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Feeling flat after mmi

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Blueben

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Completed all assessments and MMI...although relieved, I feel absolutely drained, and exhausted and flat.

Feel like I have cocked up the MMI...at the time I thought I was doing ok, now major doubts have crept in.

It is what it is...just dredding the wait for any kind of news good or bad.

Sure there are many in this situation or many who have been here

All the best have a great weekend
 
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ComUtoR

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Sure there are many in this situation or many who have been here

Each part of my assessment day I thought I messed it up and had failed. Literally about 5 minutes before my MMI another candidate was telling me about emergency situations etc and did I have one (which I didn't) Suffice to say I had that sick feeling. During my MMI, when the dreaded question came up the interviewer refused my answer outright. She told me there and then that I needed an answer or the interview was over and I wouldn't pass. This was in the days where you didn't pre prep any questions.

Totally thought I failed.

Here I am some 15+ yrs later :)

All the best have a great weekend

You too and good luck with it.
 

Driver2B

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My MMI was dreadful!

The interviewer kept on asking me questions leading off of my intended route, then expected me to be able to pick up where I left off! I forgot where I was! He kept on asking me questions distracting me. In one case, he kept on asking me to change example. And I couldn't think of a keyword and he kept on saying "I know the word but I can't tell you" - I ended up having to define it!

I was a blithering mess and by the end and I had resigned myself to the fact that I'd failed before it was over.

It was (somehow ... I don't know how!) a pass!

To this very day, it bemuses me! ???!

You won't know until you hear the result ... trust me: it could surprise you!!!

Good luck!
 

Blueben

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Thanks guys

It’s not life or death...not been nervous at all but jeez feels so flat right now

Here’s hoping

Thanks for your positive thoughts
 
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To hear your stories give me great hope for the interview here’s hoping I reach that stage, waiting on being invited to the assessments next, I’ve been practicing like crazy.
 

Mike121

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The interviewers test you on putting pressure on you. And it’s how you behave towards that pressure that they are marking you on.
 

FManc

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When I did my MMI two years ago I 100% convinced myself I had failed. I was given a hypothetical sceneiro within one of the main qtns and I thought I totally messed it up and tried to backtrack etc...

I passed in the end!
 
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When I did my MMI two years ago I 100% convinced myself I had failed. I was given a hypothetical sceneiro within one of the main qtns and I thought I totally messed it up and tried to backtrack etc...

I passed in the end!

Are you or anyone else able to share any tips for the assessments and interviews?

That would be highly appreciated.
 

ComUtoR

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Can I ask what your answer was?

Went to work one morning, got a call from the missus. She woke up with blood everywhere on the bedsheets. She was in a major panic as she was pregnant and suffice to say this wasn't a good sign. She ended up in hospital.

and the reason they had for refusing it straight off the bat?

Pregnancy and its relative complications are considered 'expected' My next answer was about encountering a fire on a country lane. This wasn't sufficient either as all I did was call the Fire Brigade.

On the spot with nothing but minutes left to pull it out the bag. Whilst she is telling me that I will fail if I can't find an answer; I reached in deep...

Part of why I never like canned answers is because you often get so focused on a rote answer that when you get hit by any kind of curveball you aren't able to think on your feet because you get in a panic or flustered. As everyone will tell you. You give an outline of an answer and then the interviewer will pull it apart and delve deeper and pull a more in depth answer out of you.
 

MidlandsChap

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On the spot with nothing but minutes left to pull it out the bag. Whilst she is telling me that I will fail if I can't find an answer; I reached in deep...

Was the final answer you gave that much of an emergency? or was it just something that you took control of and personally sorted? The emergency situations I have been around have not involved me that much. I have examples of times I have had to act fast but have not been really urgent life of death kind of events. And the problem is I dont remember all the finer details because they were less dramatic therefore I might not be able to answer all the probing questions. I doubt "I cant really remember that detail" would ever be acceptable, and they might think its a fake answer.
 

dazzayid

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Whatever u do don’t make anything up, they will dig so deep they will catch you out. Also if your answer is not good enough they will tell you.
 

Paulm36

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Was the final answer you gave that much of an emergency? or was it just something that you took control of and personally sorted? The emergency situations I have been around have not involved me that much. I have examples of times I have had to act fast but have not been really urgent life of death kind of events. And the problem is I dont remember all the finer details because they were less dramatic therefore I might not be able to answer all the probing questions. I doubt "I cant really remember that detail" would ever be acceptable, and they might think its a fake answer.
The emergency situation question definitely doesn't have to be life or death . I used an example of breaking a car window whilst cutting grass , no-one was even close to being hurt . However they will want to know how you reacted to the situation , did you follow company procedure , what procedures you followed, how you coped with the situation , how it made you feel and what the outcome was etc .
 

GMT

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In complete honesty... the MMI is just a game ... with winners and losers
I think you are right. I'm a loser. I had my MMI (the second one after having failed the first one in 2016 with TL) with Freightliner at the end of January. The OPC lady who interviewed me seemed to be fine with my answers; she didn't say anything like 'your answer is not good, if you don't find another one you'll fail', she was just writing like mad, probing at times, as usual. I think a couple of my examples were old though, one of them dated 2001; I told her because she asked me, and I didn't lie. I thought all had gone OK, much better than the first MMI where I deserved to fail, no doubt.

However, what actually happened was that on 05/02/19 I received an email from Freightliner:
As you are aware we received a high volume of applications for this role and you performed exceptionally well to be considered in the final list of candidates. I am pleased to advise that we would like to retain your application in a Talent pool.
I thought that I had made it, taking for granted my passing in the MMI. Well, on 13/02/19 an email from OPC showing MMI assessment result fail. Ah ah, it was a bit of a shock and I also felt like a fool. I thought I had passed, what a stupid boy I am. But I suppose it was meant to be that way, our destinies are already written somewhere. At least I had a plan B...early retirement somewhere warm.

Anyway, all the best to all of you. I'm out of the game.
 

Blueben

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Did you check if you pass at national level? Some tocs will take it others want enhanced...
 

Driver2B

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I think you are right. I'm a loser. I had my MMI (the second one after having failed the first one in 2016 with TL) with Freightliner at the end of January. The OPC lady who interviewed me seemed to be fine with my answers; she didn't say anything like 'your answer is not good, if you don't find another one you'll fail', she was just writing like mad, probing at times, as usual. I think a couple of my examples were old though, one of them dated 2001; I told her because she asked me, and I didn't lie. I thought all had gone OK, much better than the first MMI where I deserved to fail, no doubt.

However, what actually happened was that on 05/02/19 I received an email from Freightliner:
As you are aware we received a high volume of applications for this role and you performed exceptionally well to be considered in the final list of candidates. I am pleased to advise that we would like to retain your application in a Talent pool.
I thought that I had made it, taking for granted my passing in the MMI. Well, on 13/02/19 an email from OPC showing MMI assessment result fail. Ah ah, it was a bit of a shock and I also felt like a fool. I thought I had passed, what a stupid boy I am. But I suppose it was meant to be that way, our destinies are already written somewhere. At least I had a plan B...early retirement somewhere warm.

Anyway, all the best to all of you. I'm out of the game.

Commiserations, mate! So sorry to hear that!

I'm not sure if it's any consolation, but I don't see much value in the MMI. I saw value in the other assessments and DMI, but the MMI seems much like a lottery.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you go on to do!
 

Driver2B

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Are you or anyone else able to share any tips for the assessments and interviews?

That would be highly appreciated.

I attended an assessment day with a TOC which accepts national standards.


I understand that many TOCs have around 20-25 people taking the tests on that day. The TOC which assessed me, however, assesses fewer people at once (8 were due to attend but only 5 did). Of the 5 who attended, two worked for the TOC in guard or ticket office roles, and at least one of the absentees, too.


The TOC should have e-mailed you an information pack telling you what tests would be conducted, the procedures for them and giving your ideas for practice before the day.


The tests are designed to be psychometric, hence they assess your capabilities. I saw that when doing the tests. There are some people I know who I think could practice full time and still never pass. It assesses innate abilities, although, of course, some practice in advance can help you a little.


Initially, we were asked to wait in a waiting room. We were asked 1-by-1 to go into an interview room where our identity, including NI number, was checked. We were also given a colour-blind test. In this test, you have to read the numbers which you can see in circles made of different colours. Warning: There are some trick ones! There are no numbers on some of them - don't try finding one; just say you can't see one!


When that was conducted, we were taken to a room where we each had a desk with stationery provided. I brought my own pens which I usually use which I find comfortable.


The first test was the Group Bourdon Test. This is the test which most people find the hardest and I recommend that you spend most time practising. You need to find groups of four dots. There's a downloadable online tool: https://www.railforums.co.uk/attachments/bourdon-zip.36183/. I initially started doing it online and then moved on to printing and doing them on paper. You do get used to the patterns of dots on the tool, and they are different on the actual test, although the skills are transferrable. There are various people on this forum who quote how many lines you need to complete and how many errors you can make to pass. I was doing about 9 or 10 lines on the printouts from the tool with only 1 or 2 mistakes per page and I passed. Be very sceptical of people who say you need to complete 14 or 15 lines with no more than one mistake! (Of course, some TOCs require enhanced testing, which may require slightly more.) There was also a practice section at the start. The practice grids in the information booklet were less helpful than the tool (using letters rather than dots).


We then had a break while the test was marked. One person was asked into the interview room to be told that he failed so he was sent home.


The next test was the Test of Everyday Attention (TEA-Occ). This measures attention to multiple things and how well you can multi-task.

Part 1 required us to listen to beeps (some with low tones, others with 'high' but I'd call them moderate-to-low). You will need to count just certain tones (can't remember if it was low or high). An example is available here, but there weren't so many tones for each question: https://traineetraindriverinfo.com/low-tones-test-track-1/

Part 2 required us to do some simple telephone directory work. I think it was finding companies in a particular trade with a rating of three stars and with a phone number with a particular area code. It wasn't rocket science and probably doesn't need much practising, but it is designed to make you work quickly. You might not finish and don't need to.

Part 3 was the hardest, combining both part 1 and part 2. You hear number 1 read out and a number of beeps (only one tone this time). You need to write the number down when told. This continues. At the same time, you have a telephone directory task similar to part 2. You are told that both parts are of equal importance. You must use different pens for both tasks. When doing it, I got a good sense that I was truly multi-tasking. It's a good test, actually!

The booklet gives you some activities to help you. Recognising symbols probably isn't too difficult for most people. If you have somebody who could play patterns of two tones on a keyboard or piano (written down first so the answers can be assessed), that might help you, and also if they can play similar tones while they asked you to do a reading task / telephone directory task / wordsearch. However, I didn't practise much for this test and I know some others didn't either, and we passed.


The next test was the Trainability for Rules and Procedures Test (TRP), Part 1 which assesses how well you can learn new things. The railway rulebook is huge for a start, and you will also need to learn about fault finding and repairing, not to mention route knowledge. We were given a two-page information sheet explaining how "GLOP" is applied to the rails using a locomotive and application vehicle operated by a driver and a guard, including what controls there are, the colours and locations of them, when they should be used, the signalling system between the driver and guard, etc. We also heard a recording of this. We then had to hand back the information sheet and answer questions on the procedure. I found this quite easy, but some people don't pick up new information well, especially when there are lots of details. They give a very clear example in the booklet sent before the day.

Part 2 is sometimes known as the “dials” test. You get sets of 3 dials with pointers pointing to the number on each dial, and you have to put them in order (I believe starting with the largest). However, each dial has a different number range (one might go from 0-150 and another might go 0-500) so in that example, halfway on the dial going up to 500 would read '250' but the whole way on the dial going up to 150 would be only '150'. You have 43 questions to complete in 8 minutes and I don't think that anybody ever completes them all. Apparently, you are scored for correct answers but not penalised for wrong answers.


The final written test was the Written Communication Test (WCT), although I understand that this is no longer compulsory and some TOCs no longer do this. We were given a cartoon strip showing a taxi booking, a taxi picking a person up on time, delays on the route, and arrival at destination late. We had to write what happened. The only thing that matters is clarity so your writing needs to be legible, but not necessarily neat. You do not need to write in sentences - bullet points are acceptable. Grammar and spelling is not important if it does not obscure meaning. You can continue to look at the cartoon strip during the test - you do not need to turn it over or have it collected. I have been told that almost 100% pass this test - if your handwriting is legible and you can convey a simple story, even just in bullet points, you're fine!


Again, we were sent to the waiting room while the tests were marked - this took a long time (almost an hour, I think)!


The final tests were the computerised tests. There might not be one computer per person so some people might have to take the test while other people are waiting.


I think the first computerised test was the ATAVT Perception Test. You will view a picture of a street scene for approximately 0.5-1 second. You will then have to choose from the list (pedestrians; motor vehicles excluding motorcycles; bikes, motorcycles or scooters; road signs; traffic lights) what was in the picture. There might be as few as one or as many as five in any one picture. Many pictures are busy scenes and you will notice the presence or absence of some things, but for most of the time, you will not be certain that you have got them all right - there will be some guesswork or subconscious decision-making involved. This will suit people who are observant and can process quickly.

This video will give you a good idea of the test, but I think the pictures disappear more quickly in the assessments than shown on this video:

Asking a friend or family member to download some pictures from the internet and test you on them (giving you only a brief peek) might help.


I think the second test was the 2Hand Co-Ordination Test. You will have two joysticks, one will only go up and down, and the other will only go left and right. You have to control a ball around a track trying not to let it go off of the grey track, which includes curved sections. You will hear a screech when it does. This is repeated many times. It is aimed to be difficult and most people will not keep it on the track all the way around. We all thought we did really badly on this!


The final test was the WAFV (Vigilance) Test. You will see a grey square flashing on the screen. When it changes colour to a different shade of grey, you press the large green button as quickly as possible. This continues for 30 minutes, sometimes for long periods between changing. Also, your eyes imagine it changing when it doesn't. It's a good assessment because if you can't concentrate on being vigilant for 30 minutes, being in charge of a train might not be a good idea! When your eyes lose focus, move closer to or further away from the screen. Also, surprisingly, the colour changes aren't random but pre-programmed. Therefore if one person starts their test, another starts two seconds later and another starts two seconds later, you will hear the first person press their button, then about two seconds later the next person, and another two seconds later the next person.


We were then asked to wait in the waiting room again while the results were generated.


Finally, we were congratulated for passing the tests and advised about the next procedures in the application process. We were also given some basic pieces of advice for the DMI.


Hope that this is helpful. Feel free to ask any further questions!
 
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Driver2B

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So I have just had some news

I’m through to DMI...just awaiting details!

Fantastic! Congratulations, mate!

I remember how I felt after I heard the news after my MMI! And DMI!

Enjoy the feeling and good luck with the DMI! :)
 
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They'd have you believe these days that Train Driving was only invented post the introduction of these tests. I know times change but it's pretty bizarre how a closed shop job that barely anybody outside the industry considered has turned into something that 5000 people stampede for as if it was playing for Barcelona on £300k a week.
 

Walrus

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I thought I had prepared ok for my MMI, but didn't think my examples would be anything outstanding. One of the I had put down to use I was told wouldn't be good enough and to think of something else, which is a great help from the guy running it, but I felt like I'd be doomed with the less applicable answer I gave. After the MMI I kept going through and thinking of things that I'd completely forgotten to mention that would have been relevant, and was sure I'd doomed myself.
I forget how many weeks I was waiting for the call now, it might not have been too long, but when I picked up I already had the sinking feeling and was waiting to hear that I hadn't got it so I could move on and plan what to do next. There was a long pause once they said "Following your MMI we'd like to offer you a job" as my brain processed what they'd actually said.
No matter how much worrying you do about it after it's all done, that's no indicator of how it'll turn out.

And well done on getting through!
 
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