First Capital Connect First Class Accommodation

[causton]

Calling all First Capital Connect experts!
Does anyone know if units 317339 and 317347 have first class accommodation?

I asked FCC myself and they said as the service was booked to have first class "it should be there somewhere"... but I could not find any although I did not walk all the way to the back of the rear unit, but did not see any 1st class logos on the outside!

 

[westcoaster]

Should be in the middle of the set either coach 2 or 3 depending on unit direction.

 

[causton]

Should be in the middle of the set either coach 2 or 3 depending on unit direction.

Cheers

 

[Failed Unit]

Calling all First Capital Connect experts!
Does anyone know if units 317339 and 317347 have first class accommodation?

I asked FCC myself and they said as the service was booked to have first class "it should be there somewhere"... but I could not find any although I did not walk all the way to the back of the rear unit, but did not see any 1st class logos on the outside!

In a very lose sense, you could very easily mistake it for Standard as it is just IC70 seats. I think it is in the middle coach without the pantograph.

However never buy a first class ticket specifically on a service you know is going to be operated by one of these trains, it isn't worth it. Ironic that between Peterborough and London the same seat was standard on some trains.

 

[jopsuk]

On FCC 317s 1st class is in the middle car that does not have the pantograph and motors (and is hence much quieter!), but does have the loos.
Looks like this but the door will usually be open and they may not have put on antimassacrs on the head rests.

1st class is a waste of money on all FCC services.

 

[D365]

Correct, 317/1s have 1st in the TCO. FCC 321/4s have 1st in their DTCOs (one cab vehicle per set), whilst 365s have 1st in their DMOCs (both cab vehicles). Quite a waste if you ask me, I've never seen that many people using the compartments.

 

[causton]

In a very lose sense, you could very easily mistake it for Standard as it is just IC70 seats. I think it is in the middle coach without the pantograph.

However never buy a first class ticket specifically on a service you know is going to be operated by one of these trains, it isn't worth it. Ironic that between Peterborough and London the same seat was standard on some trains.

It was part of a First Class Advance as my connection for another train - but I walked through one unit and know that the seats at least have a different moquette! Hmm!

 

[Bennyboy198]

The Class 317 has first class accommodation towards the middle of the train. But it can be awkward as people are going through first class to get to the other parts of the train. :grin:

 

[jopsuk]

Correct, 317/1s have 1st in the MSO.

Not correct, it's a TCO - Trailer Combined Open. The Motor carriage is Standard only, and an "S" carriage wouldn't, by definition, have 1st class!

 

[D365]

Wrong carriage! :L

 

[Jonny]

Not correct, it's a TCO - Trailer Combined Open. The Motor carriage is Standard only, and an "S" carriage wouldn't, by definition, have 1st class!

I thought the C in TCO stood for composite rather than combined - as does the author of this wikipedia article.

 

[MCR247]

Same here

 

[Skimble19]

Speaking of First class on FCC, I wonder where it will be on the new Thameslink stock, and how that will work..

 

[MCR247]

Well personally I'd say if you put everything towards the middle (first, disabled area, cycle area) it would make life easier as you could have platform markings and they'd been in the same place on both 8 and 12 car trains

 

[All Line Rover]

Well personally I'd say if you put everything towards the middle (first, disabled area, cycle area) it would make life easier as you could have platform markings and they'd been in the same place on both 8 and 12 car trains

And I'd say it's a nuisance as everyone walks through the First Class compartment. (Cue London Midland).

Class 185's are an example of terrible design when it comes to the positioning of First Class. Class 444's and even 170's are the opposite. (The main difficultly with most commuter trains is that the positioning of the doors makes it difficult to fit a reasonably sized First Class compartment at one end of the train, unless one of the end carriages is specifically configured with First Class in mind, which hasn't happened yet).

 

[jopsuk]

the main difficulty with most commuter trains is that they shouldn't have 1st class at all...

 

[asylumxl]

the main difficulty with most commuter trains is that they shouldn't have 1st class at all...

Didn't you hear, FC passengers apparently subsidise all of us lower class commuting riffraff.

Well, supposedly

 

[Class377/5]

the main difficulty with most commuter trains is that they shouldn't have 1st class at all...

Its not the TOC's that need convincing, its the DfT.

 

[Skimble19]

First class in the middle is the worst place possible.. Have you been on an FCC 317 where it's in the middle of the train? There's always people wandering through there, and nearly always people in there who shouldn't be. Whilst you still have fare evaders on 365s, at least you don't get people walking through.

 

[All Line Rover]

the main difficulty with most commuter trains is that they shouldn't have 1st class at all...

If TOCs scrapped First Class on outer-suburban commuter services, a sizeable proportion of well-off commuters would simply switch to using the car! (Or, when moving house, they'd consider Reading, Peterborough, Milton Keynes, Rugby, etc...).

FGW trains between Reading and London Paddington and VT trains between Milton Keynes and London Euston are chock full of First Class passengers (e.g. the 20:10 off Euston, First Class is almost full off Euston and half the carriage alights at Milton Keynes!). I've no experience of East Coast but I suspect the same applies.

Some inner-suburban services and especially the London Underground only lack First Class because people have no other option but to use it! Adding First Class to these services would do little to attract extra custom whilst making the already intolerable conditions even worse.

I still think certain TOCs are missing a trick with First Class, though - e.g. Northern Rail with services to Harrogate (I appreciate it's a little difficult to add First Class to a pacer ).

 

[D365]

Nearly all the 1st class travellers my dad and I see on PBO-KGX FCC semi-fasts are railwaymen who have their travel fares subidised. And he travels every day.

I still think certain TOCs are missing a trick with First Class, though - e.g. Northern Rail with services to Harrogate (I appreciate it's a little difficult to add First Class to a pacer ).

This is being considered (FAQ 4.1) if D78 trains are redeployed on a newly electrified line (750v DC like DLR). The necessity of 1st class provision, and the number of seats, depends on the demand on a particular route.

I wonder how 1st on a Pacer would differ...

 

[ainsworth74]

URL="http://www.harrogatechamber.org/harrogateline_faq1.htm"]This is being considered[/URL] (FAQ 4.1) if D78 trains are redeployed on a newly electrified line (750v DC like DLR). The necessity of 1st class provision, and the number of seats, depends on the demand on a particular route.

Yeah we've discussed that proposal before and pretty much everyone was of the opinion that at best the D78 idea was publicity stunt and no matter what the chances of such a scheme actually going ahead are close to zero (thankfully).

 

[philjo]

First class in the middle is the worst place possible.. Have you been on an FCC 317 where it's in the middle of the train? There's always people wandering through there, and nearly always people in there who shouldn't be. Whilst you still have fare evaders on 365s, at least you don't get people walking through.

Though the 317s have a corridor connection so you would have to be able to walk through if it is operating as 8 or 12 cars. The 365s are not connected between units so the 1st class at the end of each unit makes sense.

 

[Retorus]

I wonder how 1st on a Pacer would differ...

You'd be provided with a free cushion to sit on.

 

[David Goddard]

Personally prefer it to be consistently at the end of the train (ie Cl365, 377, 458 etc) as you know where to wait before the train comes in. Putting it in a middle car of a four car set means that you have a 50/50 chance of being in the right place (this is even more of an issue with the 180s where FC is in car 2 or 4 of 5).
HOWEVER, one problem we did find with FC at the end (on a FSR 170) was that you have to wait longer before the catering trolley comes back with more complimentary refreshments!

 

[MCR247]

Personally prefer it to be consistently at the end of the train (ie Cl365, 377, 458 etc) as you know where to wait before the train comes in. Putting it in a middle car of a four car set means that you have a 50/50 chance of being in the right place (this is even more of an issue with the 180s where FC is in car 2 or 4 of 5).
HOWEVER, one problem we did find with FC at the end (on a FSR 170) was that you have to wait longer before the catering trolley comes back with more complimentary refreshments!

I was saying it being in the middle would be better as having it at one end isn't much good when a sets been turned etc. At least in the middle you can have it say painted on the platforms. This would make it a lot easier to achieve the dwell times the TLP is aiming for. It also mean that it could be in the same place for 8 and 12 car stock

 

[jopsuk]

for the TL stock, both ends, as on the 365s, would be appropriate surely?

NXEA's 317 fleet is a mess in this regard. OK, so 1st is hardly worth the name anyway, but on the /6s it is in a DTCO at one end, whilst in the /5s and /8, it's in the TCO. So when a single unit pulls in, 1st may be in any carriage. Only clue is if it's a /6, it has a black triangle on the 1st class end.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If TOCs scrapped First Class on outer-suburban commuter services, a sizeable proportion of well-off commuters would simply switch to using the car! (Or, when moving house, they'd consider Reading, Peterborough, Milton Keynes, Rugby, etc...)..

Until they brought it back in with the "Silver Service" trains, Chiltern, serving very affluent parts of the London commuter belt, had no 1st class.

 

[All Line Rover]

Until they brought it back in with the "Silver Service" trains, Chiltern, serving very affluent parts of the London commuter belt, had no 1st class.

And I'm sure Chiltern will bring back more First Class in due course. (But then again, they deserve credit for the excellent levels of Standard Class accommodation on their trains).

 

[jopsuk]

Why are you so sure? They after all specced the 168s without any 1st class when they ordered them.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Until they brought it back in with the "Silver Service" trains, Chiltern, serving very affluent parts of the London commuter belt, had no 1st class.

The thing is, the "silver service" rarely stops anywhere within 50 miles of London.
The Banbury commuter rake runs once a day in each direction and while it has a first class coach inside, it's declassified. The overwhelming majority of the very affluent commuter belt on the Chilterns (shall we say Bicester and south of?) is served by class 165s with 3+2 airline seats.