Fantasy: Given no limits, how would you modernise your line?

[whhistle]

Maglev ECML/WCML/GWML/MML for starters.

Close MML and iron out the kinks.
Iron out a few more kinks on WCML and GWML.

Operating speeds of 250-300mph (at least).

 

[Warwick]

Install a sophisticated in-cab signalling system everywhere and so abolish all this route learning stuff. The display would show a continuous display of permitted speeds and braking points. All the driver would have to do is to keep to the speed shown and brake when advised. Ignoring any of the instruction would result in a brake application.
How hard would that be in the 21st century?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Install a sophisticated in-cab signalling system everywhere and so abolish all this route learning stuff. The display would show a continuous display of permitted speeds and braking points. All the driver would have to do is to keep to the speed shown and brake when advised. Ignoring any of the instruction would result in a brake application.
How hard would that be in the 21st century?

Then have guard-only[1] operation instead of DOO, which would provide a significant safety and customer service benefit. If you're going to have only one member of staff, have them doing stuff they are good at (dealing with people) and not things they aren't (acting as some kind of automaton when an actual automaton can do it better and will never make a mistake).

[1] Guards would have additional training e.g. to drive manually on sight at low speed to the next platform in event of a total system breakdown.

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

FEASIBLE FANTASY IDEAS:

• Upgrade WCML signalling on the high-speed sections to a form of in-cab signalling.
• Increase EPS speeds to 140 from 125 on the fast lines, and to at least 100 on the slow.
• Bring all Class 390 units to 11-coaches, and all Class 221 units to 7/8-coaches.
• Increase all local services into Liverpool Lime Street to at least 3/4-coaches.

LESS FEASIBLE FANTASY IDEAS:

• Rebuild and reopen Liverpool Exchange and send all local services there instead.
• Thus free open space at Lime Street for more express services to Scotland and London.
• Bring back some Beeching routes through the city like the old bike path through Broadway.
• Get more Pendolinos and replace the Voyagers on electrified routes on the WCML.
• Thus increasing Chester/North Wales capacity and bring in more of the latter services.

AND MOST DIFFICULT YET PROBABLY INEVITABLE:

• Switch to the darn metric system!

Ultimate fantasy idea:

De-electrify all routes
Scrap all DMUs and EMUs
All services to be operated by diesel locomotives and coaching stock
Coaching stock to be fitted with droplights and opening windows above each seating bay

Might as well go all the way back to steam locomotives then! After all, if any kind of train is a proper train, it's the good old kettles!

 

[Warwick]

Then have guard-only[1] operation instead of DOO, which would provide a significant safety and customer service benefit. If you're going to have only one member of staff, have them doing stuff they are good at (dealing with people) and not things they aren't (acting as some kind of automaton when an actual automaton can do it better and will never make a mistake).

[1] Guards would have additional training e.g. to drive manually on sight at low speed to the next platform in event of a total system breakdown.

It's not the Driver that you do away with. It's the person known as a Guard who doesn't actually guard anything nowadays. Have a second person on a non suburban train - let's call them a Train Conductor - who's trained in First Aid, has good and proven passenger relations and looks and dresses the part. He/she/it can also carry out ticket checks too, selling one to a passenger who is without. They could also earn a little extra by reward by being able to converse in a second recognised language.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Rebuild and reopen Liverpool Exchange and send all local services there instead.

You mean "totally infeasible"? It's facing the wrong way.

If you wanted to take services out of Lime St, you'd want to reopen Central High Level instead, which is rather more feasible (it's only got an ageing shopping centre and a couple of industrial units on top of Low Level).

There would be a few benefits of doing that - not least better connectivity to Merseyrail for local services, as Central has both Northern and Wirral lines. Though I would agree unlikely to happen.

And you could get some of the benefits by extending Merseyrail to Warrington Central (2tph past Hunts Cross), allowing the withdrawal of the CLC stopping services on that side of Warrington, leaving only the fasts and a Warrington Central-Manchester Oxford Road local service perhaps at 2tph. Stops at Edge Hill, Mossley Hill, West Allerton and South Parkway could be picked up by the LNR EMUs, and a South Parkway to Hunts Cross service is unnecessary because Merseyrail already provides one.

 

[ShwervinMervin]

No way!

Might as well go all the way back to steam locomotives then! After all, if any kind of train is a proper train, it's the good old kettles!

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

You mean "totally infeasible"? It's facing the wrong way.

So turn it around then. Just use a big cursor and select he asset and do a full rotation like a giant 3D modelling program. What could be simpler than that?

If you wanted to take services out of Lime St, you'd want to reopen Central High Level instead, which is rather more feasible (it's only got an ageing shopping centre and a couple of industrial units on top of Low Level).

It's funny, cause looking at old pictures Central High Level looks like a mini-version of Lime Street with it's arch design, platform layout and tunnel entrance. I wonder if there was ever any plans to discuss the rebuilding and reopening of Central high level though given how it could increase capacity around the corner, but then you only said it was more feasible than an already infeasible idea. I imagine though that could be like saying surviving a plane crash is more feasible than swimming to the bottom of the ocean without being crushed. Possible in comparison, but unlikely in itself.

There would be a few benefits of doing that - not least better connectivity to Merseyrail for local services, as Central has both Northern and Wirral lines. Though I would agree unlikely to happen.

It's funny, cause I never understood why Liverpool Central had both Merseyrail lines despite Liverpool Lime Street being the mainline station of Liverpool, and such it is only natural to have both lines. It was only a few years ago when I found out it's history was to why that is the case and what had happened. Seems strange but I suppose it had to be done because it was the best that could be done.

And you could get some of the benefits by extending Merseyrail to Warrington Central (2tph past Hunts Cross), allowing the withdrawal of the CLC stopping services on that side of Warrington, leaving only the fasts and a Warrington Central-Manchester Oxford Road local service perhaps at 2tph. Stops at Edge Hill, Mossley Hill, West Allerton and South Parkway could be picked up by the LNR EMUs, and a South Parkway to Hunts Cross service is unnecessary because Merseyrail already provides one.

Warrington connectivity can be a pain! The fact my change requires me to walk a distance between Central and Bank Quay if I want to travel up north is a bit of pain, especially when you have time constraints. One time when getting back from Glasgow Central was I relying on getting into Warrington on time and catching a bus all the way back to the city, yet because it was late due to some kind of fault I ended up missing it. Was stuck waiting another whole hour before getting home later than planned. Don't know why Bank Quay-Liverpool trains stop at a certain time, but for some reason they do.

 

[Berneylegs]

Turning Midland Mainline into a maglev high speed service to Wick with a brand new line straight up the centre of Great Britain, London to Wick in 75 minutes, time to enjoy a meal enroute

 

[muddythefish]

Make all major city terminus stations (including London but excepting those on the coast obviously) through stations.

Reopen the many-east west lines closed, especially in the Midlands, under Beeching and before.

 

[Strathclyder]

North Clyde & Argyle Lines (excluding the Finnieston-Hyndland section, as that has already been mentioned upthread).

• Completely redouble the Helensburgh (Craigendoran-Helensburgh Central), Balloch (Dalreoch Junction-Balloch) & Milngavie (several sections from & including Westerton Junction to Milngavie) branch lines & bring second platforms back into use at the relevant stations (Craigendoran, Renton, Alexandria & Balloch); eradicating three notorious bottlenecks & increasing the resilience of the network as a whole.
• Refurbish or replace all 1960s/1970s station buildings on both lines.
• Totally modernise both lines' underground stations within Glasgow City Centre (Exhibition Centre, Anderston, Central Low Level, Argyle Street, Charing Cross, Queen St Low Level & High Street) to bring them all up to 21st century standards, with Anderston being given top priority (simply because it's an embarrassing pit of a station and has been for years now).
• Find & completely eradicate the cause of Dalmarnock's persistent flooding issues.
• Redouble the section of line immediately north of Hamilton Central station headed for Haughhead Junction (for the Larkhall branch)
• Completely rebuild Motherwell station.
• Give Coatbridge Central a much-needed makeover, focusing on that underpass linking the two platforms.

 

[Whattraintoday]

Calder Valley line:
- Electrification
- Line speed upgrades to 100mph
- ETCS3 with ATO and moving blocks
- FOGB free car park at Low Moor, rename it 'Leeds & Bradford M62 Park & Ride'


In reality, I'd be happy if they just employed someone to quickly run a vacuum over the seats at night. Northern have completely broken me, I no longer know hope.

 

[Esker-pades]

Far North:
Lentran Loop
Dornoch Rail Link
Additional passing loop between Helmsdale and Forsinard (Kinbrace)
Additional passing loop between Forsinard and Georgemas Junction (Altnabreac)
2nd platform at Georgemas Junction
Station at Halkirk
Wick shuttle to reduce journey times
Hourly service to Dingwall & Tain
Additional station at Evanton

Kyle:
Additional passing loop between Garve and Dingwall
Additional passing loop between Strathcarron and Kyle of Lochalsh

Highland Main Line:
Double track throughout

 

[backontrack]

Far North:
Lentran Loop
Dornoch Rail Link
Additional passing loop between Helmsdale and Forsinard (Kinbrace)
Additional passing loop between Forsinard and Georgemas Junction (Altnabreac)
2nd platform at Georgemas Junction
Station at Halkirk
Wick shuttle to reduce journey times
Hourly service to Dingwall & Tain
Additional station at Evanton

Kyle:
Additional passing loop between Garve and Dingwall
Additional passing loop between Strathcarron and Kyle of Lochalsh

Highland Main Line:
Double track throughout

Ooh, definitely I'd add in a loop at Evanton, the Georgemas Chord, and feasibility studies for stations at Kirkhill, Beechwood and Culloden - but all of the above improvements would be fantastic...

 

[Esker-pades]

Ooh, definitely I'd add in a loop at Evanton, the Georgemas Chord, and feasibility studies for stations at Kirkhill, Beechwood and Culloden - but all of the above improvements would be fantastic...

Cater for the commuters at the south of it and make journey times better for people in the north. Sexy.

 

[najaB]

I've a choice as to which is 'my' line, but I'll go with Edinburgh to Aberdeen. In no particular order:

• Double-track Usan to Montrose
• Fix the Tay Bridge to remove the single train restriction on the high spans
• Remove the slow restrictions between Inverkeithing and Tay Bridge (or bypass the Fife coast completely)
• Electrify througout

 

[backontrack]

Cater for the commuters at the south of it and make journey times better for people in the north. Sexy.

Yeah. Figuratively speaking.

 

[InterCity:125]

Let the Germans, French or even better the Japanese take over

 

[bussnapperwm]

Snow Hill and associated lines:

• Improve headways to 5 minute headways
• Electrify Moor Street to Rowley so we can have electric services calling all stations, continuing via a new curve from Moor Street to reach the Camp Hill lines with new stations all the way to Kings Norton.
• At the same time as the new electric services, reducing the diesel services calling at Jewellery Quarter and the Hawthorns
• Four track between Galton Bridge and New Street so XC could run a 2nd service each hour Cardiff to Birmingham with the new service calling at Rowley and Stourbridge plus LNWR could run a hourly Euston - Rowley Regis via Weedon and New Street (splitting off a joint Walsall to Euston service at New Street)
• Extra services call at Lye and Old Hill

• Bay platform at the Birmingham end of Rowley Regis to allow for said electric services to run.
• Add a new connection from the Stourbridge Town branch so trains could run direct into platform 2 at Stourbridge Junction, and a crossover at the Worcester end so trains can turn at Stourbridge to go back to Worcester.
• Extend platform 1 at Stourbridge Town to two car 158 length (with a new Platform 2 taking other the current roadspace of Parkfield Road and divert the GWR Malvern to Southampton service there (so it does not serve Malvern). A replacement service operated by 4 car (splitting) 172s would operate from a new station at Brierley Hill with one portion splitting at Droitwich for Great Malvern and Hereford, and the other one going to Cheltenham and Gloucester.

Finally

• Make the remaining Stourbridge Town branch service a 2 car version of the class 139 with an increase to every 7 minutes

 

[Aictos]

As this is fantasy land, I would like to see the following at one stage or other:

ECML:

Reopening of Leamside Line
GNGE Joint Line to be electrified including Lincoln to Newark Northgate
Platforms 6 and 7 at Peterborough to be electrified
Signalling headways to be improved on the Hertford Loop especially north of Hertford North
London Overground to run the ex GN Inners
Platform 5 at Stevenage to be built with passive build to be be a though line in future
Hertford North to have Platforms 1 to 3 extended northwards with all platforms being 164m and all platforms being though platforms
At the same time of the Hertford Platforms being extended, step free access to Platform 1 and the unused face opposite Platform 1 to be brought into use
Hand over management of Fen Line stations and Waterbeach to the Anglia franchise with Foxton being the last station managed by the GN/TL franchise

WCML:

The West London Line between East Croydon and Milton Keynes Central to be curtailed to Watford Junction and the Tring stoppers extended to Milton Keynes
Bedford to Bletchley services to be extended to Milton Keynes Central especially in the peaks
LNWR services to be formed of a mix of 8 to 12 cars
All WMT services to be formed of 6 cars
Leamington Spa to Nuneaton via Coventry to be electrified
Windermere and Morecambe branches to be electrified

MML:

Bedford to Doncaster/Wakefield Westgate via Sheffield to be electrified
Leicester to Nottingham, Peterborough and Nuneaton to be electrified
Bedford and Luton to be remodelled to cater for future growth
MML IC Sheffield services to be extended to York which would help XC IC services between Derby and York formed of 9 cars

GWML:

Bristol Parkway to Swansea including Cardiff Valleys to be electrified
Swindon to Bristol Temple Meads via Bath Spa to be electrified
Bristol Temple Meads to Exeter St Davids via Taunton to be electrified
Exeter St Davids to Barnstaple, Paignton and Exmouth to be electrified and form a modernised Devon Metro
Barnstaple branch to be dual tracked and second platform at Barnstaple
Newton Abbot to Plymouth to be electrified
Didcot Parkway to Banbury to be electrified
Newbury to Taunton via Westbury to be electrified
North Downs Line to be electrified

Chilterns:

London Marylebone to Oxford and Banbury to be electrified as well as Princes Risborough to Aylesbury
Banbury to Leamington Spa to be electrified
Leamington Spa to Birmingham Snow Hill to be electrified
Birmingham Snow Hill to Worcester Foregate Street to be electrified
Stratford-upon-Avon to Hatton and Small Heath to be electrified
Amersham to Aylesbury to be handed over to the Met

XC:

Derby to Bristol Parkway via Birmingham New Street to be electrified
More 10 and 11 car services
Manchester Piccadilly to York via Leeds to be electrified
Manchester Piccadilly to Doncaster via Sheffield to be electrified
Birmingham New Street to Cardiff and Nottingham to be electrified
Nuneaton to Birmingham New Street via Coleshill Parkway to be electrified
Leeds to Preston via Bradford Interchange to be electrified
Colne to Blackpool South to be electrified
Blackpool South and Colne branch to be dualled and service expanded
Skipton to Colne built and electrified as either ends would be electrified
Bradford Interchange to Manchester and Liverpool to be electrified
Doncaster to Hull to be electrified
Southampton to Bath Spa to be electrified

Merseyrail:

Borderlands Line to be electrified and handed over to Merseyrail
Kirby line services extended to Skelmersdale and Wigan Wallgate also to be electrified
Ormskirk to Preston to be electrified
Southport to Wigan Wallgate to be electrified

Wales:

Cardiff to Gloucester to be electrified
Crewe to Chester to be electrified

Scotland:

Dunbar to have second platform built
North Berwick services to be extended to the Fife Circle
South Suburban Line at Edinburgh to be electrified and stations reopened
Alloa to Fife Circle to be electrified
Stirling to Perth to be electrified
Edinburgh to Perth via Ladybank to be electrified
Perth to Dundee to be electrified
Glasgow Queen Street to Anniesland to be electrified
Glasgow Queen Street to Edinburgh via Cumbernauld to be electrified

Anglia:

Fen Line stations and Waterbeach station handed over to be managed by Anglia
West Anglia Main Line to be four tracked
Half Hourly service between Kings Lynn and Cambridge with services alternating between Liverpool Street and Kings Cross
Ely to Peterborough, Norwich and Ipswich to be electrified
Ely West Curve brought back into use for Norwich to Liverpool services

Southern:

Basingstoke to Salisbury to be electrified
Existing DMU services in Eastleigh area to be converted to EMU
GTR Southern Brighton to Ashford International to be curtailed to Hastings
South Eastern to take over Hastings to Ashford International services with the route being electrified

Rolling Stock:

All options for new rolling stock to be used such as extending all 8 car Class 700s to 12 cars
A extra 10 Class 717s to expand the fleet

 

[Agent_Squash]

Windermere and Morecambe branches to be electrified

Would the Barrow branch be worth electrifying in your opinion, considering it is much busier than the Morecambe branch?

 

[chris_in_salop]

3 trains per hour (evenly-spaced, say every 20 minutes) all day between Birmingham and Shrewsbury would be good. And something - I'm not sure what - to increase the line speeds between Shrewsbury and Wolves, as currently it seems to be rather slow. Maybe even re-design Shrewsbury station so it isn't such a miserable congested mess inside, give Telford Central better facilities on both platforms (more shelter from the rain on platform 2 would be a start), and make the passenger experience at Wolves station a bit better. But these are only grumbles - I'm sure that there are places that are a lot worse out there.

 

[InterCity:125]

Re open all the lines beeching and British rail closed

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Let the Germans, French or even better the Japanese take over

I thought this was a fantasy thread!

 

[InterCity:125]

I thought this was a fantasy thread!

Ha, they already own most of the network don’t they!

 

[Esker-pades]

3 trains per hour (evenly-spaced, say every 20 minutes) all day between Birmingham and Shrewsbury would be good. And something - I'm not sure what - to increase the line speeds between Shrewsbury and Wolves, as currently it seems to be rather slow. Maybe even re-design Shrewsbury station so it isn't such a miserable congested mess inside, give Telford Central better facilities on both platforms (more shelter from the rain on platform 2 would be a start), and make the passenger experience at Wolves station a bit better. But these are only grumbles - I'm sure that there are places that are a lot worse out there.

How many would be all stations and how many would be Wellington & Telford only?

 

[Killingworth]

Signalling. Overnight remove all old systems in trains, lineside and control rooms. Replace with state of the art central controls (devoid of vulnerable wiring) and standard in cab displays. Headways to be reduced to maximum 2 minutes on open track, 1 minute on slow station approaches.

Trouble is the overnight part is impossible. We've been trying to do it for decades and every improvement is out of date before it's half way complete meaning multiple systems scattered around trains and tracks.

6 minute headways on parts of my line mean any train delayed is likely to cause more delays to others than should need to occur.

 

[xotGD]

This thread started back in December. Just imagine the ridicule if one of the early posts from a resident of Kendal had suggested that their local line be operated by top & tail heritage locomotives on a set of Mark IIs!

 

[benbristow]

Can't complain too much about my main line (Paisley Gilmour Street to Glasgow Central Ayrshire line)

On my commute line though (Glasgow Central/East Kilbride) it'd be nice to see it electrified to allow for better trains (stuck with noisy Class 156s at the moment) and have it double tracked between Busby and East Kilbride. Always causes a wait at Busby as you wait for train going the other way to clear the single track.

 

[Aictos]

Would the Barrow branch be worth electrifying in your opinion, considering it is much busier than the Morecambe branch?

I'm not too familiar with the branches but ideally all three would be done using a shared pool of EMUs.