First Aberdeen

[RomeoCharlie71]

I noticed a Streetdeck in Caledonia Depot today. Any idea what it’s doing down here?

Presumably 39711 which was taken away from Aberdeen yesterday on a low-loader, for repairs

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Is the plan still to start branding the E300s for the 17/18?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Is the plan still to start branding the E300s for the 17/18?

Yes. Some Streetlites are also to be done for the 23.

 

[Deltic1961]

Are First talking to Aberdeen City Council (ACC) about traffic management in Aberdeen? A total of 14 buses were stuck on Market Street in Aberdeen this afternoon; 9 southbound and 5 north. Surely ACC need to get traffic management sorted out as this isn't helping anyone. Closing off Union Street is causing real issues not to add far more pollution on Market Street, Guild Street and Bridge Street.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Are First talking to Aberdeen City Council (ACC) about traffic management in Aberdeen? A total of 14 buses were stuck on Market Street in Aberdeen this afternoon; 9 southbound and 5 north. Surely ACC need to get traffic management sorted out as this isn't helping anyone. Closing off Union Street is causing real issues not to add far more pollution on Market Street, Guild Street and Bridge Street.

Both First and Stagecoach have been opposed to the closure of Union Street ever since to happened over a year ago, especially since it happened without any consultation. Talks have been ongoing ever since.

It really is appalling, the other week it was taking 20 minutes to get from Adelphi to Bridge Street with buses being queued all the way up and along Broad Street!

 

[Spsf3232]

I had to endure a closure of Union Street once in the past and it was chaos, going from ontime to 30 minutes late in the space of a mile is shocking! Only saving grace was that I was driving the 1 so I was back on time by Holburn Street! The council need there heads tested if they make this a long term thing, they at least need to leave it open to buses only.

 

[lachlan]

The closure of Union Street had the potential to improve rail to bus interchanges, as I used to often walk from Union Street to the station I was glad to hear that buses would be routed via Guild Street. Sadly the solution is poor as many don't stop on Guild Street at all. I think if we could stop every bus on Guild Street it would improve things.

Alternatively I would support opening Union Street to buses only, as previously mentioned. However I think it's important that we continue to discourage private car use.

 

[Deltic1961]

Problem with discouraging car use is that it makes people use out of town retail parks. At the moment it's impossible to get near the centre anyway and Rosemount / George Street are partly one way.

Council are saying Union Street is dead, but making bus journeys even longer than they already are isn't helping at all. I'm already 50 minutes from Dyce to Aberdeen on first and it's 15 minutes in the car so a bit of a no brainer really.

 

[lachlan]

Problem with discouraging car use is that it makes people use out of town retail parks. At the moment it's impossible to get near the centre anyway and Rosemount / George Street are partly one way.

Council are saying Union Street is dead, but making bus journeys even longer than they already are isn't helping at all. I'm already 50 minutes from Dyce to Aberdeen on first and it's 15 minutes in the car so a bit of a no brainer really.

It's too bad they didn't take the congestion/pollution charge forward. Interesting that you mention Guild Street, in my experience, I don't often get held up there but Market Street is often snarled up. Presumably though if the car is so much quicker than the bus it isn't traffic levels that are the problem, it's just the bus is taking a longe route? Or am I missing something

 

[Deltic1961]

For me it's the speed the buses travel at and also convaluted routes. Usually around 20mph. I don't know if it's a save fuel or save the planet thing but people just want to get from A to B in the fastest possible time. the First services have been like this for years now and it drives me mad.

Last time I visited Dundee and got the bus from the outskirts it was hammering along. A pleasant surprise!

 

[lachlan]

For me it's the speed the buses travel at and also convaluted routes. Usually around 20mph. I don't know if it's a save fuel or save the planet thing but people just want to get from A to B in the fastest possible time. the First services have been like this for years now and it drives me mad.

Last time I visited Dundee and got the bus from the outskirts it was hammering along. A pleasant surprise!

I can't remember if it was the 35 to Aberdeen or a First service but coming back from the hospital we parked up at the Denburn for a few minutes to make up time. I've noticed this a few times, maybe the timetables have too much leeway? Not sure. The other thing that could improve service is integrated ticketing, yes we have Grasshopper but it would be good if the day tickets were compatible between First and Stagecoach!

 

[Jordan Adam]

Problem with discouraging car use is that it makes people use out of town retail parks. At the moment it's impossible to get near the centre anyway and Rosemount / George Street are partly one way.

Council are saying Union Street is dead, but making bus journeys even longer than they already are isn't helping at all. I'm already 50 minutes from Dyce to Aberdeen on first and it's 15 minutes in the car so a bit of a no brainer really.

Given the distance i'd have to disagree, the 18 takes the most direct route possible and only takes about 30-35 minutes from Victoria Street to Broad Street / Adelphi. The only diversion is through Mugiemoss Road but that doesn't add any time, they've even got it going direct down Causewayend rather than via George Street which helps shave off a few minutes. Of course it would help if there was proper bus priority around the Powis Terrace area as that's a major bottleneck for all services. The 35 is faster but doesn't serve the Union Street area. The only way to make the 18 faster would be to make it limited stop but then that would affect it's viability as a dedicated service to Dyce would not be profitable.

One of the main issues First and Stagecoach have had with Dyce in recent years is declining bus usage, this is mainly due to offices relocating or reducing in size, plus Scotrail more than doubled the number of trains. It's just impossible for a bus to compete when there's decent rail provisions and we're talking about a suburb that's 7 miles away from the city centre, Portlethen has had the exact same issue.

It's too bad they didn't take the congestion/pollution charge forward. Interesting that you mention Guild Street, in my experience, I don't often get held up there but Market Street is often snarled up. Presumably though if the car is so much quicker than the bus it isn't traffic levels that are the problem, it's just the bus is taking a longe route? Or am I missing something

At the moment the main snag point is the Market Street / Guild Street junction. Buses heading west get held up on Market Street while buses heading east get stuck on Guild Street. It doesn't help that the lights only let about three or four buses through at a time and it takes about three minutes for them to go through a full phase cycle. There is currently a bus gate on Union Street at Adelphi but if you had a pound for every car that went through the bus gate you'd be a millionaire!

The other thing that could improve service is integrated ticketing, yes we have Grasshopper but it would be good if the day tickets were compatible between First and Stagecoach!

The Grasshopper does exactly that so i can't really see how they can improve something that's already there and well utilised. Zone 1 Grasshopper is only 35p more than a FirstDay so it's not like it's excessively more expensive. The only way to "improve" as you suggest would be to get rid of the First/Stagecoach day tickets but then that's offering less flexibility for both passengers and operators.

The closure of Union Street had the potential to improve rail to bus interchanges, as I used to often walk from Union Street to the station I was glad to hear that buses would be routed via Guild Street. Sadly the solution is poor as many don't stop on Guild Street at all. I think if we could stop every bus on Guild Street it would improve things.

Alternatively I would support opening Union Street to buses only, as previously mentioned. However I think it's important that we continue to discourage private car use.

There isn't the space for every bus to stop on Guild Street. There's only presently two stops there and regulations would probably prohibit them adding any extra stops due to the road layouts. I agree with the latter point, opening up Union Street to buses only between Union Terrace and Broad Street would be a vast improvement and it is included as part of the councils "Masterplan". There are also plans to improve the link between the Trinity Centre and Union Square with proper disabled accessed, however like the masterplan if that actually happens anytime soon is a topic in it's own right.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Anyone know what the capacity on these new Streetdecks are? I’ve seen a few things about them being too low capacity for the 19 but surely First would have did the research beforehand?

 

[Volvodart]

The current capacity is about 10 less than the Geminis they replaced.

 

[Deltic1961]

Talking about capacity, there were a family on Union Street fuming today as they'd been at the bus stop for 45 minutes waiting and the two previous buses refused to let them on despite being half empty. Surely if capacity is being reduced due to distancing there should be more buses?

 

[lachlan]

Talking about capacity, there were a family on Union Street fuming today as they'd been at the bus stop for 45 minutes waiting and the two previous buses refused to let them on despite being half empty. Surely if capacity is being reduced due to distancing there should be more buses?

Or just let them board, many folks using the bus have no choice but to take the bus. This really isn't on IMO, public transport is an essential service.

 

[Deltic1961]

Or just let them board, many folks using the bus have no choice but to take the bus. This really isn't on IMO, public transport is an essential service.

Especially when you see videos of Scotland fans singing on a packed plane on the way to London. Maybe First are just being a bit over zealous, or is it up to the driver?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Especially when you see videos of Scotland fans singing on a packed plane on the way to London. Maybe First are just being a bit over zealous, or is it up to the driver?

First are following government guidance that states passengers should be sat 1m away from others in a zig-zag formation.

The difference, I believe, between buses and planes is that contact tracing can be carried out should there be an outbreak linked to a particular flight as the flight operator will have contact details for all parties onboard.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Talking about capacity, there were a family on Union Street fuming today as they'd been at the bus stop for 45 minutes waiting and the two previous buses refused to let them on despite being half empty. Surely if capacity is being reduced due to distancing there should be more buses?

Where do you expect First to get these extra buses and drivers when all routes bar the X27 are running full frequency and every route is having the exact same capacity issues? It's the Scottish government who are still advising 50% seat capacities whereas in England they're back up to full. First and Stagecoach could just ditch the capacity limits but then they'd lose the financial support which is still needed. If they went to full seat capacity like in England the issues would be solved, the government are promising a review soon, but it should've been done last month imo.

Anyone know what the capacity on these new Streetdecks are? I’ve seen a few things about them being too low capacity for the 19 but surely First would have did the research beforehand?

28 on the Streetdecks, 37 on the B9TLs and 41 on the E500s. A couple of E500s are being used on the 19 daily at the moment due to capacity issues on certain runs, as such Streetdecks are being used on the 1/2 which aren't having capacity issues to the same extent.

 

[APT618S]

Anyone know what the capacity on these new Streetdecks are? I’ve seen a few things about them being too low capacity for the 19 but surely First would have did the research beforehand?

Bus Lists on the Web state H40/25F.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Just some updates...

Some service changes came in to affect this past Monday (28th), nothing major other than some minor timing revisions (mostly reductions in running time) and extra morning/evening journeys, the only significant change is that the 13 now operates on a 20 minute frequency right up until around 17:30 whereas before it would drop to a 22-24 minute frequency around 14:15 to allow one bus to come off the route and go on to another service (3/3A).

First are planning to expand the coach hire business to cover all of Scotland (although still based out of Aberdeen), to coincide with this a new brand will be getting launched. Six second hand Mercedes Tourismo's are due to be joining the fleet to facilitate this, they are currently at Coventry waiting to be collected.

Streetdeck-FCEVs are now being used regularly on the 15 at weekends, they are also seeing less regular use on the 11 and 17/18. They have now covered every route on the network except the 20.

Most of the Enviro500s have now been repainted with 38213 currently being done, this just leaves 38205/06/12 in service in Olympia.

List of 'Aberdeen Urban' livery repaints as of 30/06/2021
Citaro: 11106/08/09/10/11/12/13/14/15
B9TL: 37635/36
Enviro500: 38201/02/03/04/08/09/10/11/13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20/21/22/24/25
Streetdeck-FCEV: 39701/02/03/04/05/06/07/08/09/10/11/12/13/14/15
Streetlite: 63196/99/201/203/212/214
Enviro200MMC: N/A
Enviro300: 67783/86/91/93/96/97/98/99/800/01/02/03/04
B7RLE: 69124/30/34/254/58/82/84/90/94

Route branding: Red Line 1/2, Turquoise Line 19.

37635 carries the NHS Rainbow variant of the Urban livery.
38207 has lost it's A2BK Wrap and is now back in Olympia livery, although as it is off the road it likely won't be seeing service until after repaint.
38218-25 were meant to be the 1/2 route branded Enviro500s however 38215 was accidently painted with a red front by Glasgow, as such 38225 is instead unbranded.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Just some updates...

Some service changes came in to affect this past Monday (28th), nothing major other than some minor timing revisions (mostly reductions in running time) and extra morning/evening journeys, the only significant change is that the 13 now operates on a 20 minute frequency right up until around 17:30 whereas before it would drop to a 22-24 minute frequency around 14:15 to allow one bus to come off the route and go on to another service (3/3A).

First are planning to expand the coach hire business to cover all of Scotland (although still based out of Aberdeen), to coincide with this a new brand will be getting launched. Six second hand Mercedes Tourismo's are due to be joining the fleet to facilitate this, they are currently at Coventry waiting to be collected.

Streetdeck-FCEVs are now being used regularly on the 15 at weekends, they are also seeing less regular use on the 11 and 17/18. They have now covered every route on the network except the 20.

Most of the Enviro500s have now been repainted with 38213 currently being done, this just leaves 38205/06/12 in service in Olympia.

List of 'Aberdeen Urban' livery repaints as of 30/06/2021
Citaro: 11106/08/09/10/11/12/13/14/15
B9TL: 37635/36
Enviro500: 38201/02/03/04/08/09/10/11/13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20/21/22/24/25
Streetdeck-FCEV: 39701/02/03/04/05/06/07/08/09/10/11/12/13/14/15
Streetlite: 63196/99/201/203/212/214
Enviro200MMC: N/A
Enviro300: 67783/86/91/93/96/97/98/99/800/01/02/03/04
B7RLE: 69124/30/34/254/58/82/84/90/94

Route branding: Red Line 1/2, Turquoise Line 19.

37635 carries the NHS Rainbow variant of the Urban livery.
38207 has lost it's A2BK Wrap and is now back in Olympia livery, although as it is off the road it likely won't be seeing service until after repaint.
38218-25 were meant to be the 1/2 route branded Enviro500s however 38215 was accidently painted with a red front by Glasgow, as such 38225 is instead unbranded.

Jordan

thanks for the update. Hasn't 69263 also been done? (https://www.flickr.com/photos/84509293@N08/51136079834)

As for the Tourismos, I would presume these are from the many ex-Shearings examples awaiting a new home.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

First are planning to expand the coach hire business to cover all of Scotland (although still based out of Aberdeen), to coincide with this a new brand will be getting launched. Six second hand Mercedes Tourismo's are due to be joining the fleet to facilitate this, they are currently at Coventry waiting to be collected.

As ever, thanks for the comprehensive update.

The line above did catch my eye. Is that managed from Aberdeen with the fleet a) also being based there and used across Scotland or b) they may have coaching outposts in other locations?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Jordan

thanks for the update. Hasn't 69263 also been done? (https://www.flickr.com/photos/84509293@N08/51136079834)

As for the Tourismos, I would presume these are from the many ex-Shearings examples awaiting a new home.

Indeed it has, somehow escaped me when typing out that list! Thanks.

Yes they likely will be. It was mostly 2015 registered examples they were looking at, i believe they went down to inspect them last week.

 

[Volvodart]

I would guess that there will be coaches based in Glasgow and at First Scotland East.

 

[Jordan Adam]

As ever, thanks for the comprehensive update.

The line above did catch my eye. Is that managed from Aberdeen with the fleet a) also being based there and used across Scotland or b) they may have coaching outposts in other locations?

From my understanding the new company will be based and managed from Aberdeen but operating Scotland wide, presumably using other locations as outposts, although it's not exactly clear yet. Since 2016/17 First Aberdeen have generally only done local day hires, rail replacement and school/contract work with touring being stopped following the oil downturn and a slump in demand.
It didn't help that prior to 2019 the newest vehicle in the fleet was an 11 year old Irizar PB while the second newest were 13-14 year old B7R/Profiles so they were struggling to retain work anyway, for example they lost all the International School Aberdeen (ISA) contracts to Premier Coaches.

 

[Deltic1961]

I was just about to say, lots of competition in the North East. Wouldn't imagine the margins would be great.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Would possibly explain the Ex-Parks Elite that Shiel Buses last had is sitting in Caley depot.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Would possibly explain the Ex-Parks Elite that Shiel Buses last had is sitting in Caley depot.

Yes, that'll be SG13RYD (EX-K40SBL & KSK981), there's also an identified Volvo/Levante (not 23501-4), both are said to be for Aberdeen.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Has 38223 officially been withdrawn now? I know it's been off the road for over two years awaiting a new axle, but the most recent photos on Flickr seem to suggest a few bits and pieces have been stripped.