Fare pricing query for Guildford to Haywards Heath

[infobleep]

I need to do an off peak day return journey from Guildford to Haywards Heath. Possibly this Thursday. If not another day very soon. .

Currently for most of the day it is faster to go via Clapham Junction, owing to the trains to Redhill not connecting well with trains from Redhill to Gatwick Airport. You just miss one and have to wait. There are no longer any direct trains to Gatwick Airport.

Now I was under the impression trains via Dorking Deepdene were cheaper than going via Clapham Junction. Looking at BR fares this is the case.

However on doing a search for Thursday, trains via Clapham Junction are coming out cheaper if I put in an outward time after 10:00 and a return after 17:00 . I have a gold card.

I would have expected the fare via Dorking Deepdene to be:
£12.60 or £14.15. The £14.15 fare seems to have no restrictions other than not travelling via Clapham Junction and the £12.60 has that and a restriction of W1.

For example the 10:34 Guildford via Clapham Junction is showing up as priced at £15.10. The 10:37 via Dorking Deepdene, Redhill and Gatwick is coming up at £24.10. 10:37 is one of the few trains that actually do connect with a Thameslink service at Redhill, making the journey faster than via Clapham Junction. The other two were this is the case is the 08:18 and 22:07.

For both the 10:34 and 10:37, all return journeys after 17:00 are showing up as valid

On a separate point. Does anyone know how busy trains are likely to be if travelling after 10:00. Is it easy to keep your 2m at all times? Being in the moderate risk group, I am making a serious effort to keep my distance from others. As much as I love train travel, I've not done any as I had no essential need since being asked to stay at home.

When doing exercise outside of my house, which I do about once a week, sometimes twice a week, I find most keep their distance but at least one person doesn't feel the need to do so and walks past within 2m. Hopefully people are better at this on the train.

How busy are the stations when you need to wait for a connecting train?

 

[Alex365Dash]

Both journeys via Clapham Junction or Dorking are priced at the Off-Peak Day Return fare, with the Clapham fare being only valid via Clapham Junction, whilst the Dorking fare (that you quoted) is an Any Permitted ticket.

It might've possibly shown an Any Permitted ticket for you because it's quicker to return via Clapham - although you can of course get the 'not via Clapham Junction' fare for £12.60 (with no evening restrictions), which would be valid for any return journey via Dorking and the 10:37 out, but that depends on whether you're fine with it being slower to go back that way.

 

[30907]

NRE is showing me the correct Not CLJ fare for the 10.37

 

[infobleep]

Both journeys via Clapham Junction or Dorking are priced at the Off-Peak Day Return fare, with the Clapham fare being only valid via Clapham Junction, whilst the Dorking fare (that you quoted) is an Any Permitted ticket.

It might've possibly shown an Any Permitted ticket for you because it's quicker to return via Clapham - although you can of course get the 'not via Clapham Junction' fare for £12.60 (with no evening restrictions), which would be valid for any return journey via Dorking and the 10:37 out, but that depends on whether you're fine with it being slower to go back that way.

I thought tickets via one route, if more expensive than another route, were also valid via the cheaper route.

 

[infobleep]

NRE is showing me the correct Not CLJ fare for the 10.37

What fare is it showing you? I'm using National Rail Enquiries App on my mobile.

 

[Paul Kelly]

I thought tickets via one route, if more expensive than another route, were also valid via the cheaper route.

If I'm understanding correctly that only applies to fares routed Any Permitted, travelling over a route that isn't permitted in the routeing guide BUT has a specific routed fare (valid due to "split via routeing") that is cheaper than that Any Permitted fare.

(Edited to add the below example)
An example from roughly the same part of the world would be Reading to East Croydon via Dorking. This is not a permitted route in the routeing guide, but there is a specific "VIA REDHILL" fare that allows you to go this way. Therefore the "ANY PERMITTED" fare is also valid this way, but the "NOT VIA LONDON" fare isn't, even though in some cases (e.g. for the Anytime Day Return) it is more expensive than the "VIA REDHILL" fare. This is because the rule only applies to "ANY PERMITTED" fares.

In this case the fares routed "CLAPHAM JUNCTION" are not valid on the route via Dorking, even though the "NOT VIA CLAPHM J" is cheaper, because the requirement to go via Clapham Junction still holds. If you wanted to go via Clapham Junction in one direction and via Dorking in the other, you would need to buy the cheaper fare (i.e. "NOT VIA CLAPHAM J") and get a change-of-route excess on one portion only, to the "CLAPHAM JUNCTION" fare.

 

[infobleep]

If I'm understanding correctly that only applies to fares routed Any Permitted, travelling over a route that isn't permitted in the routeing guide BUT has a specific routed fare (valid due to "split via routeing") that is cheaper than that Any Permitted fare.

(Edited to add the below example)
An example from roughly the same part of the world would be Reading to East Croydon via Dorking. This is not a permitted route in the routeing guide, but there is a specific "VIA REDHILL" fare that allows you to go this way. Therefore the "ANY PERMITTED" fare is also valid this way, but the "NOT VIA LONDON" fare isn't, even though in some cases (e.g. for the Anytime Day Return) it is more expensive than the "VIA REDHILL" fare. This is because the rule only applies to "ANY PERMITTED" fares.

In this case the fares routed "CLAPHAM JUNCTION" are not valid on the route via Dorking, even though the "NOT VIA CLAPHM J" is cheaper, because the requirement to go via Clapham Junction still holds. If you wanted to go via Clapham Junction in one direction and via Dorking in the other, you would need to buy the cheaper fare (i.e. "NOT VIA CLAPHAM J") and get a change-of-route excess on one portion only, to the "CLAPHAM JUNCTION" fare.

Thanks for that. I hadn't realised that nuance in the regulations.

 

[deltic]

Based on the trains I see going through Vauxhall I don’t see you having any problem on social distancing on board - you will be unlucky if you don’t have a coach to yourself

 

[infobleep]

Based on the trains I see going through Vauxhall I don’t see you having any problem on social distancing on board - you will be unlucky if you don’t have a coach to yourself

Thanks for that. I see Thursday is looking likely to be raining all day. That might also put others off going out for exercise, so I might have the pavements to myself too!

I don't like being beaten by the weather. So when it rains I find I become even more determined to do what I intended to do.

When I get to Haywards Heath I could catch a bus but given I have the ability to walk, even if it's 40 minutes or more I think that is better than getting on a small bus. For myself and it's driver.

 

[30907]

What fare is it showing you? I'm using National Rail Enquiries App on my mobile.

£12.60, but apologies, I think I may have used a random May date which showed the non-lockdown timetable.

 

[infobleep]

Interestingly via Redhill and Gatwick Airport might actuary be unofficially faster than vai Clapham Junction due to an unofficial connection of 7 minutes at Gatwick Airport.

That is easily doable. Just not official. Obviously I've not checked the return for doable unofficial connections. I think, from past experience, the main issue is connecting with a train to Redhill at Gatwick Airport. I will check it out though.