FGW Bans Enthusiasts From Chetenham Spa?

[RPM]

Apologies if this has already been covered, although I have searched and not found anything.

I have read some correspondence on FGW's Facebook & Twitter pages which suggest they have decided not to allow enthusiasts past the ticket barriers at CNM and possibly at Gloucester too. I understand platform tickets have also been withdrawn. Example of one of the answers provided by FGW on FB below:

Hi ****. Due to a serious security breach it has been necessary to review the security arrangements at Cheltenham Spa. We've made a decision to only allow travelling customers and those people who are seeing off or meeting people, access to the station. This will allow us to effectively manage all areas of the station and challenge anyone who we feel should not be on the station. This situation will be reviewed in the future. I know this will not be the answer you want but I hope this helps explain. Jo

How does this sit with the NR enthusiast guidelines?

 

[CC 72100]

I was wondering whether it would get raised sooner or later on here, saw it the other day on facebook too. I thought that any TOC could restrict access to platforms anyway when gates are used?

Not that we'll find out of course, but it would be interesting to know what the 'security breach' was.

 

[tom1649]

So the railway now coveys 'travelling customers' rather than 'passengers' eh? Even the airlines still manage to refer to passengers. I guess you could buy a return to the next station rather than a platform ticket and pretend to be a passenger... oh sorry... 'travelling customer' rather than an "enthusiast"... or "potential security breach" as FGW might prefer to call us...

 

[RPM]

They have the right to refuse anybody but this is needlessly discriminatory. Either ban all non-ticket holders or, preferably, apply a policy of flexibility & common sense; but don't discriminate against one particular type of non-ticket holder. Or sell platform tickets and have done - it worked perfectly well for decades and decades.

 

[yorkie]

I have read some correspondence on FGW's Facebook & Twitter pages which suggest they have decided not to allow enthusiasts past the ticket barriers at CNM and possibly at Gloucester too.

There does not appear to be a ban on enthusiasts. Most enthusiasts travel by train! There appears to be a ban on people not travelling (who, I agree, are likely to be enthusiasts).

I can't see them actually banning enthusiasts from the station!

How does this sit with the NR enthusiast guidelines?

Write to FGW head office and ask them I suspect you'll find FGW head office know nothing about it and give Cheltenham a call, and a U-turn will probably result.

 

[Yew]

WHat security concerns are these? Red pens full of cyanide? Kalashnikov's in camera bags?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

It sounds to me very much like one station has had enough of a certain wedge of enthusiasts walking off the ends of platforms and generally being unsafe trying to get photographs.

 

[starrymarkb]

I wonder if some 'Enthusiasts' took the proverbial and ended up where they were not supposed to be in a non-public area.

Remember that the NR guidelines are just guidelines, FGW can indeed ban them from the station if they so wish. I suspect the ban is temporary but it shows how a minority can ruin things for the majority.

 

[RPM]

It sounds to me very much like one station has had enough of a certain wedge of enthusiasts walking off the ends of platforms and generally being unsafe trying to get photographs.

Yes possibly, although we are speculating here of course. However I would have described that as a safety incident not a security incident. More appropriate to ban the individuals involved I would have thought - this can and has been done elsewhere.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

I have asked on the Facebook page and they gave me the exact same reply as in the OP. It is a silly idea in my opinion and I hope the ban is lifted soon. It's such a shame that the minority of people stick two fingers up at the rules and seem to think that it don't apply to them. It's them that spoil it for others, I really like CNM and I was really looking forward to do a it of spotting/photting there .

 

[Captain Chaos]

I read this the other day too. Was a bit surprised tbh. I always thought we had a fairly ok attitude with regards to railway enthusiasts who wanted to partake in their activities on the platform.

Can only think it could be instances of people walking off the end of platforms or being in places they shouldn't be? I don't actually know. I don't think it's to do with Revenue Protection concerns as I can think of quite a few barriered stations that allow enthusiasts onto platforms without a ticket. Besides, it's not in our interests surely to upset railway enthusiasts? They do spend money after all!

 

[tbtc]

Some enthusiasts are a problem, just like some football fans are a problem (and I say that as a supporter).

As with football fans, it only takes a few idiots.

 

[wbbminerals]

I can't help but wonder if a letter to one of the Daily 'bigot' papers such as the Mail or Express may help the situation. An example of a previous article can be seen here.

 

[185]

You have to be careful about them enthusiasts you know..... notebooks, pencils, dirty bombs, anoraks....

 

[CC 72100]

Either ban all non-ticket holders or, preferably, apply a policy of flexibility & common sense; but don't discriminate against one particular type of non-ticket holder.

On second thoughts, I think I missed the connection in the first place that a non-travelling, non-meeting somebody person at a station is likely to be an enthusiast.

 

[ModernRailways]

Could I buy a ticket then do some photographs? If so, then just buy the cheapest ticket. Make sure you buy it from another TOC (East Coast) then just collect it, that way IIRC FGW wouldn't get anything.

 

[musicking1306]

It maybe that a few enthusiasts have broken the rules and Platform staff having to waste time telling them what to do. I travel / Walk into, lots of First Great Western stations and find that as long as you let the dispatcher know you are there and that they are happy with you in that position and that you know where you cannot go (Such as passed the "No Passengers Beyond this point" sign). They are fine with you being there. Can sometimes be helpful if an enthusiast spots something everybody else missed. (Such as a door on the catch!). There was an artical in the railway magazine a few months ago of a BTP officer at Cardiff saying that he preferred to have a extra pair of eyes on the station.

 

[starrymarkb]

I don't think it would be worth the hassle. I wouldn't be surprised if this is just a temporary ban, but if it's because of bad behavior by 'enthusiasts' I think FGW are right to enact a local ban. (and as far as we know it's just Cheltenham with enthusiasts still welcome elsewhere)

From FGWs wording it sounds like someone had managed to access an off limits area (possibly with a key, given that some enthusiasts have T-Keys etc) - if that is the case I can understand why FGW are doing what they are doing... I'd bet once the news has got out that if you misbehave then FGW will withdraw access then they will start allowing spotters again

 

[tbtc]

You have to be careful about them enthusiasts you know..... notebooks, pencils, dirty bombs, anoraks....

...wandering dangerously close to the track for the sake of a better photograph, flash photography, obstructing passengers, disobeying instructions...

Would that be tolerated in every workplace in the UK?

Could I buy a ticket then do some photographs? If so, then just buy the cheapest ticket. Make sure you buy it from another TOC (East Coast) then just collect it, that way IIRC FGW wouldn't get anything.

Buying a ticket to somewhere nearby (e.g. Gloucester) would mean that East Coast would get around 10% of the ticket price (as the selling agent) and the remaining 90% would be split between the TOCs who provide services on that flow.

On Cheltenham to Gloucester the 90% would be split between XC (mainly the Nottingham - Cardiff route, but a token service on the Bristol route) and FGW (London to Cheltenham HSTs and Bristol to Worcester/Great Malvern Sprinters).

 

[bnm]

I suspect you'll find FGW head office know nothing about it and give Cheltenham a call, and a U-turn will probably result.

I suspect FGW Head Office know everything about it. Jo on FGW's Facebook page is not in the habit of confirming a local instruction without having checked things carefully before responding.

 

[PHILIPE]

There has been much recent discussion on the topic on the WNXX Forum site.

 

[12CSVT]

Probably a conspiracy theory, but is it a coincidence that this has appeared just before a weekend when there are likely to be far more enthusiasts than usual using Cheltenham Spa station due to the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway diesel gala ?

 

[furlong]

I don't know if this now counts as a Compulsory Ticket Area or not, but shouldn't the general principle apply to any barriered area?

At stations with a CTA, operators must make arrangements for people who are not travelling to be allowed into the part of the station covered by the CTA, if they have a good reason. This includes people who are meeting passengers, seeing passengers off or helping them with luggage, people helping passengers with disabilities, and people such as railway enthusiasts. The arrangements might include making platform tickets available at the ticket office or from a machine. People who are helping passengers with disabilities should not be charged to enter a CTA.

https://www.ircas.co.uk/docs/SRA - Penalty Fare Policy 2002.pdf
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Jo on FGW's Facebook page is not in the habit of confirming a local instruction without having checked things carefully before responding.

Perhaps ask them under what lawful authority they have implemented this change and whether it is intended to be permanent?

 

[TGVDUDE]

You have to be careful about them enthusiasts you know..... notebooks, pencils, dirty bombs, anoraks....

...wandering dangerously close to the track for the sake of a better photograph, flash photography, obstructing passengers, disobeying instructions...

Would that be tolerated in every workplace in the UK?

Could I buy a ticket then do some photographs? If so, then just buy the cheapest ticket. Make sure you buy it from another TOC (East Coast) then just collect it, that way IIRC FGW wouldn't get anything.

On Cheltenham to Gloucester the 90% would be split between XC (mainly the Nottingham - Cardiff route, but a token service on the Bristol route) and FGW (London to Cheltenham HSTs and Bristol to Worcester/Great Malvern Sprinters).

And ATW? (Chelt - Maesteg)

 

[tbtc]

And ATW? (Chelt - Maesteg)

Oops, yeah, you are correct - my mistake

 

[starrymarkb]

I don't know if this now counts as a Compulsory Ticket Area or not, but shouldn't the general principle apply to any barriered area?



https://www.ircas.co.uk/docs/SRA - Penalty Fare Policy 2002.pdf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Perhaps ask them under what lawful authority they have implemented this change and whether it is intended to be permanent?

Erm, their right to refuse entry to private property. Unless the station is a public right of way access is at the permission of the landowner (or their agents) - it sounds like someone abused that permission and so therefore access for spotting has been withdrawn

 

[RPM]

This from the Gloucestershire Echo:


http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.u...ng-vandalism/story-19567380-detail/story.html

A TRAINSPOTTER has complained to the bosses of Cheltenham Spa railway station, claiming he and other enthusiasts have been "banned" from stepping on the platform.

Robert Webb, 36, from Rowanfield, Cheltenham, has written to First Great Western to demand an explanation.

He said he was told by station staff that trainspotters could not enter the premises because "serious vandalism" had been carried out at the station.

First Great Western confirmed the vandalism had been carried out by a man masquerading as a train enthusiast."

But Mr Webb believes he has been "discriminated" against because other non-train users are allowed to access the station without a ticket.

He said: "I politely asked the staff at Cheltenham station if I could have access to the platform to take videos of the trains passing through ... only to be informed that all train spotters are banned.

"This would be fine if it was a complete ban on all members of the public without tickets but it is not. I observed members of the public without tickets being allowed access to the platforms to meet, greet and wave off friends and family.

"Also, I observed the taxi drivers are allowed access to the facilities. I feel that I and other railway enthusiasts are being discriminated against. As an enthusiast, I travel on (the train) services very often and, as a customer, I find this is an embarrassment."

In response, a spokesman for First Great Western said: "We welcome the rail enthusiast community at all our stations, and are grateful for the support they give our industry.

"Unfortunately, following a recent incident of serious vandalism at Cheltenham station, apparently carried out by someone pretending to be a rail enthusiast, we have had to temporarily suspend access to the station for those without a ticket for travel.

"I know true enthusiasts will completely condemn such actions, and we are grateful for their patience and understanding as we investigate further and put measures in place to avoid this happening again.

"We hope to welcome them back to the station soon."

 

[ModernRailways]

If that is the case then no-one should be allowed onto the platforms without a valid ticket.

You can't ban enthusiasts on the basis that someone posed (possibly) as one and caused vandalism, when you are still allowing other members of the public in.

You either have an outright ban, whereby no-one can access platforms without a ticket. Or you allow everybody the right to access the platforms.

 

[Bob Ames]

Shame on station management for not properly supervising their platforms. As for requiring a ticket, I don't see how that is going to stop someone intent on causing trouble/vandalism.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Good thing the vandal was not pretending to be a member of staff eh? It is just silly.