First Captial Connect 317 brake problems?

[Stevenage91]

Afternoon to all.

I quick question about a First Capital Connect service that I was on the other day.

I was only doing a short run from Knebworth to Welwyn Garden city, and noticed that the compressor on the underside of the class 317, was constantly starting up. As sad as it may be, but I counted how long the pause was between when the compressor stopped and when the compressor restarted and it was only 20 seconds every time.

Not only was it loud and constant on my short journey, but from what I know the compressor is there for the air brake, so does that mean there could have been a fault with the brakes or brake pipes?
This theory sprang to mind after I noticed the train braked early upon arrival at Welwyn North and came to a sudden stop when in the station?

Any ideas what was going on?

Many thanks,

Stevenage91

 

[Smudger105e]

There are numerous air operated sytems on modern rolling stock, but that does appear a little excessive.

Any air leak could have such an effect on compressor running, or a compressor governor defect could be the cause...

 

[W230]

I believe on a 319, (I know you're talking about a 317), the brakes, suspension and doors all have their own reservoirs along with a main reservoir. I would imagine a 317 would be similar at least so it could effectively be a problem with any of those systems or the compressor itself as already suggested.

 

[Stevenage91]

Evening all.

Thanks for the replies, I never really thought about all the other things that rely on compressed air to work properly.

After the suggestions made, I still think that having a train running with poteintal faults as suggested is a bit unsafe? Surly it should be taken out of service as soon as possible?

Regards,

Stevenage91

 

[O L Leigh]

After the suggestions made, I still think that having a train running with poteintal faults as suggested is a bit unsafe? Surly it should be taken out of service as soon as possible?

Thankfully those of us who know about, use and work on trains such as these know what we're doing and what is and is not safe.

O L Leigh

 

[millemille]

Evening all.

Thanks for the replies, I never really thought about all the other things that rely on compressed air to work properly.

After the suggestions made, I still think that having a train running with poteintal faults as suggested is a bit unsafe? Surly it should be taken out of service as soon as possible?

Regards,

Stevenage91

So you have no idea what was wrong with the unit but you think it should be OOS?

Maybe you should accept that a professional operating company such as FCC know what they are doing and are managing in service defects in accordance with their operating and safety standards?

 

[yorkie]

After the suggestions made, I still think that having a train running with poteintal faults as suggested is a bit unsafe?

What is unsafe, what's the potential danger?

 

[jon0844]

If you think it's potentially dangerous, Tweet @FirstCC and give them the details for them to pass on. They'll hopefully ask for any more info or update you as appropriate.

The good thing about Twitter is that it's now on record for others to see, so they'll not just ignore it! They man the service from very early until around 2200 (later during extreme disruption).

 

[Stevenage91]

Evening all, once again.

I would like to state now that I am not questioning FCC's know-how about there locos, I simple wanted to know what the problem could be.

I understand that FCC know what they are doing, and that they will know more than I do, and I was not saying that they don't know what they are doing.

However, I assumed that with current health a safety factors, potential threats that 'could' cause problems with brakes, doors, e.c.t they would be fixed when they can.

Regards,

Stevenage91

 

[O L Leigh]

However, I assumed that with current health a safety factors, potential threats that 'could' cause problems with brakes, doors, e.c.t they would be fixed when they can.

But there is no fault.

The unit uses air and when the pressure drops below a certain point the compressor runs to replenish the system. Some use more air than others, some have the compressor governers set high, some leak air slightly, all of which could explain why the compressor runs more frequently on some units than others. But provided that the compressor is running it will be unlikely that the unit will totally run out of air. In fact, while there is one compressor on each 4 car unit they are more than sufficient to supply an 8 car train. More than once I've had a double unit where one unit had a failed compressor.

But even if the compressor packs up there is still no problem. If the air pressure drops too low it will break the brake continuity circuit which will cause an emergency brake application to stop the train.

So you can relax and stop panicking now.

O L Leigh

 

[Stevenage91]

But there is no fault.

The unit uses air and when the pressure drops below a certain point the compressor runs to replenish the system. Some use more air than others, some have the compressor governers set high, some leak air slightly, all of which could explain why the compressor runs more frequently on some units than others. But provided that the compressor is running it will be unlikely that the unit will totally run out of air. In fact, while there is one compressor on each 4 car unit they are more than sufficient to supply an 8 car train. More than once I've had a double unit where one unit had a failed compressor.

O L Leigh

Thank you for the reply, that is all I wished to know.

Cheers for the replies,

Stevenage91

 

[yorkie]

However, I assumed that with current health a safety factors

?

potential threats that 'could' cause problems with brakes, doors, e.c.t they would be fixed when they can.

If the brakes fail, the train won't move (See fail-safe), so armed with that knowledge, you can relax on your next trip if you hear similar noises again

 

[jon0844]

As I said, if you think something might be wrong (even if it's absolutely nothing) feel free to report it and give the unit/carriage number. Then they can at the very least investigate. If it was faulty, you've done them a favour - if not, no (serious) harm done. Clearly, waiting until you post on here for those that really do know to say 'hey, that's normal' isn't good IF you skipped reporting something that was potentially dangerous.

I've reported trim hanging down from the ceiling, as well as panels open that exposed cabling that - although safe to the touch - might not be good for potential vandals. It's probably more effective than emailing customer services, as the people managing the Twitter account at Hertford House will likely know who to pass the messages on to. What's more, they acknowledge your message in a matter of seconds in most cases!

 

[BestWestern]

I think the OP was given a rather harsh ride here, he was only asking a question after all! It's not totally outrageous to wonder whether a train with the air compressor running almost constantly might be a problem. I once had a chap ask me why the door open buttons were lit on my 158 as we tanked along at 90 - I had to point out they were for the toilet! People ask questions, that's part of what this forum is for; the answers have a tendency to be rather obvious when you already know them. Relax gentlemen!

Maybe you should accept that a professional operating company such as FCC know what they are doing and are managing in service defects in accordance with their operating and safety standards?

^^ Chuckle chuckle chuckle

 

[A-driver]

^^ Chuckle chuckle chuckle

You beat me to it! Was just going to say very similar. Knowing how desperate hornsey are to avoid cancelling trains due to faults you could phone them in a prep and say coach 2 has no roof, all the wheels have been nicked from coach 3 and coach 4 is currently on fire and they would still try and pressure you into taking it into service!

 

[jon0844]

you could phone them in a prep and say coach 2 has no roof, all the wheels have been nicked from coach 3 and coach 4 is currently on fire and they would still try and pressure you into taking it into service!

I think I got that train once.

 

[O L Leigh]

Funny that, given that Hornsey is always held up as some sort of paragon of virtue on the WA side. Given the option of going back, many drivers would snap up the opportunity.

O L Leigh

 

[A-driver]

What I find funny about Hornsey is that whenever I take out a 321 or 313/1 they are so nice to drive-smooth acceleration, decent brakes, feel solid etc. or at least compared to 317,365,313/0. I can only assume its because Hornsey havnt had them for long enough yet!

Of course in all seriousness Hornsey obviouslywon't let anything out in a dangerous condition but it just seems lately that loads of 'minor' annoying things are going wrong-faulty pa, windscreen wipers which won't switch off, door faults, missing cab light bulbs, unlit speedos etc. and what annoys me is that when you refuse to enter service with something like a faulty pa or door locked out that breaks fire regs etc Hornsey seem to make you out to be awkward and militant as it affects their bonus whereas actually the driver is just doing his job and protecting himself.

 

[jon0844]

You need to refuse to take out anything that might affect you, or else the problem will get worse.

I've been on a few trains with missing internal doors (not just locked open) and increasingly I'm finding trains have no working PIS. Not safety issues, but still very inconvenient for a lot of people.

 

[jopsuk]

Funny that, given that Hornsey is always held up as some sort of paragon of virtue on the WA side. Given the option of going back, many drivers would snap up the opportunity.

O L Leigh

"Grass is greener" syndrome?

 

[O L Leigh]

Nostalgia more like. Everyone remembers how nice it was but conveniently forgets all the bad things that happened and what a pig of a place it was to get into and out of.

O L Leigh