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F1 2012
- Thread starter Ivo
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You've got a PC and Internet access don't you? And it's not like DAB radios are that expensive these days.
The World Service can be picked up on the Radio 4 frequency at night.
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Whatever the broadcasting situation, we have an interesting grid for tomorrow. Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso and Webber on the first two rows, with all feeding into the Island Hairpin possibly alongside each other. Now, nothing is likely to happen, but if Vettel gets a slow start, it might be interesting.
newbie babs
Member
Wow, Alesi has a fantastic tattoo of a samurai on his back. Its looks fantastic.
He looks like the guy to beat today, Vettel best hope he gets a good start to the race.
He looks like the guy to beat today, Vettel best hope he gets a good start to the race.
Lampshade
Established Member
The BBC are doing a fantastic job at royally ballsing up the radio coverage 
Just watching the highlights on the BBC now. I already know the result of the race (looked online) but I won't post any spoilers just in case someone reads this who doesn't want to know yet.
I'll give you a clue though, it was a bloke that won it
Its gotta be said, the weather sure is differant to last year. Sunshine with a 45 degree track temperature.
Cracking start. Vetel steamed off ahead. Hamilton went defensive on Alonso and managed to hold him off. Webber and Rosberg went into a bit of a scrap. By the end of the lap Webber managed to get ahead and Rosberg went defensive on Massa who was lining him up.
Shame we didn't get this one live, Canada is always a good race.
I'll give you a clue though, it was a bloke that won it
Its gotta be said, the weather sure is differant to last year. Sunshine with a 45 degree track temperature.
Cracking start. Vetel steamed off ahead. Hamilton went defensive on Alonso and managed to hold him off. Webber and Rosberg went into a bit of a scrap. By the end of the lap Webber managed to get ahead and Rosberg went defensive on Massa who was lining him up.
Shame we didn't get this one live, Canada is always a good race.
Donny Dave
Established Member
Spoiler alert!
No safety car, and Button didn't win ....
No safety car, and Button didn't win ....
And my dire predictions of first corner carnage were totally wrong.
And we had our first DRS failure causing a retirement. Another reason why it should go, I miss the wheel-to-wheel battles down straights. The result might have been totally different if the slower cars on worn tyres had been able to hold off the faster ones behind, and as a result, more tension.
And we had our first DRS failure causing a retirement. Another reason why it should go, I miss the wheel-to-wheel battles down straights. The result might have been totally different if the slower cars on worn tyres had been able to hold off the faster ones behind, and as a result, more tension.
Donny Dave
Established Member
It's not the first failure, as a couple of cars have had DRS fail to open. However, how many problem free racing laps have we seen with DRS since it was introduced last season?
DRS is still too good at some tracks however, and even with the zone being moved 100 meters further down the straight compared to last years race, cars were still breezing past others with ease before the braking zone.
The tyres are a different matter. After Bridgestone's tyres became too good (completing all but 1 lap on the soft tyre in most races), The teams and FIA asked Pirelli to create tyres that would drop off, therefore forcing creative strategy choices. Once the tyres have gone beyond their useful life, you have very little grip which affects braking and accelerating. Drivers have to brake earlier for corners, they can't carry the speed through the corners, and they have to accelerate later out of the corners. It would be doubtful if either Alonso or Vettel could have held of Hamilton even without the DRS. Ferrari gambled and failed today, and while Red Bull also gambled, they made a late call which did salvage something.
Ivo
Established Member
Not happy with my brother at present. He called me after the race to complain about Legard's commentary in saying something monosyllabic about the winner taking the chequered flag. I sincerely wish he hadn't because I know very well that he would only call in such a situation if one of a certain batch of drivers won the race - and, having only now watched the Highlights, I have accurately predicted which of that batch won.
Something tells me this isn't right. Alesi retired years ago
Something tells me this isn't right. Alesi retired years ago
So, we should get rid of DRS because it's failed once or twice (out of how many races)? Lots of things have failed on cars in the past, causing a retirement, should we get rid of them too?
The whole point of DRS is to get cars where they are in a position to attempt an overtake (but not make it too easy), and to enable faster cars to overtake slower ones which they shouldn't really be behind. You seem to want a return to the old days where a Ferrari was stuck behind a Minardi for 50 laps because he can't get past. The racing has become infinitely more exciting IMO since the introduction of DRS, KERS, and the tyres (which probably do need a tweek).
The whole point of DRS is to get cars where they are in a position to attempt an overtake (but not make it too easy), and to enable faster cars to overtake slower ones which they shouldn't really be behind. You seem to want a return to the old days where a Ferrari was stuck behind a Minardi for 50 laps because he can't get past. The racing has become infinitely more exciting IMO since the introduction of DRS, KERS, and the tyres (which probably do need a tweek).
hairyhandedfool
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The Mercedes DRS is more stable than the other systems in use because of the front wing effect, but it is also more complex than others, with the raising device(s) in the rear wing uprights (rather than the central arm on other cars) and Mercedes seem (to me atleast) to have more failures than other teams.
I think, like the tyres and the KERS, it just needs some ironing out.
I think, like the tyres and the KERS, it just needs some ironing out.
The problem is that it does make it too easy, and this was just a little extra nudge. An epic battle between a Ferrari and an HRT (probably Minardi's heir-apparent) would at least make it more of a true competition and throw some variation into the mix. A skilled and brave drive by someone who really shouldn't be ahead - as Ivan Capelli did in France in 1990 for instance - is something worth remembering. As is Senna holding off Mansell for lap after lap at Monaco when Nigel clearly had the faster car. That's racing, where superior skill can defeat superior machinery. Currently it's into the slipstream, open the wing, zoom straight past. I preferred the old version where the trailing car pulled out and hit the airflow, then they ran side-by-side for the length of the straight and made it a braking contest.
As for what I actually want, it's this:
- No DRS
- Remove the bent-over portions of the front wings, thus reducing the effect of turbulent air on them because they are lower, making it easier to follow through a corner
- Smooth out the bodywork, making the downforce-to-drag ratio worse (you have to run bigger rear wings, which increases slipstreaming)
- Make the tyres degrade progressively, so the fresh-tyre advantage is still high, but they don't 'fall off the cliff'
- Return to one engine per weekend, thus making engine failures more likely (sounds odd, but the cars are currently too reliable, retirements increase variety)
- 9-6-4-3-2-1 points system, which seems about fair
Just heard on ITV London that officials are in discussion with Bernie Ecclestone about a London street grand prix after the Olympics, using the area surrounding the Olympic stadium.
That would be good, as we need something to rival Monaco, though ours will not be as glamorous or have the climate, or the have a harbour.
We might have to put up floating turds in the thames instead, though a good idea
That would be good, as we need something to rival Monaco, though ours will not be as glamorous or have the climate, or the have a harbour.
We might have to put up floating turds in the thames instead, though a good idea
Lampshade
Established Member
The BBC F1 website has classic F1 highlights for the European GP - none of which are Valencia :roll:
Looking forward to the race, by that I mean Silverstone.
Looking forward to the race, by that I mean Silverstone.
Does anyone remember the Birmingham Grand Prix? An F3000 race held on sections of the Inner Ring Road in the late 80s/early 90s, won by Jean Alesi on one occasion (1989 I believe).
I don't remember many 'classic' races in Valencia, although there have been a few great European Grands Prix, 1993 at Donnington being one of my favourites (although I wouldn't have wanted to be in the crowd) and possibly 1995 at the New Nurburgring. It's a pity the European Grand Prix doesn't move around Europe a bit more, getting to see different circuits might be interesting. I wouldn't mind seeing the French Grand Prix back as well, just not at Mangy-Cours.
As a matter of fact the Thames is a very clean river.
newbie babs
Member
Fantastic Race.
Alonso won in Spain, the crowds go mad. Its a great win. Well done.
Hamilton .....what can you say but we were cheering when he went off, and he had better pick his steering wheel up or else he will get fined for leaving it.
Schumacher is on the podium, (well done)
Alonso won in Spain, the crowds go mad. Its a great win. Well done.
Hamilton .....what can you say but we were cheering when he went off, and he had better pick his steering wheel up or else he will get fined for leaving it.
Schumacher is on the podium, (well done)
Failed Unit
Established Member
Very disappointed but then I don't like Alonso or Ferrari. Hopefully he will be disqualified for not getting the car back, but that Ferrari can do no wrong with the FAI (t)
It's a completely different situation to that of Hamilton in qualifying though.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Donny Dave
Established Member
I don't know how to call that .... Lewis defended the inside fairly, and took the normal line as he is entitled to. Pastor kept his foot in but ran off the track then they touched.
My gut feeling is that the stewards will probably give Maldonado a penalty for the next race.
I also expect a penalty to be give to Vergne for the next round as well, as he drove into the side of Kovalainen while overtaking him.
Yes, a hard one to call there really. A bit of blame on both sides if you take into account that Hamilton could have given more room and didn't have the tires to defend until the end of the race. At the same time, once Maldonado is off the track, he doesn't have an automatic right to rejoin where he did.
Not sure what the stewards will do, they are really hard to read this weekend, just look at the penalty given to Senna.
Not sure what the stewards will do, they are really hard to read this weekend, just look at the penalty given to Senna.
hairyhandedfool
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The rule applies to practice sessions (which includes "Qualifying Practice"), however after a race they can walk around and not have to worry about post race 'park ferme' conditions and it is Ferrari......
Maldonado has form for poor driving, but off road antics have varied steward investigation results in recent F1 history. Hamilton got a penalty for missing a chicane in Spa when taking the corner would have meant removing Raikkonen and himself from the race (and probably got a penalty for causing an avoidable accident), Vettel wasn't even mentioned when he left the track to overtake Button in Australia, Hamilton and Rosberg not getting any penalties in a race this season when Hamilton overtook whilst off of the track, I'm sure there are many more that I can't think of right now.
Drivers had been pushing others wide all race at that corner, I don't think you can single Hamilton out for it. Maldonado should have cut the corner and taken his place back behind Hamilton or slowed to follow behind Hamilton.
Well, from my point of view, welcome back F1! 
We had cars retiring from the lead, wheel-to-wheel racing through corners, outbraking (not just blast-pasts down the straight) and someone pulling a win from behind by a combination of good luck and well-timed pit stops. Where have you been all this time?
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I'd say that was a 50/50, pretty much anyway. Hamilton defended a little too hard, and Maldonado put himself in a position where it was crash or lose the place. Anyway, both of them lost any points they might have gained, so I'd say that's about fair. The one that concerns me is Kobayashi, who appeared to drive into the side of Senna, yet it was Senna who was penalised. That doesn't look right to me at all.
We had cars retiring from the lead, wheel-to-wheel racing through corners, outbraking (not just blast-pasts down the straight) and someone pulling a win from behind by a combination of good luck and well-timed pit stops. Where have you been all this time?--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'd say that was a 50/50, pretty much anyway. Hamilton defended a little too hard, and Maldonado put himself in a position where it was crash or lose the place. Anyway, both of them lost any points they might have gained, so I'd say that's about fair. The one that concerns me is Kobayashi, who appeared to drive into the side of Senna, yet it was Senna who was penalised. That doesn't look right to me at all.
Lampshade
Established Member
That was how an F1 race should be - at Valencia of all places 
hock:
hock:
Donny Dave
Established Member
I think I know which incident your on about, although I can't remember which race it was. Hamilton and Rosberg were side by side, and Rosberg just pushed him off the track. He also did the same to Alonso later in the race, and wasn't punished for either incident.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just seen on Twitter that Pastor Maldonado has been given a 20 second penalty for causing an avoidable accident. That promotes Bruno Senna to 10th.
newbie babs
Member
I am not surprised by the Hamilton ruling, he gets away with most things these days.
Lampshade
Established Member
So Williams don't actually lose any points, a non-punishment. He should have had a race ban minimum.
Donny Dave
Established Member
I'm just curious as to why you think Hamilton "got away" with it ....
In my opinion, Lewis was ahead and on the track (Maldonado drove outside the confines of the circuit) and was taking the normal racing line. Maldonado, while getting back to within the confines of the track, then drove into the side of Lewis.
Oh talking of inconsistancy from the stewards, Kimi Raikkonen has had no action taken against him despite overtaking under yellow flags....
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