be refunded, minus £10 admin fee and then charge a new ticket.

 

[jaimie]

thanks for the advice!

 

[First class]

Is that documented anywhere? At a worst case it could be refunded, minus £10 admin fee and then charge a new ticket.

Changing the ticket:

The origin, destination and Train Company or route shown on the ticket(s) must remain the same.

The route on an advance GLC-EUS would be VT Only. The route on the off-peak is most likely Any Permitted. Therefore you could not excess an off-peak ticket as the route does not remain the same.

I interpret the 'Train company must remain the same' to reflect upon Operator-specific tickets, to which many off peak tickets are not.

 

[Deerfold]

The route on an advance GLC-EUS would be VT Only. The route on the off-peak is most likely Any Permitted. Therefore you could not excess an off-peak ticket as the route does not remain the same.

I interpret the 'Train company must remain the same' to reflect upon Operator-specific tickets, to which many off peak tickets are not.

But if it's not an advance ticket, you could get a refund (minus the £10 admin fee) and then buy a first advance ticket. Techincally two seperate transactions, but it does the job.

 

[Failed Unit]

But if it's not an advance ticket, you could get a refund (minus the £10 admin fee) and then buy a first advance ticket. Techincally two seperate transactions, but it does the job.

Isn't that technically what you are doing when you upgrade an Advanced ticket? Whenever I have done it I have to buy a new ticket + admin. Send back the old ticket and once the operator receives the old ticket they refund it to my credit card. Prevents me from using both. I have never got an excess ticket which states only valid with xxxxx when upgrading an advance.

 

[Deerfold]

Isn't that technically what you are doing when you upgrade an Advanced ticket? Whenever I have done it I have to buy a new ticket + admin. Send back the old ticket and once the operator receives the old ticket they refund it to my credit card. Prevents me from using both. I have never got an excess ticket which states only valid with xxxxx when upgrading an advance.

No - refunds are not available with advance tickets, only changes. My wife has changed a frist advance ticket and got a new ticket saying "only valid with xxxx"

 

[Failed Unit]

No - refunds are not available with advance tickets, only changes. My wife has changed a frist advance ticket and got a new ticket saying "only valid with xxxx"

It was a change, it was just the way it was processed which was different, IE issue new ticket and refund the old one, they wouldn't refund the old ticket unless I had a booking reference for the new one. This was National Express East Coast, so I suspect they did it that way for 2 reasons.

1. They had the money for both tickets of a period of time.
2. If the ticket I returned got lost in the post that was my problem.

Definately prefer they way yours was changed, saved ME the hastle of posting the unwanted tickets back!

They used the process twice, once I was a muppet and put the wrong railcard in, YP instead of Senior. Didn't want to risk travelling so changed it. The other time was I wanted to travel on a later train. The other condition is that the ticket needed to be of the same value or more than the ticket I already had.

 

[First class]

No - refunds are not available with advance tickets, only changes. My wife has changed a frist advance ticket and got a new ticket saying "only valid with xxxx"

A refund is available in very limited circumstances, (in which the train must be delayed by 60mins or more/cancelled).

If the train you purchased a ticket for is cancelled or delayed by more than 60 minutes, special arrangements will be made to accommodate you on another train (although a seat cannot be guaranteed). If, as a result, you decide not to travel, a refund will be offered on completely unused tickets and you will not be charged an administration fee.

 

[Deerfold]

A refund is available in very limited circumstances, (in which the train must be delayed by 60mins or more/cancelled).

I should have clarified - refunds because you have changed your mind are not available.

Failed Unit - I agree that yours was a change, I was saying it was not the same as the previous transaction I had described as that was techically a refund followed by a new ticket purcahse.

I did wonder if this was a premier service for first class passengers - I've sent them tickets back before for second class changes. I rarely bother though as my usual ticket is £13.

 

[John @ home]

I interpret the 'Train company must remain the same' to reflect upon Operator-specific tickets, to which many off peak tickets are not.

From which document are you quoting the words "Train company must remain the same"?

 

[First class]

John @ Home:

Originally Posted by ATOC Advance Ticket T+Cs
Changing the ticket:

The origin, destination and Train Company or route shown on the ticket(s) must remain the same.

A version should be on the National Rail Enq website...

 

[John @ home]

At a worst case it could be refunded, minus £10 admin fee and then charge a new ticket.

But the OP wrote "I have been purchased a standard ticket GLC-EUS". If this has been purchased by warrant, through a travel agent or a company account, it is likely that a refund (less admin fee) can be made only as a credit to the same account. I think that is often the case for credit/debit card purchases too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Originally Posted by ATOC Advance Ticket T+Cs
Changing the ticket:

The origin, destination and Train Company or route shown on the ticket(s) must remain the same.

Curiously, Advance ticket terms and conditions apply only to Advance tickets. They do not apply to flexible tickets route "Any Permitted". So how do you come to the conclusion that

you could not excess an off-peak ticket as the route does not remain the same.

 

[First class]

But the OP wrote "I have been purchased a standard ticket GLC-EUS". If this has been purchased by warrant, through a travel agent or a company account, it is likely that a refund (less admin fee) can be made only as a credit to the same account. I think that is often the case for credit/debit card purchases too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Curiously, Advance ticket terms and conditions apply only to Advance tickets. They do not apply to flexible tickets route "Any Permitted". So how do you come to the conclusion that

You cannot excess a TOC specific ticket.

Example: You couldn't excess a WSMR Only SOR to a Any Permitted SOR, correct? You can only buy a new ticket and claim a refund on the unused one with an admin fee.

Now, if you hold an Any Permitted SOR, you couldn't excess that to a TOC specific ticket because you would be losing out unless an anomaly meant the TOC Specific ticket was more expensive.

It is ridiculous to allow someone with a more expensive fully flexible ticket to excess into an extremely restrictive ticket (maybe cheaper). You couldn't even excess flexible returns- how could you excess a return into two singles?

e.g allowing it would cause:

I have a Liverpool-London SOS priced @ £122.50

I decide I would like to travel first class, but not at the price of the FOS.

So I want to change my ticket.

There is an Advance 1st ticket available priced @ £57.00.

I ask for an excess, the excess cost is £0.00 as my original ticket was more expensive.

However, I lose all flexibility and any right to a refund. I essentially pay £122.50 for an Advance 1st ticket. A TOC will not give you the difference in cost back!

Therefore it would be better to get a refund on the original ticket and book an advance fare.

Why would it be a good idea to allow passengers to pay effectively MORE for an Advance ticket and lose flexibility?

An Advance ticket is "TOC Specific".

 

[barrykas]

Changing Advance tickets is a bit of a fudge, as it's the one way to turn a TOC specific ticket into an Any Permitted one...Albeit costing you a tenner in the process, and only being available as a Single fare. (And not available at all after the originally booked departure time).

Cheers,

Barry

 

[Deerfold]

Changing Advance tickets is a bit of a fudge, as it's the one way to turn a TOC specific ticket into an Any Permitted one...Albeit costing you a tenner in the process, and only being available as a Single fare. (And not available at all after the originally booked departure time).

Cheers,

Barry

I'm not sure I follow - I've only been able to change Advance tickets into other Advance tickets, identical except for the dates/times.