Fare Evasion: My silly mistake...

[avrilpowers]

Hello, I’m hoping somebody can help me.

Yes, I’m one of those silly people that tried to get a cheaper ticket on the the train, so please, no judging, I just need some help. I am in a complete mess and panicking about a criminal record as I work as a teacher and one moment of complete stupidness is ruining my life at the moment.

In June 2018 I boarded the Arriva Trains Wales service from Llanelli to Cardiff. I am not a regular train user but was taking advantage of the service this day as I was visiting Cardiff for an Ed Sheeran concert.

As there was a large queue at the ticket office when we arrived me and my friends decided to purchase our tickets on the train, alike I had done on the rare occasion that I have used trains in the past. By the time we had got to Cardiff nobody had been around to sell tickets, so we followed the queue to purchase tickets at the barriers.

When purchasing my ticket, in a split moment of what I can only put down to severe error and lack of judgement, I requested to purchase a ticket from Bridgend, a nearer station to my final destination, alike what a friend had told me that they had done in the past. This very poor and foolish decision was not properly considered at all and was completely out of character after a couple of alcoholic drinks. I was then spoken to by an authorised member of staff who informed me that I could not have possibly got on at Bridgend due to a barrier system being in place and I had broken the law. He took my details. I was very apologetic and offered to pay my fare but I was informed that it was too late.

I then received a letter 30 days later giving me with the opportunity to provide mitigation. I did so with a grovelling letter, explaining my silliness and offering an administrative settlement. I then waited another month and have just received a second letter explaining that there is no reason for me to not be summoned to court and I’ve been given another 14 days to reply. I rung the TIL and asked for a further explanation and the woman on the phone mentioned a reply offering an administrative settlement, but I had already put that in my first letter. Do you think they want me to provide a figure? I’m so worried about this whole situation and my mental health is suffering, I just really want this to all be over. I really need/want to avoid court.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
TIA x

 

[yorkie]

I'm not sure; some train companies will settle for a relatively low amount and some won't settle without a much higher amount being offered. The complication here is that Arriva Trains Wales have subcontracted this to TIL.

It's not clear what offence you would be prosecuted for, but if it does go to court and it's a Regulation of Railways Act offence, rather than a byelaw offence, then you'll probably be wanting to appoint a solicitor to try to defend your case. On the day, TIL might agree a settlement as they might not want to proceed with it, as the burden of proof is on them.

On the other hand, if it's just a byelaw offence then this doesn't come with a criminal record, and doesn't require intent, so you may as well plead guilty and be done with it, as it's harder to get out of, and you wouldn't need to disclose this to your employer.

 

[avrilpowers]

It’s a Regulation of Railways Act Offence so is there any point in appointing a solicitor when I am guilty and in my letter I admitted what I had done? They also took evidence on the day in the form of a statement and signature from myself.

 

[yorkie]

Probably not, if they are determined to prosecute, but if you are desperate to avoid a criminal record and if they won't settle, it's worth a try in my opinion.

Try calling them to negotiate an amount, however some companies refuse to talk by phone, so that might not work. You could try contacting ATW directly but they may just say TIL are dealing with it. You could try writing to them offering a substantial amount but I really don't know what they'd settle for, and some companies just refuse to settle at all (they don't have to).

 

[avrilpowers]

Yeah, it’s something to consider. When I sent my letter of mitagation I sent it to ATW at the same time. I had a reply from them first explaining that they could not get involved as it was down to TIL. I don’t even know where to start with an offer, but I really am determined to do anything I can to keep it out of court. It is the first and last time I will ever make such a stupid mistake. It has caused me so much mental stress and anxiety.

 

[furlong]

If you look at previous threads on here, TIL seems uninterested in requests for settlement, but people who persist with ATW directly after the stage you reached (when it goes back to ATW for review and authorisation I think) have still reported success at a later stage. So don't give up.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Two things to consider. If you are a member of a teacher’s union you might have some free legal advice available. I’m a member of NASUWT and know that they offer such a service.

Secondly even if this ends with a criminal conviction this does not spell the end of your career. Strongly suggest you speak to your headteacher and explain the situation now. Short faring does not mean you are a risk to students, so highly unlikely you will be suspended pending dismissal. Even with a conviction you are unlikely to be dismissed for this alone, as long as you have declared it. Hiding any conviction would be worse than the actual conviction.

 

[avrilpowers]

Ah yes! I am a member of the NEU, I will give them a call tomorrow and see if they can help. And I will also speak to my head teacher this week I think, just to make her aware. Thank you for the advice.

 

[najaB]

Hiding any conviction would be worse than the actual conviction.

This cannot be stressed enough. The only people I have seen fired in relation to a minor offence lost their jobs because of the lie, rather than the conviction.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

A few things to add to the good advice that has already been given:

1) Whatever happens, you won't go to prison. Although the punishments available to the courts for fare evasion include (depending on the charge) imprisonment, in practice the only time that is considered is where they are dealing with long standing and frequent offenders: I would speculate that the sentencing guidelines strongly discourage imprisonment for this, and magistrates will only use it if everything else has failed, or it's seen as the only way for the offender to get help.
2) If the railway do accept a payment from you, expect it to be quite substantial (in the hundreds of pounds). They will, of course, want the train fare you should have paid. They will also want the cost of their investigation to be covered. So if you write to suggest a settlement, bear this in mind.
3) Going to court and pleading guilty, however, will be even more expensive. You have admitted the facts so I assume you will plead guilty. That means (as with agreeing an out of court settlement) paying the fare and the other side's costs. It also means paying a fine and court costs.
4) So taking all the above into account, the advice to talk to your union's members' legal service is very good indeed. As soon as you have a bit of free time, do it.
5) If you're like most teachers I know, you'll have already done this - but make sure your name on this forum isn't your everyday school name. Children are remarkably able at finding out what their teachers have been doing out of class, and if this is to get round the school, you'd probably prefer it to be at a time of your choosing...

 

[30907]

I am a recently retired school governor, and I would concur with talking to your union and, subject to their advice, your HT. I can see no grounds for suspension even if convicted, but if you apply for a new post you must obviously declare an unspent conviction (and think what you might say to a follow-up question at interview about school ethos - I wouldn't call it a mistake!).

 

[avrilpowers]

I am a recently retired school governor, and I would concur with talking to your union and, subject to their advice, your HT. I can see no grounds for suspension even if convicted, but if you apply for a new post you must obviously declare an unspent conviction (and think what you might say to a follow-up question at interview about school ethos - I wouldn't call it a mistake!).

Thank you for your advice! It was one very silly mistake but I completely understand where you’re coming from, a moment of complete madness and lack of judgement probably describes it best...

 

[avrilpowers]

A few things to add to the good advice that has already been given:

1) Whatever happens, you won't go to prison. Although the punishments available to the courts for fare evasion include (depending on the charge) imprisonment, in practice the only time that is considered is where they are dealing with long standing and frequent offenders: I would speculate that the sentencing guidelines strongly discourage imprisonment for this, and magistrates will only use it if everything else has failed, or it's seen as the only way for the offender to get help.
2) If the railway do accept a payment from you, expect it to be quite substantial (in the hundreds of pounds). They will, of course, want the train fare you should have paid. They will also want the cost of their investigation to be covered. So if you write to suggest a settlement, bear this in mind.
3) Going to court and pleading guilty, however, will be even more expensive. You have admitted the facts so I assume you will plead guilty. That means (as with agreeing an out of court settlement) paying the fare and the other side's costs. It also means paying a fine and court costs.
4) So taking all the above into account, the advice to talk to your union's members' legal service is very good indeed. As soon as you have a bit of free time, do it.
5) If you're like most teachers I know, you'll have already done this - but make sure your name on this forum isn't your everyday school name. Children are remarkably able at finding out what their teachers have been doing out of class, and if this is to get round the school, you'd probably prefer it to be at a time of your choosing...

I am happy to pay whatever if it means I can keep such a silly mistake out of court. Paying is not an easy way out for me either but I feel money is no object compared to my mental health and well-being going forward.

 

[Puffing Devil]

3) Going to court and pleading guilty, however, will be even more expensive. You have admitted the facts so I assume you will plead guilty. That means (as with agreeing an out of court settlement) paying the fare and the other side's costs. It also means paying a fine and court costs.

Not necessarily - all fines are income related and with an early guilty plea it's likely to be 33% of weekly salary + costs + victim surcharge.

NB - costs aside, an out of court settlement is normally a better option, as it leaves your formal record squeaky clean.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I requested to purchase a ticket from Bridgend, a nearer station to my final destination, alike what a friend had told me that they had done in the past.

You might want to get this "friend" to make a £contribution or even review their friend status!

It maybe a silly mistake to you but as you can see its not to ATW/TIL the practice of "short faring" has been endemic across South Wales and is not viewed lightly and as you can see it is being clamped down on. The imminent change of franchise might have a bearing on your case, depending on whether KeolisAmey will want to continue to work with TIL or not. There's a chance if they don't that TIl will happy to clear a case off their books from an old contract but don't bank on it. Conversely KeolisAmey have signed up to certain financial targets and may want to send a message out about the consequence of fare evasion early in their tenure.

 

[Surreytraveller]

This cannot be stressed enough. The only people I have seen fired in relation to a minor offence lost their jobs because of the lie, rather than the conviction.

Maybe its just easier to sack someone for lying, rather than having a conviction.

 

[Sirius]

Maybe its just easier to sack someone for lying, rather than having a conviction.

Well yes, I think that’s what was implied.

I know that for my employer failing to disclose certain criminal offences (e.g not speeding fines) would be considered misconduct. The implication from failing to disclose, when its in the standards of expected that you should, makes you fundamentally dishonest.

 

[najaB]

Maybe its just easier to sack someone for lying, rather than having a conviction.

More likely though is that dishonesty about one thing means that there's questions about honesty in other matters, which may lead to the company to disrepute.

 

[omen666]

This cannot be stressed enough. The only people I have seen fired in relation to a minor offence lost their jobs because of the lie, rather than the conviction.

Totally agree, I know people that have got SC clearance with both minor convictions and also several minor convictions all because they declared them. If you don't declare them and when they show on your check, and they will, you will not get the clearance.

Also please bear the bigger element in mind that most people don't know or consider that clearance can take some time and many employers will happily bring you on board whilst awaiting your background checks to come back. The time it takes for your background checks to come back depends on the type of clearance required for the role. It is not uncommon for say SC Clearance to come back anywhere between 3/4 weeks since submission upto 4-6 months.

If you declared to the employer/application form that you have no convictions when you do or declare some convictions/information but say hold back a certain conviction or provide untrue information you will almost guaranteed get a knock at the door from Her Majesty's finest. The offence almost always one of Fraud by False Representation & deception to gain a pecuniary advantage. Here is the rub though, the value of the fraud is calculated in value as to the amount of salary you have earned in the role from your start date until the date of dismissal when the checks come back.

So if you are employed on a salary of £40,000 PA and it takes 6 months before your checks comes back you'd be charged with Fraud by false representation of £19,999.99 and find yourself in chokey.

Worth a read
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-44972346

Recorder Martin Meeke QC rejected Andrewes's claim that he was entitled to keep the pay because he had worked hard and effectively, regardless of how he came to get the jobs.

He set the amount by which Andrewes had benefited as £643,000 but assessed his available assets as only £97,737.24.

The judge ordered him to pay this sum ...