FGW looking at loco hauled for the Cardiff - Taunton route

[TEW]

It is very unlikely FGW would pay for the cost of leasing LHCS, especially considering the franchise situation currently. More than likely the DfT will underwrite the cost again because it's the only option.

 

[jimm]

The tender says:

Quote:
Duration of the contract or time limit for completion
Starting 9.12.2014 Completion 31.7.2016

Does that coincide with the Turbo fleet refub?

No. The Turbo refresh programme starts this September and will not require extra stock in the Thames Valley, although it makes the diagramming the fleet pretty tight, with one set away at a time. Perhaps this tender has something to do with providing cover while they are fitting disabled toilets to FGW's 15x fleet, which has to start sooner rather than later.

I wouldnt be too surprised if 150921 and 150927 do move to Reading since 150001 and 150002 are already there, perhaps one unit can be used on one of the Thames Valley branches.

And why wouldn't you be too surprised? The place in the Thames Valley where ever more capacity is needed is the main line, not the branches, nor the self-contained diagrams the 150/0-worked Reading-Basingstoke line represents, so another pair of 75mph units would be little use in a context of 90mph timings, have far too many seats for the branches and are rather useful around Bristol...

 

[anthony263]

Ok Jimm you may be correct.

 

[TEW]

And why wouldn't you be too surprised? The place in the Thames Valley where ever more capacity is needed is the main line, not the branches, nor the self-contained diagrams the 150/0-worked Reading-Basingstoke line represents, so another pair of 75mph units would be little use in a context of 90mph timings, have far too many seats for the branches and are rather useful around Bristol...

If you put a 150 on a branch though you free up a Turbo for the mainline, which is what happened with the Reading-Basingstoke services. I'm not sure what other services you'd convert to 150s mind so I doubt it's going to happen.

 

[Eagle]

If you put a 150 on a branch though you free up a Turbo for the mainline, which is what happened with the Reading-Basingstoke services. I'm not sure what other services you'd convert to 150s mind so I doubt it's going to happen.

Would they be too slow to work the Reading–Newbury services?

 

[TEW]

Yes, they'd be timed at 90mph, the speed limits are higher than 75mph from Reading-Newbury. You'd also have to provide guards, the services are DOO at the moment.

 

[Eagle]

Thought so (I know the linespeed gets up to 110 in places).

 

[jimm]

If you put a 150 on a branch though you free up a Turbo for the mainline, which is what happened with the Reading-Basingstoke services. I'm not sure what other services you'd convert to 150s mind so I doubt it's going to happen.

Yes, you do, but like I said, the West fleet is going to need cover for 15xs while they are away and using locos around Bristol smacks far more of addressing that scenario than anything to do with Thames Valley services, where extra capacity was added last year in the shape of 180s, extra HST trailers and the two 150/0s. All of which helped provide just enough breathing space to allow the release of 16xs to go to Wolverton for modification from September.

 

[TEW]

Yes, but the deadline for the 15x fleet to be modified would be 2020 would it not? Bearing in mind that there will be an influx on Turbos at some point in the future they could potentially go away to be modified then as well. The introduction of LHCS could simply be to provide some much needed extra capacity.

 

[anthony263]

A suggestion that has cropped up on another forum is that FGW are looking at copying EMT and using 4 carriage trains on the Cardiff - Portsmouth Hbr route.

Of course I have my doubts since FGW dont have enough class 158's to have 4 carriage operation

 

[MCR247]

Well if they're 'copying EMT' maybe its just 4 carriage operation for part of the route?

 

[anthony263]

Well where can they split the units, I suppose they perhaps coudl do at Newport since trains from Portsmouth arrive into Newport at around 28 minutes past the hour with the services to Portsmouth arriving into Newport about 15 minutes later.

Although like Southampton Central etc there may not be the capacity to do so.
Perhaps a possibility of some of the 150/2's which have the 2 + 2 seating working in pairs on certain services?

 

[TEW]

FGW would have 20 2-car 158s if they split them back down, plus 3-car 158798. Portsmouth-Cardiff needs 8 diagrams, so 16 units for 4-car operation. It would definitely be possible, but would lead a shortfall of units elsewhere that the LHCS would have to cover.

 

[jimm]

Yes, but the deadline for the 15x fleet to be modified would be 2020 would it not? Bearing in mind that there will be an influx on Turbos at some point in the future they could potentially go away to be modified then as well. The introduction of LHCS could simply be to provide some much needed extra capacity.

The sheer number of trains of various sorts needing disability modifications across the network means the work will take a very long time - only a few sets at a time can be released from traffic, for obvious reasons. And the workshops have limited capacity as well.

The transfer of Turbos westwards will not start in earnest until the end of 2016 and even then a fair number of them will be staying at Reading/moving to Aylesbury for at least two years (longer for Aylesbury-MK duties) to operate East-West services until that route is electrified.

The contract to carry out disability access work on the FGW and Chiltern Turbo fleets runs from September this year until April 2018, for 96 sets. The work on SWT's 91 Class 455s is going to take four years from this November.

There are 130-odd units in the 150 fleet, of which FGW uses 45, so how long do you think this fleet will take to update, even allowing for ex-First North Western sets having an accessible toilet fitted already? And even those sets will need some level of modifications.

If it's about providing extra capacity for FGW, you would surely get on and do it now, as it will help meet existing demand - and certainly ahead of the summer season next year, not that September.

 

[fgwrich]

If you put a 150 on a branch though you free up a Turbo for the mainline, which is what happened with the Reading-Basingstoke services. I'm not sure what other services you'd convert to 150s mind so I doubt it's going to happen.

...However, is there any particular reason stopping FGW from using a 150 on the Thames Valley Branches? I.E Windsor, Henley or Marlow and basing it out of Reading?

 

[simon.exd]

Dvts would be good to see..

Just throwing ideas in but what about DCR? Havent they got stock kicking around that was potentially to be used for the Okehampton-Exeter services?
Does it have to be "modern" traction? 31s anyone? Lol
Im all in favour of loco and coach stock, with more and more people travelling by rail for me it has to be the way to go!

 

[anthony263]

...However, is there any particular reason stopping FGW from using a 150 on the Thames Valley Branches? I.E Windsor, Henley or Marlow and basing it out of Reading?

The problems with the class 150's is their top speed of 75mph however in the case of the Reading - Bassingstoke shuttles the class 150's can keep up with the timings due to their better acceleration from stations along the route.

If they stay effectively locked in all day on the branches then I dont realy think there may be a issue about using class 150's on the Thames Valley branchlines, the exception being the marlow branch where the 3 carriage class 150's will not fit into the Marlow platform at Bourne end in its current state.

Of course they might just be able to squeeze a 3 carriage 150 into the Marlow platform @ Bourne End if it was extended towards the mainroad

 

[PHILIPE]

...However, is there any particular reason stopping FGW from using a 150 on the Thames Valley Branches? I.E Windsor, Henley or Marlow and basing it out of Reading?

I presume FGW do not want 150s working in the Thames area. There would be Maintenence issue as 15000012 are just a one off and a unique sub-class.

 

[Rich McLean]

I know drivers and gaurds would need to be trained up for this, but what about FGW sending down their 2 car 158 to cover for the Greenfords?

 

[anthony263]

I know drivers and gaurds would need to be trained up for this, but what about FGW sending down their 2 car 158 to cover for the Greenfords?

I say no chance of that happening especially if FGW are planning to increase the Cardiff - Portsmouth Hbr srvices to 4 carriage operation

 

[Bevan Price]

The contract may say this:

Duration of the contract or time limit for completion
Starting 9.12.2014

Which is the planned start date for Manchester - Liverpool electrification - which might just leave some 150s free for redeployment.

 

[PHILIPE]

I say no chance of that happening especially if FGW are planning to increase the Cardiff - Portsmouth Hbr srvices to 4 carriage operation

With FGW having to use 150s on some West of England services where 158s would be better suited you could hardly waste one on the Greenford Branch. In anycase using anything else bar Turbos and 150001/2 would be far to remote from their Maintenance bases, PM or EX

 

[Rhydgaled]

FGW would have 20 2-car 158s if they split them back down, plus 3-car 158798. Portsmouth-Cardiff needs 8 diagrams, so 16 units for 4-car operation. It would definitely be possible, but would lead a shortfall of units elsewhere that the LHCS would have to cover.

How many 158 diagrams do FirstGW have at the moment? Where are they used other than Cardiff - Portsmouth and Brighton - Bristol (and is there still 1 3-car 158 on Cardiff - Taunton)?

 

[IanXC]

Which is the planned start date for Manchester - Liverpool electrification - which might just leave some 150s free for redeployment.

I think the "might" is probably quite a remote chance. As I understand it the diesel stock will be staying with Northern, lets face it theres no shortage of routes which need strengthening.

 

[D1009]

If anything gets released by Northern it's more likely to be 142s, which could replace the 150s currently in use in Devon.

 

[PHILIPE]

I very much doubt it. What would FGWs 150s do.

 

[D1009]

I very much doubt it. What would FGWs 150s do.

Be made DDA compliant?

 

[TEW]

How many 158 diagrams do FirstGW have at the moment? Where are they used other than Cardiff - Portsmouth and Brighton - Bristol (and is there still 1 3-car 158 on Cardiff - Taunton)?

8 on PMH-CDF
2 for the 2 Brighton diagrams
1 on TAU-CDF

So 11 diagrams for 14 units. Then there are 2 diagrams for the 2 2-car 158s, one on Cheltenham-Swindon services, the other on an am Weymouth service, then peak Exeter area services.

 

[455driver]

8 on PMH-CDF
2 for the 2 Brighton diagrams
1 on TAU-CDF

So 11 diagrams for 14 units.

14 units?
I thought there were 13 3 coach units-
158950-961 (12) and 158798 (makes 13).

 

[TEW]

14 units?
I thought there were 13 3 coach units-
158950-961 (12) and 158798 (makes 13).

Yeh, sorry it is 12.