Failed train Twyford 2330 hrs Sunday 21st November

[rower40]

1L96 (1920 Carmarthen to Paddington) failed (because of a seized gearbox, according to another forum) shortly before midnight last night, on the Up Main just after Twyford station. The passengers were evacuated.

But the train is still there. Any ideas why it hasn't been moved? Halving the capacity of the GWML must have some impact, no? All Up Main trains are switching to the Up Relief at Twyford West, then back to the Up Main at Maidenhead East.

Anyone got any news? Or is it on another thread that I've missed?

 

[Melancholia]

Wheel skates required to get it moved. Apparently the nearest available skates are in Edinburgh.

 

[pdeaves]

Wheel skates required to get it moved. Apparently the nearest available skates are in Edinburgh.

That seems to be the case. Quite why class- (or manufacturer-) specific skates are needed, I don't know. Maybe this incident is the trigger to ask those questions 'higher up'.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That seems to be the case. Quite why class- (or manufacturer-) specific skates are needed, I don't know. Maybe this incident is the trigger to ask those questions 'higher up'.

Or more to the point why skates suitable for 80x aren't held in all of GWR's rolling stock depots.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Or more to the point why skates suitable for 80x aren't held in all of GWR's rolling stock depots.

This was going to be my question. Seems like an almighty balls up to me. Surely skates can't be that expensive to keep a set in western region somewhere!

 

[Bill57p9]

This was going to be my question. Seems like an almighty balls up to me. Surely skates can't be that expensive to keep a set in western region somewhere!

Certainly sounds expensive NOT to have a set...

 

[Horizon22]

Or more to the point why skates suitable for 80x aren't held in all of GWR's rolling stock depots.

They have tried to source them from Hitachi's depot at Ashford and to see if they are compatible also. Also some from a depot in the North which are apparently out of calibration. But certainly at North Pole or Stoke Gifford you might expect some to be on site.

Most services are running as booked albeit with some delays - some TfL services are skipping Twyford & Maidenhead to ease the congestion on the Up Relief, and some GWR services (namely Bedwyn / Newbury services) are starting at Reading.

The fault required a side-side evacuation onto a train sitting on the Down Main last night at around 0200.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Perhaps they are very very rarely needed.

 

[Tw99]

Pity it didn't die a few hundred yards earlier, then they could have used Ruscombe Jnc and reduced the use of the relief line to a mile or so.

 

[Domh245]

Perhaps they are very very rarely needed.

Even if rarely needed, the cost incurred in delay minutes would surely far outweigh the cost of having a set at even just one of the western IEP depots.

 

[Horizon22]

Pity it didn't die a few hundred yards earlier, then they could have used Ruscombe Jnc and reduced the use of the relief line to a mile or so.

Yeah I think part of the train is over some of the junction itself - if not at least in the signal overlap.

Even if rarely needed, the cost incurred in delay minutes would surely far outweigh the cost of having a set at even just one of the western IEP depots.

To an extent - it would be quite tight to have got it done before the morning service was started, and its not the sort of move you want to do at regular hours of traffic (requiring multiple line blocks to arrange the skates and then 5-10mph running).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even if rarely needed, the cost incurred in delay minutes would surely far outweigh the cost of having a set at even just one of the western IEP depots.

I don't know what they cost, knowing the railway quite a lot, but offset that against a full refund to everyone on that train plus taxis...

 

[Horizon22]

I don't know what they cost, knowing the railway quite a lot, but offset that against a full refund to everyone on that train plus taxis...

There weren't many passengers on board (considering it was 2300 on Sunday, about 40), but I take your point this issue could have happened at any time.

 

[pdeaves]

I don't know what they cost, knowing the railway quite a lot, but offset that against a full refund to everyone on that train plus taxis...

Buying an extra skate or two would do nothing for those on the train (whether the specific one in the incident or any other hypothetical future incident). They would still be delayed, need taxis, etc. As pointed out, whilst there is disruption now, it's not that bad for the most part.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Buying an extra skate or two would do nothing for those on the train (whether the specific one in the incident or any other hypothetical future incident). They would still be delayed, need taxis, etc. As pointed out, whilst there is disruption now, it's not that bad for the most part.

Agreed regarding the immediate problem, but what if it had failed on a two track section of railway? Even saving 3 or 4 hours could be a big saving there to pay for the skates and their upkeep.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I don't know what they cost, knowing the railway quite a lot, but offset that against a full refund to everyone on that train plus taxis...

That cost doesn't come into the equation

 

[Bletchleyite]

That cost doesn't come into the equation

Well, it should. If it doesn't, it perhaps explains why the railway doesn't treat leaving passengers stranded for hours more seriously.

 

[Domh245]

To an extent - it would be quite tight to have got it done before the morning service was started, and its not the sort of move you want to do at regular hours of traffic (requiring multiple line blocks to arrange the skates and then 5-10mph running).

That's a fair point, the pendolino that had a failed axle earlier in the year took best part of a week to recover to Glasgow if I remember rightly. It still strikes me as a fairly obvious mitigation to have in place though, waiting for the skate to be delivered from wherever else it is (or, if it was already in use on a slow recovery drag!) would start delaying the rescue operation

As pointed out, whilst there is disruption now, it's not that bad for the most part.

Checking recenttraintimes, it's hardly good - there's quite a few cancellations jumping out at me.

Even then, I would think that lots of 'little disruptions' (I think TOCs start getting delay minute fines from 5 minutes late now, per station) would quickly add up. And indeed, whilst this is a "not that bad", it's not hard to imagine it sitting down elsewhere and causing even more disruption. It's not like wheel skates are a disposable item either, there's no doubt a steep purchase cost (because £ailway) but then it can sit in a cupboard for as long as the 80x are in operation with little more than occasional greasing in the way of maintenance, no?

 

[Horizon22]

The set is in the progress of being moved slightly on the way towards Twyford and then onwards to Reading or Farnham Road sidings (with a suitable gap). Presumably to be taken to North Pole Depot later tonight when the service frequency decreases. Clearing Ruscombe Junction would be good to allow trains to run on the Relief lines for less time.

 

[alangla]

Even if rarely needed, the cost incurred in delay minutes would surely far outweigh the cost of having a set at even just one of the western IEP depots.

Doesn’t even need to be a Western one, given the number of 80x units operating into London for GWR, LNER, Lumo and soon EMR and Avanti West Coast, then keeping a standby set of various things needed to remobilise a stranded train in one of the London depots for fast road delivery to wherever would seem sensible. As others have said, substitute Twyford for Welwyn North…

 

[43096]

Doesn’t even need to be a Western one, given the number of 80x units operating into London for GWR, LNER, Lumo and soon EMR and Avanti West Coast, then keeping a standby set of various things needed to remobilise a stranded train in one of the London depots for fast road delivery to wherever would seem sensible. As others have said, substitute Twyford for Welwyn North…

You would think that keeping the one set of wheelskates at either North Pole or Bounds Green is rather more central to the entire 80x fleet than Craigentinny. Another Hitachi fail.

 

[Siemens Staines]

I hear that the set of wheelskates actually used last night came from Wigan. A bit closer than Edinburgh, but still not very handy for GWML. Why there would be a set in Wigan in the first place seems strange to me unless maybe it was something to do with TPE? 8Z70 shows on opentrainsmaps to be in Slough Goods sidings today.

 

[pdeaves]

I hear that the set of wheelskates actually used last night came from Wigan. A bit closer than Edinburgh, but still not very handy for GWML. Why there would be a set in Wigan in the first place seems strange to me unless maybe it was something to do with TPE? 8Z70 shows on opentrainsmaps to be in Slough Goods sidings today.

Was it the skate(s), or the DB train recovery crew from Wigan?

 

[Siemens Staines]

Good point. It is possible that I misunderstood and that the skates came from Edinburgh to Wigan and then with the recovery crew to the site?

 

[Horizon22]

Was it the skate(s), or the DB train recovery crew from Wigan?

It was the skates. They were initially deemed unsuitable but DB and Hitachi seemingly came to an understanding.

Edit: This was the move last night from Twyford (8Z70) - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:81667/2021-11-23/detailed

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

How much does a set of skates to move one carriage/two bogies cost?

 

[pdeaves]

This was the move last night from Twyford (8Z70) - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:81667/2021-11-23/detailed

Just for amusement's sake, I note 'Planned for 100mph max'! (yes, there are reasons). The 30 minutes from Burnham to Slough (and similar long durations elsewhere on that run) would have driven me mad; glad I wasn't involved in any way.

 

[Horizon22]

I agree it would have been excruciatingly slow as a driver! The intention is for it to move to North Pole depot on Friday at max 10mph.

 

[The exile]

Well, it should. If it doesn't, it perhaps explains why the railway doesn't treat leaving passengers stranded for hours more seriously.

The point is that those costs are going to be incurred anyway - even if the wheel skates and staff needed all happen to be on the train involved.

 

[pdeaves]

The point is that those costs are going to be incurred anyway - even if the wheel skates and staff needed all happen to be on the train involved.

Exactly. You don't just bung a skate under in 30 seconds and carry on at line speed!