Female Drivers - What's it REALLY like?

[nolypops83]

Potential driver here. Hopefully will get through the process this year and into a talent pool, fingers crossed. The industry makes a lot of noise about recruiting more female drivers, but what is it really like?

Do your male colleagues treat you differently, are they generally OK? What are the toilet facilities like? Are the uniforms comfortable and fit well? Any tips and advice in general for female divers. Tell me everything!

 

[Carl98k]

Potential driver here. Hopefully will get through the process this year and into a talent pool, fingers crossed. The industry makes a lot of noise about recruiting more female drivers, but what is it really like?

Do your male colleagues treat you differently, are they generally OK? What are the toilet facilities like? Are the uniforms comfortable and fit well? Any tips and advice in general for female divers. Tell me everything!

It really depends if you’re applying to a FOC or TOC as both are totally different. On freight you might find yourself sat in a loop so you might need a wee (I’ve never needed more than that ).

Depending on the job you’re on, you can warm food up and use the toilet once you get to your destination.

I’ve not known women get treated differently by drivers where I work.

I’ve no idea about uniform, again this can change from company to company though.

 

[SJN]

Hi. Our uniform is ok. Not the greatest fitting but wearable. I find the shoes hard on my feet but I have found a type that aren’t too bad. I’m TOC and never had an issue with toilets. I don’t think I’m treated differently by male colleagues and get on well with most. Feel free to contact me with any questions. Good luck.

 

[GemGem]

female toc driver here. I buy my own work trousers as I don’t like the work issue ones. Rest of uniform is fine, get to wear polo shirts which are really comfortable. Don’t get treated any different and I get on with everyone I work with. I’ve had to nip to the toilet as an emergency once but it was never an issue. Same with women’s problems I feel well supported by management.

 

[Sly Sloth]

Here’s the post that no one wants!
I’ve seen a fair few women drivers join through the years and all have integrated in without issue because they’ve just got on with the job!
However, the last 5 years or so has seen a sizeable change in attitudes from the female drivers coming through! Diagrams too long, too long before a PNB, inadequate facilities! But the biggest shift has been in mess rooms where some are happy to be part of the banter which goes on but some are not and I’ve heard of female only WhatsApp groups and recordings of mess room chat going to management! I know, before you say it, that sometimes it gets near the mark but thats not the norm and at a couple of depots I PN at it’s becoming an unfortunate issue

 

[Twotwo]

Here’s the post that no one wants!
I’ve seen a fair few women drivers join through the years and all have integrated in without issue because they’ve just got on with the job!
However, the last 5 years or so has seen a sizeable change in attitudes from the female drivers coming through! Diagrams too long, too long before a PNB, inadequate facilities! But the biggest shift has been in mess rooms where some are happy to be part of the banter which goes on but some are not and I’ve heard of female only WhatsApp groups and recordings of mess room chat going to management! I know, before you say it, that sometimes it gets near the mark but thats not the norm and at a couple of depots I PN at it’s becoming an unfortunate issue

I think ALL driver complain about the diagrams and work content buddy. Every messroom I've been in, its always drivers moaning about something or the other.

 

[nolypops83]

It really depends if you’re applying to a FOC or TOC as both are totally different. On freight you might find yourself sat in a loop so you might need a wee (I’ve never needed more than that ).

Depending on the job you’re on, you can warm food up and use the toilet once you get to your destination.

I’ve not known women get treated differently by drivers where I work.

I’ve no idea about uniform, again this can change from company to company though.

Thanks, that’s good to hear. It would be a TOC.

Hi. Our uniform is ok. Not the greatest fitting but wearable. I find the shoes hard on my feet but I have found a type that aren’t too bad. I’m TOC and never had an issue with toilets. I don’t think I’m treated differently by male colleagues and get on well with most. Feel free to contact me with any questions. Good luck.

Thanks, I’m glad you get on well with everyone. Might have to pm you about the shoes if I get the job!

female toc driver here. I buy my own work trousers as I don’t like the work issue ones. Rest of uniform is fine, get to wear polo shirts which are really comfortable. Don’t get treated any different and I get on with everyone I work with. I’ve had to nip to the toilet as an emergency once but it was never an issue. Same with women’s problems I feel well supported by management.

That’s really good you can but your own trousers, I’m 5’4” so sometimes I need things adjusted for my little legs. Ditto on the period stuff. In one job I worked they only had one toilet used by men and women. If you wanted access to a bin you had to use the customer loos. They were much nicer and regular had soap!

Here’s the post that no one wants!
I’ve seen a fair few women drivers join through the years and all have integrated in without issue because they’ve just got on with the job!
However, the last 5 years or so has seen a sizeable change in attitudes from the female drivers coming through! Diagrams too long, too long before a PNB, inadequate facilities! But the biggest shift has been in mess rooms where some are happy to be part of the banter which goes on but some are not and I’ve heard of female only WhatsApp groups and recordings of mess room chat going to management! I know, before you say it, that sometimes it gets near the mark but thats not the norm and at a couple of depots I PN at it’s becoming an unfortunate issue

Bloody women ruining all your fun! Thoughts and prayers for you at this difficult time.

Here’s the post that no one wants!
I’ve seen a fair few women drivers join through the years and all have integrated in without issue because they’ve just got on with the job!
However, the last 5 years or so has seen a sizeable change in attitudes from the female drivers coming through! Diagrams too long, too long before a PNB, inadequate facilities! But the biggest shift has been in mess rooms where some are happy to be part of the banter which goes on but some are not and I’ve heard of female only WhatsApp groups and recordings of mess room chat going to management! I know, before you say it, that sometimes it gets near the mark but thats not the norm and at a couple of depots I PN at it’s becoming an unfortunate issue

I’m interested to hear about “banter” or what HR might call “inappropriate conduct at work.” Is it just female drivers or is it women in general that are fed up? I think you know the answer to that one. If you wouldn’t want someone to speak to your mum, wife, sister or daughter like that it’s probably best to keep your banter to yourself.

 

[Carl98k]

Thanks, that’s good to hear. It would be a TOC.



Thanks, I’m glad you get on well with everyone. Might have to pm you about the shoes if I get the job!



That’s really good you can but your own trousers, I’m 5’4” so sometimes I need things adjusted for my little legs. Ditto on the period stuff. In one job I worked they only had one toilet used by men and women. If you wanted access to a bin you had to use the customer loos. They were much nicer and regular had soap!



Bloody women ruining all your fun! Thoughts and prayers for you at this difficult time.



I’m interested to hear about “banter” or what HR might call “inappropriate conduct at work.” Is it just female drivers or is it women in general that are fed up? I think you know the answer to that one. If you wouldn’t want someone to speak to your mum, wife, sister or daughter like that it’s probably best to keep your banter to yourself.

I think this is quite a harsh assessment. Banter is very much subjective, and everyone has the right to be offended (and quite often are). It’s about knowing your audience. And of course somethings shouldn’t be said, and unfortunately some people (men and women) over step the boundaries. But I agree what the op, no one should be recording people in a mess room and sending it to management. We’re all adults, just speak up and say you’re not happy with what’s been said.

 

[Archvile]

I think this is quite a harsh assessment. Banter is very much subjective, and everyone has the right to be offended (and quite often are). It’s about knowing your audience. And of course somethings shouldn’t be said, and unfortunately some people (men and women) over step the boundaries. But I agree what the op, no one should be recording people in a mess room and sending it to management. We’re all adults, just speak up and say you’re not happy with what’s been said.

This. What they don't tell you is that you need a thick skin if you're going to survive around messrooms - they can be fiery places! Just be prepared to give as good as you get and you'll be fine.

 

[Chrysalis]

Am I really only the one that thinks that if someone gets in trouble with the management because their "banter" was recorded, the problem is the conversation and not the fact that it was recorded...? Place the blame where it belongs.

Re. Going too long without a PNB and insufficient facilities. If you're on your period you're quite likely to need the bathroom more often and no one enjoys sitting down on a dirty toilet. These are actual physical needs, not luxuries, and it seems very harsh to complain about women looking after their health.

I don't think anyone agrees with me so I'll just see myself out!

 

[InkyScrolls]

Am I really only the one that thinks that if someone gets in trouble with the management because their "banter" was recorded, the problem is the conversation and not the fact that it was recorded...? Place the blame where it belongs.

Re. Going too long without a PNB and insufficient facilities. If you're on your period you're quite likely to need the bathroom more often and no one enjoys sitting down on a dirty toilet. These are actual physical needs, not luxuries, and it seems very harsh to complain about women looking after their health.

I don't think anyone agrees with me so I'll just see myself out!

Not female myself but I know the policy at my company (Northern) is always to provide separate m/f facilities, with period product bins in the latter, and if a driver needs the loo at any time other than during a railway emergency then that takes priority.

Regarding banter, some people take it on the chin, some people take offence, that's just as true of men as it is of women.

 

[43066]

Am I really only the one that thinks that if someone gets in trouble with the management because their "banter" was recorded, the problem is the conversation and not the fact that it was recorded...? Place the blame where it belongs.

I think the point being made is that it’s quite a boisterous environment, and that people will certainly say things you wouldn’t expect to hear in a corporate setting, will swear a lot more etc. so that can be a culture shock for those coming from outside the industry.

However, if you’re unhappy with something, the best thing to do will generally be to challenge it yourself in the first instance. The driver at my depot with a reputation for running into the office whenever he hears something he doesn’t like is male. He has (amongst other things) cried “sexism” on behalf of a female driver who was absolutely furious when she found out, as it was nothing of the sort, and was a conversation between herself and a friend that he hadn’t even been a part of, and had completely misunderstood. All very unnecessary!

Actual sexism, racism, homophobia etc. isn’t any more acceptable on the railway than elsewhere these days, and quite rightly so. Based on where I work I don’t think you’re any more likely to encounter it in this industry than in others, and certainly prospective female drivers reading this thread shouldn’t be put off applying.

 

[Chrysalis]

I think the point being made is that it’s quite a boisterous environment, and that people will certainly say things you wouldn’t expect to hear in a corporate setting, will swear a lot more etc. so that can be a culture shock for those coming from outside the industry.

However, if you’re unhappy with something, the best thing to do will generally be to challenge it yourself in the first instance. The driver at my depot with a reputation for running into the office whenever he hears something he doesn’t like is male. He has (amongst other things) cried “sexism” on behalf of a female driver who was absolutely furious when she found out, as it was nothing of the sort, and was a conversation between herself and a friend that he hadn’t even been a part of, and had completely misunderstood. All very unnecessary!

Actual sexism, racism, homophobia etc. isn’t any more acceptable on the railway than elsewhere these days, and quite rightly so. Based on where I work I don’t think you’re any more likely to encounter it in this industry than in others, and certainly prospective female drivers reading this thread shouldn’t be put off applying.

Of course it's best to challenge it yourself first, but what if you're too uncomfortable doing so? What if there are far more people joining in in the "banter", than there are people silently listening? What if you've already tried to challenge it but nothing changes, or worse, people treat you worse because you dare to speak up? I too disagree with recording conversations out of the blue without cause or need or exploring other options first but I doubt that's actually something women do to a significant extent.

 

[43066]

Of course it's best to challenge it yourself first, but what if you're too uncomfortable doing so? What if there are far more people joining in in the "banter", than there are people silently listening? What if you've already tried to challenge it but nothing changes, or worse, people treat you worse because you dare to speak up?

If it’s as bad as that then I agree, but that’s starting to sound more like workplace bullying than “banter” (also unacceptable and robustly dealt with). It’s difficult to comment on @Sly Sloth ’s example without knowing the ins and outs, which we won’t be privy to on here.

I too disagree with recording conversations out of the blue without cause or need or exploring other options first but I doubt that's actually something women do to a significant extent.

Highly unusual and thankfully not something I’ve ever come across either men or women doing!

 

[357]

In my experience I have seen many women join and get treated exactly the same as any man.

The only ones that have had problems, are the ones who join and then expect special treatment because they are women.

 

[Chrysalis]

If it’s as bad as that then I agree, but that’s starting to sound more like workplace bullying than “banter” (also unacceptable and robustly dealt with). It’s difficult to comment on @Sly Sloth ’s example without knowing the ins and outs, which we won’t be privy to on here.



Highly unusual and thankfully not something I’ve ever come across either men or women doing!

Agreed.

I'm only a trainee, but my experience of the railway so far in regards to this has only been positive! I've yet to feel uncomfortable because of banter or any misogyny. Compared to some other workplaces I've worked at (warehouses, supermarkets, places that don't have this reputation of banter and making women feel uncomfortable) it's been an improvement.

 

[43066]

Agreed.

I'm only a trainee, but my experience of the railway so far in regards to this has only been positive! I've yet to feel uncomfortable because of banter or any misogyny. Compared to some other workplaces I've worked at (warehouses, supermarkets, places that don't have this reputation of banter and making women feel uncomfortable) it's been an improvement.

Great to hear .

I think people outside the industry just automatically assume the railway must be sexist/misogynistic because it’s well known that relatively few train drivers are female.

 

[357]

Bloody women ruining all your fun! Thoughts and prayers for you at this difficult time.

Unrequired and unnecessary, provocative response.

 

[Carl98k]

Unrequired and unnecessary, provocative response.

Exactly. And if a driver isn’t comfortable challenging someone on banter, then maybe the role isn’t for them. Especially as you’re expected to deal with challenging situations daily, be that driving or difficult customers.

 

[transportphoto]

Morning, all,

I’ve just read through this thread and don’t feel the need to get any moderator tools out and remove comments (or similar) just yet. That being said, can we make sure that we’re being constructive, helpful, respectful, etc?

If anyone is specifically uncomfortable with anything that has been said, please do escalate to forum staff via the Report button.

Thank you

 

[m0ffy]

Unrequired and unnecessary, provocative response.

It’s a light hearted, humorous, reply. Banter, if you will. I thought that was all above board?

Workplace banter is a bugbear of mine, it can make mess rooms uncomfortable boys clubs, unwelcoming to outsiders.

 

[357]

It’s a light hearted, humorous, reply. Banter, if you will. I thought that was all above board?

I’m interested to hear about “banter” or what HR might call “inappropriate conduct at work.” Is it just female drivers or is it women in general that are fed up? I think you know the answer to that one. If you wouldn’t want someone to speak to your mum, wife, sister or daughter like that it’s probably best to keep your banter to yourself.

 

[m0ffy]

I’m interested to hear about “banter” or what HR might call “inappropriate conduct at work.” Is it just female drivers or is it women in general that are fed up? I think you know the answer to that one. If you wouldn’t want someone to speak to your mum, wife, sister or daughter like that it’s probably best to keep your banter to yourself.

Sorry, I’d since edited - I posted prematurely. Aren’t we making exactly the same point?

 

[43066]

Workplace banter is a bugbear of mine, it can make mess rooms uncomfortable boys clubs, unwelcoming to outsiders.

But you’ve also stated you don’t work on the railway, so you presumably aren’t talking about railway messrooms, which is what we are discussing on this thread?

 

[dctraindriver]

Here’s the post that no one wants!
I’ve seen a fair few women drivers join through the years and all have integrated in without issue because they’ve just got on with the job!
However, the last 5 years or so has seen a sizeable change in attitudes from the female drivers coming through! Diagrams too long, too long before a PNB, inadequate facilities! But the biggest shift has been in mess rooms where some are happy to be part of the banter which goes on but some are not and I’ve heard of female only WhatsApp groups and recordings of mess room chat going to management! I know, before you say it, that sometimes it gets near the mark but thats not the norm and at a couple of depots I PN at it’s becoming an unfortunate issue

I think that’s across the board matey. The female drivers where I am 99% of the time just like 99% of their male counterparts get on with the job and enjoy it mostly.

 

[BrokenSam]

In my experience I have seen many women join and get treated exactly the same as any man.

The only ones that have had problems, are the ones who join and then expect special treatment because they are women.

Same can be said for men, it's a person issue not a sex one.

 

[357]

I just asked a couple of drivers, who aren't on this forum, their thoughts.

After calling me a sad spotter for spending time on this forum, they all agreed they don't care who turns up to drive the train, as long as they are reliable, turn up on time, and get the job done.

They cited a couple of female drivers they did take issue with - one used to milk the system for all the time off she could get for any reason possible, the other demanded to be accommodated as soon as she passed out for childcare. I've seen male drivers get exactly the same reception for doing exactly the same things.

And regarding "banter", we agreed that when there have been WhatsApp groups set up for all drivers at a depot that then specifically exclude staff (East Ham had this issue), and then those staff become the subject of running jokes and memes, that is over the line.

However, some conversations in messrooms that are seen as acceptable maybe wouldn't be in an office setting, such as when the news is on the TV having a conversation about small boats.

Same can be said for men, it's a person issue not a sex one.

I just made another post saying this exact same thing It's not a gender issue, it's a work ethic issue.

 

[Jaynie350]

Unfortunately I didn’t get that far, failing the VSE test at Tonbridge, hopefully next time.
A bit of light hearted banter is one thing , and i can give as good as i get, but there is a line that should not be crossed and that is when the banter becomes personal attacks.

 

[m0ffy]

But you’ve also stated you don’t work on the railway, so you presumably aren’t talking about railway messrooms, which is what we are discussing on this thread?

I work in a male-dominated, unionised, formally nationalised business. Messroom banter isn’t unique to the railway, nor to any industry. It’s a product of the environment, and years of our being tolerated.

 

[43066]

I work in a male-dominated, unionised, formally nationalised business. Messroom banter isn’t unique to the railway, nor to any industry. It’s a product of the environment, and years of our being tolerated.

But industries differ, so your own experiences elsewhere aren’t directly relevant to the OP’s question, which is specifically about the experience of females on the railway.

It would be a great shame if females were put off applying because of sweeping generalisations and assumptions being made by people who don’t even work in the industry.

It would be good to hear from more female train drivers about their experiences.