First class standards worstening on new trains

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by InterCity:125, 7 Aug 2018.

  1. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    They didn't do that on GTR or SWR. SWR actually reintroduced first class on the Guildford to Ascot line, when enough 450 rolling stock was avilable to run all trains with first class. Even GWR has first class on its North Downs Line.
     
  2. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Well that I'd what I read so if it's not the case, someone was lying.
     
  3. InterCity:125

    InterCity:125 Member

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    Last Thursday the delayed 10:00 1A12 departure from BTM to London Paddington had a first class coach mixed in with the standards. I presume it was declassified?
    The usual one and a half first class cars were on the end.
     
  4. Doomotron

    Doomotron Member

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    The guard made no attempt to declassify first class, so the man standing next to me and my mother had to stand from Bath into London. My mother offered him her seat but he didn't take it.
     
  5. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    You've probably read it on here; some people think it is true, but it's not entirely true (it is true that the cheapest way to meet the regulations is to reduce the amount of foam).
     
  6. InterCity:125

    InterCity:125 Member

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    A few years back when a train broke down in the Severn tunnel trains diverted via Gloucester didn’t have decalassidied first; they had free upgrades. Still got drinks and a newspaper on standard class fare. ;)
     
  7. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Your previous post was spot on: it is down to cost saving. And those specifying them not giving a stuff about the punters.

    Those involved with specifying new seats should be forced - before buying them - to sit in them for the longest journey they would be used on and made to pay the fare for that journey as well. That way they might just start to understand what the passengers have to endure.
     
  8. dorsetdesiro

    dorsetdesiro Member

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    Yes, make them sit in Standard all the way to Inverness on one of LNER's new Azumas preferably handcuffed to the armrests! Or even better, run a special London-Inverness stopping service subleasing a Thameslink 700 with the ironing boards...
     
  9. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    IIRC, most leather in trains tends to be synthetic "e-leather", which, when burned gives off poisonous fumes alongside melting and sticking to all and sundry.
    However, I suspect that real leather is more expensive to acquire than its synthetic equivalent, and I also suspect that animal rights activists would have a field day (pardon the pun) if they discovered that they were reclining on a seat covered in a deceased cow's hide...
     
  10. w1bbl3

    w1bbl3 Member

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    Sort of the standard used measure the fire behaviour of materials within a rail carriage has changed recently and the new standard is quite a bit more onerous than the previous standard. However this standard is for all new materials fitted to rail carriage not just for new build carriages.

    There are now synthetic leathers that have been tested to meet the new standard, however these have only become available in last couple of years so current new builds which will have had the interiors specified a while ago such as the 800's didn't have the option to use them.

    In terms of genuine leather whilst it is more fire resistant then PU leathers it does have higher ongoing care the maintenance costs terms cleaning, feeding and repairing to keep it looking decent.
     
  11. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    I don’t mind the 700 first class, although it’s hardly luxurious and still has a very utilitarian feel - definitely no wow factor here. The seats are certainly more comfortable than the ironing boards and with much better legroom - and the single seat next to the cab door is a nice feature too. If the whole train was like the first class then they actually would be just about acceptable. The swing door is one negative feature, although I do understand the reasoning for why it’s been done like that.
     
  12. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    It never ceases to amaze me how confused people get by the door. They stop and look at it. Where's the button to open? Why isn't it opening itself? Do you push? Do you pull?

    I know, pull it. Yes, that works even if it is the most inconvenient way to open it....
     
  13. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Most of them (in my not massively extensive!) experience seem to somewhat creepily swing about of their own accord anyway. They should have partitioned off the doorway at the very end of the train too - that would produce a rather nice almost private compartment next to the cab...

    ...which would then at times become the GTR drivers off-duty mobile messroom no doubt!
     
  14. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    So called e-leather is a composite consisting of actual leather fibres from waste/cut-off leather products in a matrix of vinyl. So it's a bit of both, it isn't just 1980s-car-style plastic.

    Aircraft, even new ones, often have "leather" seats (Ryanair are particularly fond because of the ease of cleaning), and their fire standards are particularly tight, so it clearly can't be impossible.

    But in any case I prefer moquette anyway :)
     
  15. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    TBH the more I think about it, the more I think they should abolish 1st on Thameslink and instead have fitted the whole train with that type of seat, in 2+2 at the outer ends and 2+1 in the middle to allow for standing space.
     
  16. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    On some services it doesn't exist and on others it only exists at one end, providing its a class 700 and not some other GTR stock being substituted.
     
  17. Journeyman

    Journeyman Member

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    Back in 2010, when the first Edinburgh tram was delivered, it was put on display in Princes Street to promote the project, and I was one of the team on board showing it off. A big feature we were asked to promote was the high-quality interior, which featured leather seats. I was ranted at quite fulsomely by a rather upset vegan over this feature, who swore she would never use the trams as a result.

    Most other people were quite impressed, and it has to be said that the seats are standing up to use and abuse quite well.
     
  18. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    Ahh yes, I'm not the biggest aviation nut in the world, so a seat on a plane is a seat on a plane in my book.
    Leather can work well in first class, if applied quite tastefully (GWR's HST 1st Class is an example) but TPE's cream-coloured leather in quite a bright, clinical environment (their new 1st class) will show up the dirt much more boldly.
    I prefer moquette if the colour suits it (e.g. XC's 1st Class, where the seats are purple) though.
     
  19. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I agree, cream coloured seats (and light grey ones in the Mk5s) was nuts, they will be filthy in a week. Deep colours or dark greys with colour highlighting works best.

    Even the Standard seats in the 185s are a bit garishly bright, a darker blue would work better.
     
  20. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    I’d have been reasonably content with that - especially on the 8-car units in particular. I’m not even convinced the 2+1 would actually be necessary - the aisle is still reasonably wide in first, and could be made more accessible by getting rid of the armrests.

    I suspect abolition would lead to a backlash at certain locations though.
     
  21. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Chiltern got away with it (OK it came back to a fashion, but that's just because they got some Mk3 FOs), and that's in about the poshest commuter area there is.

    Notably their refurbed 165s have both 2+2 and 3+2 seating.
     
  22. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Chiltern don’t have any FOs, or at least those they do have have been converted to TSO. Are you referring to the RFMs/buffet cars?
     
  23. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Fair point about Chiltern. I'm not sure one could get away with using the same rationale of trying to sell the 700s as some kind of "upgrade for everyone" though! Might have got away with that with the 387s, just about, but definitely not with the 700s!
     
  24. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I think if they'd gone straight from 319s they might have managed it, but the problem is that they had the rather nicer Electrostars in the interim.
     
  25. gsnedders

    gsnedders Member

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    Well, maybe. I don't think expecting anyone to sit on a train from Aberdeen to Penzance is all too likely. (Yes, it does happen, but it's exceptionally rare!)
     
  26. InterCity:125

    InterCity:125 Member

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    When the class 800s were up for testing all the workers in high-vis were in first class!
    its mostly train enthusiasts who want to do the longest train.
     
  27. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Definitely not on the GN side. Notwithstanding the Electrostars appearing on a few services into the interim, there's no way anyone could sell the 700 as an upgrade on 365s - even after their refurbishment downgraded the ambience. First class on the 365s is very nice indeed - even the Queen seems to like it! The current situation fudges this a little as many commuter services are still 365 or 387 (albeit with their first being identical to standard, but with good partitioning), so most peak-time commuters on the GN side can avoid 700s if they so desire. Off-peak first travel is naturally much less, and I don't think there was ever so much first usage on the stopping services particularly inwards of Hitchin.
     
  28. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    there is alot of spin on this subject.

    The seats fall WITHIN the fire regulations, they are not the best possible seats that are allowed under the fire regulations. But they are probably one of the cheapest designs!
     
  29. Mag_seven

    Mag_seven Established Member

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    On the contrary, no enthusiast worth his/her salt would be seen dead on a Voyager. ;)
     
  30. InterCity:125

    InterCity:125 Member

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    Sadly it’s the only way between the north and south west. :'(
     

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