FGW suspended - alternative routes

[zoneking]

Currently, there are no trains between Redhill and Guildford due to a vehicle striking a bridge at Shalford.

NRE site states that:

A vehicle has struck a bridge at Shalford, this means trains cannot run between Guildford and Redhill. Replacement transport has been requested.
A vehicle has damaged a support pier of a footbridge which crosses the line at the eastern end of Shalford station, an inspection has indicated the structure is unsafe so therefore no train service will operate.
There is no firm estimate yet of how long disruption will last but it is likely to continue until at least 09:00.
Alternative routes where tickets will be accepted
Passengers may use Southern, South West Trains and London Overground on any reasonable routes​

However, this was no good for me who wanted to get on at Gomshall. I had to pay £4.00 for the bus. Can I claim compensation? I have a season ticket.

 

[infobleep]

I doubt it. You would have had to wait for the rail replacement bus that had been requested. It's not so easy at unmanned train stations.

 

[JonathanH]

Given there are facilities to turnback and run east from Gomshall and there must have been two turbos at Redhill, why isn't any service being run on the line?

 

[Tetchytyke]

FGW's compensation policy is based on circumstances within the control of the rail industry. A bridge strike is almost certainly not within the control of the rail industry.

It's probably worth keeping the ticket and writing in to complain, as you may get something as a gesture of goodwill. But you wouldn't be entitled to anything.

 

[Bill Badger]

FGW's compensation policy is based on circumstances within the control of the rail industry. A bridge strike is almost certainly not within the control of the rail industry.

Given it is reported that it was a Network Rail maintenance vehicle which struck the bridge, there is quite a strong argument that it is!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Funny you say that, I almost typed "unless it was a railway industry vehicle that hit the bridge"!

 

[zoneking]

If it is going to be suspended all day I expect there will be a replacement bus, which is not currently mentioned at NRE. It will be easier to get information at Guildford than Gomshall, which is now staffed at the foot crossing.

 

[infobleep]

When I first saw the incident details above I thought, there's no way that can reopen by 9am if it's damaged. Sure enough I was right. They did say at least 9am to be fair.

 

[infobleep]

Now saying 4pm reopening which is good. JonathanH said why are no services running between Gomshall and Gatwick? Looking at real time trains it seems this occurred before any train departed Gatwick. I don't know if any trains are stabled at Gatwick overnight. If not that would explain the problem.

I wonder how quickly they were able to obtain replacement buses. Customers from or west of Guildford or from Dorking could go via Clapham Junction at least.

 

[ushawk]

Now saying 4pm reopening which is good. JonathanH said why are no services running between Gomshall and Gatwick? Looking at real time trains it seems this occurred before any train departed Gatwick. I don't know if any trains are stabled at Gatwick overnight. If not that would explain the problem.

I wonder how quickly they were able to obtain replacement buses. Customers from or west of Guildford or from Dorking could go via Clapham Junction at least.

Turbos are stabled at Redhill, as are some FGW crew. Services wouldnt have been able to run past Reigate either due to the lack of crossovers. Even then, Reigate services probably havent ran due to either staffing or pathing issues.

Some schools went back today, so buses in the morning and possibly afternoon might be difficult to source.

 

[infobleep]

Interestingly the 16.14 and 16.44 Guildford to Reading services were cancelled this afternoon. Would they have put people in taxis and what about those at unmanned train stations? The gap between train services running would have been an hour 30 minutes. Although buses would have been requested between Guildford and Redhill, I doubt they could continue the services to Reading.

Although there are still some cancellations, some services have been running since 15.48 to Redhill.

There is just the issue of staff being displaced.

 

[455driver]

Turbos are stabled at Redhill, as are some FGW crew. Services wouldnt have been able to run past Reigate either due to the lack of crossovers. Even then, Reigate services probably havent ran due to either staffing or pathing issues.

Some schools went back today, so buses in the morning and possibly afternoon might be difficult to source.

FGW dont have any drivers based at Redhill they hire in Southern drivers, they do have guards though.
But your point still stands, there should have been (Southern) drivers available.

 

[richw]

FGW published they were only able to source 2 coaches which I gather wouldn't be enough capacity. They were advising passengers to take SWT into London then take underground to Victoria and back out that way. Guildford to London is at least 30 mins longer on SWT plus underground change, plus getting back out to Redhill looks like a hefty delay to passengers.

Having seen pictures on twitter it was clearly hit by a rail based vehicle. There is no road near to where the bridge has been hit.

The line is now closed again to demolish the bridge. Not knowing the station how would passengers be able to get from one platform to the other with no bridge, it doesn't look particularly obvious on google maps. There is only ticketing facilities on one platform according to national rail.

 

[Weary Walker]

Shalford is accessible on foot from both sides.

Past the convenience store on the Guildford platform & past the pub on the Redhill platform.
But from above I don't think it is the bridge between the platforms but the footbridge furether along.

(I finished a walk there a few weeks back.)

 

[infobleep]

FGW published they were only able to source 2 coaches which I gather wouldn't be enough capacity. They were advising passengers to take SWT into London then take underground to Victoria and back out that way. Guildford to London is at least 30 mins longer on SWT plus underground change, plus getting back out to Redhill looks like a hefty delay to passengers.

Having seen pictures on twitter it was clearly hit by a rail based vehicle. There is no road near to where the bridge has been hit.

The line is now closed again to demolish the bridge. Not knowing the station how would passengers be able to get from one platform to the other with no bridge, it doesn't look particularly obvious on google maps. There is only ticketing facilities on one platform according to national rail.

What would be the problem is they ran with not enough capacity? By not running their was no capacity. Unless of course they were using buses with greater capacity.

 

[infobleep]

FGW dont have any drivers based at Redhill they hire in Southern drivers, they do have guards though.
But your point still stands, there should have been (Southern) drivers available.

So do First Great Western drivers drive the route between Redhill and Gatwick in addition to the Southern drivers?

 

[JonathanH]

What would be the problem is they ran with not enough capacity? By not running their was no capacity. Unless of course they were using buses with greater capacity.

I saw Mortons running one of their 100 seat double deck buses* through Reigate yesterday so seemingly that was one of the vehicles hired with greater capacity.

* example picture (https://www.flickr.com/photos/34085730@N06/13687498233/)

 

[richw]

What would be the problem is they ran with not enough capacity? By not running their was no capacity. Unless of course they were using buses with greater capacity.

They ran with 2 coaches. With the required diagrams and increased journey times this was insufficient capacity but there was some capacity.

They also provided taxis to intermediate stations, so I don't think we are being told everything they actually did for their passengers.

We are getting "there was no trains" story, failing to mention they put on limited capacity coaches as well as taxis, and arranging for ticket validity on other operators.
Fgw are not a coach company and don't have power to magic coaches at short notice. I don't see what more they could have done in this situation.

 

[tsr]

First sent their Rail Support staff and various frontline on-train staff to major stations and arranged a pretty comprehensive selection of routes for ticket acceptance. The only areas left completely without any rail travel options were really Shalford, Gomshall, Chilworth and Betchworth, of which probably Gomshall saw the highest number of displaced passengers. On the closed stretch of line, Dorking passengers could use Southern/SWT in the area, Reigate passengers could use Southern to Gatwick or into Clapham Jn and then SWT to Reading, and Redhill passengers could use similar routes to those for Reigate. Obviously, all of these options would have taken a while, but the reality is that if you can get moving by hopping on a relevant train, it's often better than waiting at a station for a very limited bus service.

 

[455driver]

So do First Great Western drivers drive the route between Redhill and Gatwick in addition to the Southern drivers?

I think they do yes, they start from the Reading end and drive all the way through, I have certainly seen a driver in FGW uniform change ends at Redhill and drive the train to Gatwick.

 

[FenMan]

I think they do yes, they start from the Reading end and drive all the way through, I have certainly seen a driver in FGW uniform change ends at Redhill and drive the train to Gatwick.

What the drivers have in common is that they all seem to enjoy the sprint from Redhill to Gatwick after meandering through the North Downs.

Likewise, the ride from Wokingham to Reading can be fun, if a little bouncy, if the driver is due for a break or ending their shift.

 

[JonathanH]

First sent their Rail Support staff and various frontline on-train staff to major stations and arranged a pretty comprehensive selection of routes for ticket acceptance. The only areas left completely without any rail travel options were really Shalford, Gomshall, Chilworth and Betchworth, of which probably Gomshall saw the highest number of displaced passengers. On the closed stretch of line, Dorking passengers could use Southern/SWT in the area, Reigate passengers could use Southern to Gatwick or into Clapham Jn and then SWT to Reading, and Redhill passengers could use similar routes to those for Reigate. Obviously, all of these options would have taken a while, but the reality is that if you can get moving by hopping on a relevant train, it's often better than waiting at a station for a very limited bus service.

That still doesn't answer the question of why they didn't mobilise a service east of Gomshall using the resources available at the Redhill end and concentrate the coaches between Guildford and Gomshall. (I accept that even then, it is appropriate for through passengers to travel via Clapham Junction / London)

I seem to recall a sign advising drivers of the codes to set up on their radio (?) if travelling wrong line from Gomshall so working east of there must be possible.

 

[tsr]

That still doesn't answer the question of why they didn't mobilise a service east of Gomshall using the resources available at the Redhill end and concentrate the coaches between Guildford and Gomshall. (I accept that even then, it is appropriate for through passengers to travel via Clapham Junction / London)

I seem to recall a sign advising drivers of the codes to set up on their radio (?) if travelling wrong line from Gomshall so working east of there must be possible.

I was advised that, if the bridge could not be passed for the evening, an attempt might possibly have been made to reverse in the Dorking area, but not at Gomshall. As I understand it, this was for a number of reasons, including the facilities available in Gomshall vs Dorking (the latter being a much larger town and having rail links to London), the availability and position of staff to assist passengers (not to mention providing facilities for their welfare at Gomshall), positions of track circuits meaning the time taken to turn back and ensure the line was clear would be too great, etc. In addition, I believe there may also have been some concerns about moves over the foot crossing at Gomshall being confusing for passengers, though I did not have direct confirmation of this.

 

[JonathanH]

I was advised that, if the bridge could not be passed for the evening, an attempt might possibly have been made to reverse in the Dorking area, but not at Gomshall. As I understand it, this was for a number of reasons, including the facilities available in Gomshall vs Dorking (the latter being a much larger town and having rail links to London), the availability and position of staff to assist passengers (not to mention providing facilities for their welfare at Gomshall), positions of track circuits meaning the time taken to turn back and ensure the line was clear would be too great, etc. In addition, I believe there may also have been some concerns about moves over the foot crossing at Gomshall being confusing for passengers, though I did not have direct confirmation of this.

Thank you for responding. A shame in some ways because, whilst there is a concern with the foot crossing, Gomshall does have facilities to park a coach and have level access to both platforms which each of the Dorking stations don't have.

 

[TEW]

FGW published they were only able to source 2 coaches which I gather wouldn't be enough capacity. They were advising passengers to take SWT into London then take underground to Victoria and back out that way. Guildford to London is at least 30 mins longer on SWT plus underground change, plus getting back out to Redhill looks like a hefty delay to passengers.

From 9am onwards there were actually far more buses in use than that. At Guildford there was generally one bus each hour fast to Redhill (connecting with the Gatwick Airport train) and one bus each hour stopping to Redhill (picking up the calling pattern of the Redhill train it connected with). Prior to 9am the replacement service was pretty much exclusively by taxis, but these were provided with little delay to passengers. For the whole day some passengers were provided with taxis direct to Gatwick Airport if missing a flight was an issue.

 

[tsr]

Thank you for responding. A shame in some ways because, whilst there is a concern with the foot crossing, Gomshall does have facilities to park a coach and have level access to both platforms which each of the Dorking stations don't have.

Dorking West does have level (if not entirely smooth!) access on either side, though I believe that unless this was specifically required, the trains would have terminated at Dorking Deepdene and run empty to reverse.

 

[infobleep]

First sent their Rail Support staff and various frontline on-train staff to major stations and arranged a pretty comprehensive selection of routes for ticket acceptance. The only areas left completely without any rail travel options were really Shalford, Gomshall, Chilworth and Betchworth, of which probably Gomshall saw the highest number of displaced passengers. On the closed stretch of line, Dorking passengers could use Southern/SWT in the area, Reigate passengers could use Southern to Gatwick or into Clapham Jn and then SWT to Reading, and Redhill passengers could use similar routes to those for Reigate. Obviously, all of these options would have taken a while, but the reality is that if you can get moving by hopping on a relevant train, it's often better than waiting at a station for a very limited bus service.

How many of the major stations are current unmanned? For example would first have sent someone to Dorking Deepdene.

From reading here I get the impression First did as best they could, without running any trains themselves for whatever reasons.

The problem with the North Downs is that it usually takes twice as long to get anywhere by road than by rail. The only exception are if you go to Gatwick Airport direct from Guildford and they use the motorway.

 

[infobleep]

From 9am onwards there were actually far more buses in use than that. At Guildford there was generally one bus each hour fast to Redhill (connecting with the Gatwick Airport train) and one bus each hour stopping to Redhill (picking up the calling pattern of the Redhill train it connected with). Prior to 9am the replacement service was pretty much exclusively by taxis, but these were provided with little delay to passengers. For the whole day some passengers were provided with taxis direct to Gatwick Airport if missing a flight was an issue.

The fact they were providing taxis to avert missed flights is to be commended. I doubt they are legally required to do such things.

 

[tsr]

How many of the major stations are current unmanned? For example would first have sent someone to Dorking Deepdene.

I don't believe they did, but I could be wrong. Dorking Deepdene would be relatively easy to assist at, as the Main station is just round the corner and has welfare facilities for staff and passengers, but it may have been thought that due to the ticket acceptance in place, passengers would be heading to that alternative station anyway. I seem to remember there are now new screens at the bottom of the steps to Dorking Deepdene's platforms which could display an appropriate message.

From reading here I get the impression First did as best they could, without running any trains themselves for whatever reasons.

The problem with the North Downs is that it usually takes twice as long to get anywhere by road than by rail. The only exception are if you go to Gatwick Airport direct from Guildford and they use the motorway.

The A25 route between Redhill and Dorking is not so bad outside peak hours, but during the school run (this being the week when many schools start their terms in the area), it becomes an utter nightmare in parts. Also, the stop at Betchworth is somewhat off the main route and can be difficult as it is on a busy, steep, narrow route. Other than that, you are right that a road journey really can feel tortuous.

The fact they were providing taxis to avert missed flights is to be commended. I doubt they are legally required to do such things.

There were a number of stranded conductors and revenue staff, as well as some of their managers, who were called upon to assist. I imagine any direct taxis were fairly easily authorised - the staff did have the tools in place to communicate this as appropriate.

Obviously that is not the whole process - you can't just have an RPI authorising random numbers of taxis at the drop of a hat - but I feel fairly sure there was sufficient management drive to make sure it happened strictly where needed.