Fined for buying ticket on train

[barriers784]

Hi everyone.

In August 2024 I was presented with a fine in Birmingham New Street station for buying my ticket on the train and not before I boarded. I did explain that I couldn’t have bought one at the station anyway as no one was manning the ticket office. Admittedly I never even thought to buy one there as I did always just buy them on trainline on the train, which I obviously won’t be anymore.

I did give them my real first name, but my mothers maiden name and the address I gave was my old one that I had very recently moved out of, (I fully regret this, but I just panicked) but I feel I could possibly explain that I moved house during the time between getting the fine and receiving any letters which gave me a chance to repay at the reduced price. The maiden name, maybe I could explain that away too.

Today I finally got a redirected letter after 5 months stating the court has made a collection order to the sum of £485.90,
Fine: £220
Comp: £2.90 (the price of my ticket)
Victim Sur: £88
Costs: £175

I did also completely forget about this as just a few weeks after this fine I went through a major bereavement in my family, so my mind has been elsewhere. Without sounding like I am just using up excuses, how do I raise all these points to them in the hopes they will sympathise? I am also currently out of work and on UC (which I hate to admit).

All of this for a £2.90 fare which would’ve been the exact same price either way, I just made the mistake of paying on the train, seems very steep. I plan on calling the number they provided on the letter tomorrow, do you think I will be able to settle to a reduced amount out of court, using all this info I have provided here? Worst case scenario is paying the £400 on a monthly plan but I would really hope I could get it reduced as that is a major amount to me.

Any advice would be much appreciated, Thank you!

 

[30907]

If you had no knowledge of the court proceedings, then the first thing to do is make a Statutory Declaration, costing £5, at your local solicitor's. This means the court case has to be rerun, but it will also give you a breathing space to negotiate with WMT who may well be up for settling.
At the very least it gives you the opportunity to declare your income which may reduce the fine and surcharge.

 

[Trainman40083]

You say you couldn't buy a ticket before you boarded , because the ticket office was closed, yet you then admit you bought a ticket on the train using Trainline. So, in theory you could , indeed should have bought it before you got on the train. Bear in mind rail staff can scan and identify when you bought the ticket (i.e. seconds before you were challenged). So the offence is boarding a train without a valid ticket. One wonders if you giving a different surname and address resulted in the court action. I'd imagine the train operator searches your on line history from Trainline, which might reveal something. From previous postings, I seriously doubt train operators do sympathy, or payment options.

 

[AlterEgo]

What was the journey you made, and what ticket did you buy? First thing I checked was that the fare is the same price as a Five Ways to Birmingham ticket, a ticket that some people purchase simply to exit the barriers at New Street having come from further away.

 

[6Gman]

Hi everyone.

In August 2024 I was presented with a fine in Birmingham New Street station for buying my ticket on the train and not before I boarded.

What do you mean by being "presented with a fine in Birmingham New Street station"?

Do you mean a penalty fare or that your details were taken?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

What was the journey you made, and what ticket did you buy? First thing I checked was that the fare is the same price as a Five Ways to Birmingham ticket, a ticket that some people purchase simply to exit the barriers at New Street having come from further away.

And it is extremely rare to have the barriers open at Five Ways, so the chance of this not being a 'short fare paid on arrival' is slim.

 

[barriers784]

You say you couldn't buy a ticket before you boarded , because the ticket office was closed, yet you then admit you bought a ticket on the train using Trainline. So, in theory you could , indeed should have bought it before you got on the train. Bear in mind rail staff can scan and identify when you bought the ticket (i.e. seconds before you were challenged). So the offence is boarding a train without a valid ticket. One wonders if you giving a different surname and address resulted in the court action. I'd imagine the train operator searches your on line history from Trainline, which might reveal something. From previous postings, I seriously doubt train operators do sympathy, or payment options.

Well the point I was making is that I could say the reason I bought it on the train on trainline in the first place is due to the ticket office being closed. I know I made a big error here and it won’t be happening again. My letter actually states to contact the enforcement team if you were to have difficulties in paying the amount, or if you did not submit a statement of assets to the court or any other financial circumstances. I’ve read on many other threads also that people have been offered payment plans.

What was the journey you made, and what ticket did you buy? First thing I checked was that the fare is the same price as a Five Ways to Birmingham ticket, a ticket that some people purchase simply to exit the barriers at New Street having come from further away.

Hi, it was from Adderley Park, I’m aware this is another station people use just to buy a ticket to exit the barriers at, this was not the case for me. The man who questioned me clearly thought it though as he asked me to describe what the station looks like, which I did without missing a beat. I was with my friend that day travelling after seeing friends.

 

[WelshBluebird]

You say you couldn't buy a ticket before you boarded , because the ticket office was closed, yet you then admit you bought a ticket on the train using Trainline. So, in theory you could , indeed should have bought it before you got on the train.

Are mobile apps considered an opportunity to pay for the purposes of needing to get a ticket before boarding? Normally they aren't. But I guess this is complicated by the fact OP did then use one to buy a ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are mobile apps considered an opportunity to pay for the purposes of needing to get a ticket before boarding? Normally they aren't. But I guess this is complicated by the fact OP did then use one to buy a ticket.

Only if you use one. But if you do you need to do so before boarding.

Don't all WMT stations have TVMs now anyway?

 

[Andover]

Only if you use one.

Would that mean having one installed? Would there be a difference between Trainline, which is pretty unambiguously to buy tickets, and a TOC app, which you might have downloaded for information purposes only (and might not have any way to pay on)? I guess it's mostly academic, but I'd find it hard to draw the line.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Don't all WMT stations have TVMs now anyway?

Adderley Park apparently does have a ticket office, albeit with part time opening hours. Also has a (card payment only) TVM on the platform 1 side (heading away from Birmingham New Street) and a permit to travel machine for use when the ticket office is closed.

 

[AlterEgo]

Would that mean having one installed? Would there be a difference between Trainline, which is pretty unambiguously to buy tickets, and a TOC app, which you might have downloaded for information purposes only (and might not have any way to pay on)? I guess it's mostly academic, but I'd find it hard to draw the line.

Online purchasing/apps are not an opportunity to pay in terms of the law and this discussion is a red herring for the purposes of the OP.

The OP has committed an offence here which is not in dispute.

 

[Andover]

Online purchasing/apps are not an opportunity to pay in terms of the law and this discussion is a red herring for the purposes of the OP.

The OP has committed an offence here which is not in dispute.

Thanks, it was a genuine question but - yes - probably not for this thread.

 

[SussexMan]

I'm interested to know who the TOC and the court think has been prosecuted? Whose name is the Collection Order in? The only correct information given at the time of the offence was the OP's first name (albeit there was a recent link to the address given). How has the TOC/court linked the offence to the OP? Did the OP give 1) their date of birth, 2) an incorrect date of birth, or 3) no date of birth.

 

[Trainman40083]

I'm interested to know who the TOC and the court think has been prosecuted? Whose name is the Collection Order in? The only correct information given at the time of the offence was the OP's first name (albeit there was a recent link to the address given). How has the TOC/court linked the offence to the OP? Did the OP give 1) their date of birth, 2) an incorrect date of birth, or 3) no date of birth.

I thought some information was available from the Trainline etc. After all, he paid for a ticket, so holds a bank account...

 

[Gloster]

Has the OP ever come to the railway’s attention for a similar offence?

 

[barriers784]

What do you mean by being "presented with a fine in Birmingham New Street station"?

Do you mean a penalty fare or that your details were taken?

I'm interested to know who the TOC and the court think has been prosecuted? Whose name is the Collection Order in? The only correct information given at the time of the offence was the OP's first name (albeit there was a recent link to the address given). How has the TOC/court linked the offence to the OP? Did the OP give 1) their date of birth, 2) an incorrect date of birth, or 3) no date of birth.

I'm interested to know who the TOC and the court think has been prosecuted? Whose name is the Collection Order in? The only correct information given at the time of the offence was the OP's first name (albeit there was a recent link to the address given). How has the TOC/court linked the offence to the OP? Did the OP give 1) their date of birth, 2) an incorrect date of birth, or 3) no date of birth.

All details were more or less correct aside from the surname, so it wouldn't have been hard to find me. It’s my first name then my mothers maiden name, I gave my correct date of birth and address was only out of date by a couple of months. I have been having all my post redirected from this address but only just received a letter of any sort now.

Has the OP ever come to the railway’s attention for a similar offence?

No! Nothing like this has happened before.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you had no knowledge of the court proceedings, then the first thing to do is make a Statutory Declaration, costing £5, at your local solicitor's. This means the court case has to be rerun, but it will also give you a breathing space to negotiate with WMT who may well be up for settling.
At the very least it gives you the opportunity to declare your income which may reduce the fine and surcharge.

To direct things back on track, this seems the best advice for the OP. I'm told that even where a defendant lies about their identity or address, defeating any attempt to contact them, a SD can still be accepted as lack of knowledge of proceedings.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would that mean having one installed? Would there be a difference between Trainline, which is pretty unambiguously to buy tickets, and a TOC app, which you might have downloaded for information purposes only (and might not have any way to pay on)? I guess it's mostly academic, but I'd find it hard to draw the line.

They have no right to search your phone so in practice it just means that if you choose to purchase using an app you must do so before boarding, but if there's no other opportunity you can choose to buy from the guard, at an interchange point (if it wouldn't mean you missed your connection) or your destination as appropriate.

 

[ikcdab]

You have been given good advice. Even though you may not have intended to evade your fare, what you did is very common among those who do. And the fact that you gave incorrect name and address means that they are very unlikely indeed to sympathise. Ultimately you will have to pay the penalty one way or another.

 

[Hadders]

Moderator Note - this thread is to assist @barriers784 with their specific case. Discussion about mobile phone apps and whether they constitute an opportunity to purchase a ticket is off-topic and any further discussion should take place ina separate thread.

Thanks.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Question - Is the notice in your name or the false name?