First Greater Glasgow

[alangla]

B10 Artics were torture in the summer when they were new. More glass than a greenhouse & no opening windows other than 2 tiny skylights. Clearly they were meant to have air conditioning but it was never fitted. The B7s have always been awful, they vibrated like mad even when new & the toilet box was great for transmitting engine noise into the cabin. The 51 plate B10s were good though, wish they’d bought a lot more of these

 

[alangla]

Also, total aside, but does everyone else get the banner ad for “First Bus, full of more” with a cartoon pic of 18&75 branded E400s passing the SECC when they view this page? Not a bad little ad

 

[Jordan Adam]

B10 Artics were torture in the summer when they were new. More glass than a greenhouse & no opening windows other than 2 tiny skylights. Clearly they were meant to have air conditioning but it was never fitted. The B7s have always been awful, they vibrated like mad even when new & the toilet box was great for transmitting engine noise into the cabin. The 51 plate B10s were good though, wish they’d bought a lot more of these

They seemed ok when ever i used them, although by this point they had 2 opening windows in the rear section.

 

[route101]

Was on a B7L on a 3 the other day. Absolutely horrible inside, seats were even more rock hard than I remember and it was manky. Very much past its best.

Yeah , used to hate when one of them turned up on a 6 . The back were always dirty and they are really noisy .

 

[route101]

It feels rather odd that the end is almost upon us for the B10BLEs and B7Ls. I remember them entering service back in 2001/2002 on to the 62, 61 and 40 routes. The B10s were always far better to travel on than the B7s. I don’t ever remember the B7s being nice even when new. The engines were loud, the were uncomfy, rattled and always stank up the back of urine. I always thought over time they would be cascaded elsewhere but they’ve stuck with the FiG fleet since introduction. Definately not a bus which will be missed in my opinion but I miss the quality of buses Wright and Volvo produced.

Presumably the E200s will soon be upon us.

What did the B7Ls and B10BLES replace on them routes in 2001 and 2002?

 

[alangla]

What did the B7Ls and B10BLES replace on them routes in 2001 and 2002?

R and S plate low floor Scanias if I remember right. It was a weird time, with loads of new stock coming in, but knackered dross like the Ailsas hanging about. It was also the start of mass inter-fleet transfers affecting Glasgow

 

[Whiteway215]

How many B7Ls and B10BLEs are left in service now then and are they all scheduled to be replaced in the not too distant future?

 

[tbtc]

Sadly they all date from the worst period of First interiors where they decided not to have decided not to have any other than minimal padding on seats and very quickly, they felt like fabric just stretched over plastic

Fair comment - we (in South Yorkshire) got around fifty of the 02/52 plate B7Ls from Manchester's 2002 Commonwealth Games, then inherited an assortment of dreadful X/51 plates from Glasgow (in exchange for the 53/06 plate Geminis) - why First thought that a hilly city like Sheffield was suitable for these struggling buses is a mystery.

I don't know why there was this period between the well padded B10BLE seats and the reasonable padding on modern buses - it seems such a trivially minor saving to try to economise on - but this is First, where such accounting savings seem to be prioritised.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

R and S plate low floor Scanias if I remember right. It was a weird time, with loads of new stock coming in, but knackered dross like the Ailsas hanging about. It was also the start of mass inter-fleet transfers affecting Glasgow

I was a huge fan of the Scania’s, especially the L113s. They were good buses and really comfy from what I remember. Those were the good old days where you could get anything from a L94, L113, B10M, Royale on the 62. Shame a lot of the L113s left the Glasgow fleet for Chester. They were good buses.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

How many B7Ls and B10BLEs are left in service now then and are they all scheduled to be replaced in the not too distant future?

I’m sure I read somewhere that some B10BLEs had been withdrawn already with some being in RTAs but not 100% sure on that?

Still see plenty of B7Ls about sadly. Wish they’d gone to Lanarkshire instead of the B10BLEs. The 60 seems to see a lot of B7Ls still and they’re normally a regular on the 46 but noticed a lot more Tridents on this route as of recent. The B7Ls are euro 3 if I’m not mistaken so probably the B10s will go first and the dreadful B7s shortly afterwards.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Fair comment - we (in South Yorkshire) got around fifty of the 02/52 plate B7Ls from Manchester's 2002 Commonwealth Games

It was more of the same batch of vehicles that also ended up in the South West - some relatively new at the time and some that had been via Northampton and Norwich - you've got a couple in Donny (I think).

I don't know why there was this period between the well padded B10BLE seats and the reasonable padding on modern buses - it seems such a trivially minor saving to try to economise on - but this is First, where such accounting savings seem to be prioritised.

No idea but from 2000 to 2003, it was deemed as such and not just on B7Ls but also on B10BLEs, B7TLs and B6s.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Sadly they all date from the worst period of First interiors where they decided not to have decided not to have any other than minimal padding on seats and very quickly, they felt like fabric just stretched over plastic. The later B10BLEs were equally as sparse though they didn't suffer from the noise and intrusion of the B7L.

I quite liked the spirited performance of the examples in the South West but lord, you felt every bump!

While i agree, the seats are actually fairly decent if properly padded. Our B10s all had seat retrims between August 2017 and the start of this year. The seats are surprisingly comfy, the narrow backs on the seats also slightly improve legroom.

 

[Strathclyder]

I’m sure I read somewhere that some B10BLEs had been withdrawn already with some being in RTAs but not 100% sure on that?

7 B10BLEs have been withdrawn over the last year or so. In ascending order, they are: 61602 (SF51 YAJ), 61603 (SF51 YAK), 61605 (SF51 YAU), 61607 (SF51 YAW), 61620 (SF51 YBM), 61626 (SF51 YBT) & 61707 (Y303 RTD). Of the above, 602 & 603 were RTA victims, 605/607/620/626/707 were surplus to requirements and/or had mechanical faults not worth fixing & 626 suffered fire damage. An 8th example (Blantyre's SF51 YAG/61600) also spent a period withdrawn for much the same reasons as 605 etc., but was revived with the engine out of 602.

 

[JonnyB1984]

How many B7Ls and B10BLEs are left in service now then and are they all scheduled to be replaced in the not too distant future?

B7L's - Glasgow still has around 25-30 of these in service (Mostly if not all at Caley Depot)
B10BLE's - Overtown has about 15-17 still in service, Blantyre has 4 or 5, Dumbarton has at least 4 and maybe 1 or 2 at another depot.

B10BLE's in Lanarkshire will start to be withdrawn this month when the new E200mmcs arrive for service 241. 242 also is dominated by these vehicles but again they are due to be withdrawn once the streetlites arrive that will be coming from service 34. The 242 will then get upgraded to E200MMCs around Jan-March 2019 which will then see the streetlites move over to service 266.

So Overtown is looking at having all B10BLE's withdrawn before the end of the year as long as everything due arrives.

The B7Ls will start to be withdrawn by the end of this year/start of next when more E200mmcs are due.

 

[Strathclyder]

No idea but from 2000 to 2003, it was deemed as such and not just on B7Ls but also on B10BLEs, B7TLs and B6s.

That seating was standard across the board within the time period you quote; Darts, Tridents, Solos, Scanias etc. all had this type of seating. Only the diabolical 'Urban90' equals it in terms of back-breaking ability ('specially for this 6ft streak 'o misery). They really are the only thing letting the otherwise brilliant B10BLEs down.

The seating in the ex-Hutchisions of Overtown B10BLEs (66233/234 & 66281/282) are/were* far superior (yes, of course the seating in those was specified by a different operator, but the point still stands). Of course, from 2003 onwards, the seating specified for First stock was infinitely more comfortable; with the 53-reg ALX400-bodied Tridents being far more comfortable to travel on than their slightly older President-bodied counterparts.

*: 66233/234, being X-regs (X303/304 JGE for those curious), are long gone.

 

[Jordan Adam]

7 B10BLEs have been withdrawn over the last year or so. In ascending order, they are: 61602 (SF51 YAJ), 61603 (SF51 YAK), 61605 (SF51 YAU), 61607 (SF51 YAW), 61620 (SF51 YBM), 61626 (SF51 YBT) & 61707 (Y303 RTD). Of the above, 602 & 603 were RTA victims, 605/607/620/626/707 were surplus to requirements and/or had mechanical faults not worth fixing & 626 suffered fire damage. An 8th example (Blantyre's SF51 YAG/61600) also spent a period withdrawn for much the same reasons as 605 etc., but was revived with the engine out of 602.

Not to forget 62163/64/69/77 which joined the fleet in August have also left now.

62169 moved back to Aberdeen yesterday. 62163/64/77 on paper have moved to Livingston. But this may not be the actual case as 62169 was shown as moving to Livingston too, despite the fact it was at Caledonia being converted to a trainer and then to Aberdeen!

 

[lastbus]

B7L's - Glasgow still has around 25-30 of these in service (Mostly if not all at Caley Depot)
B10BLE's - Overtown has about 15-17 still in service, Blantyre has 4 or 5, Dumbarton has at least 4 and maybe 1 or 2 at another depot.

B10BLE's in Lanarkshire will start to be withdrawn this month when the new E200mmcs arrive for service 241. 242 also is dominated by these vehicles but again they are due to be withdrawn once the streetlites arrive that will be coming from service 34. The 242 will then get upgraded to E200MMCs around Jan-March 2019 which will then see the streetlites move over to service 266.

So Overtown is looking at having all B10BLE's withdrawn before the end of the year as long as everything due arrives.

The B7Ls will start to be withdrawn by the end of this year/start of next when more E200mmcs are due.

Have heard the streetlites will go to Dumbarton once the 242 buses arrive

 

[sannox]

The B7L had a "best" period?..... It also struck me as odd how the B7L is utterly vile at a non-enthusiast perspective, but the B7LA which is pretty much the same thing (Albeit articulated with a 3rd axle) are quite pleasant.

Fair point - perhaps on day 1 they were passable! First interior colours never seem to date well, I think on Paisley Road West the difference between McGill's and First is stark!

 

[Darklord8899]

Just spotted this from Monday's N&P (05/11/18)
As I know nothing of the acts these relate to, not sure how serious this is, but I'm assuming they are being called to account for something going wrong.....

Section 5.1 – Notice of Public Inquiries to be Held Public Inquiry

Public enquiry (78102) to be held at Level 6 (Edinburgh), EH1 3EG, The Stamp Office, 10 Waterloo Place, Edinburgh, on 8 November 2018 commencing at 10:00
PM0000001 SN FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD Director(s): DOUGLAS HARRISON, RONALD RUSSELL WILLIAMSON, DAVID BRIAN ALEXANDER, DUNCAN CAMERON, ANDREW SIMON JARVIS, GARY WEST, GRAEME MACFARLANE 100 CATHCART ROAD, GLASGOW, G42 7BH
S17 - Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 17 (The Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981)
S28 - Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 28 (The Transport Act 1985)
Sch.3 - Consideration of Transport Managers Repute under Schedule 3 (The Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981)

Public Inquiry (78106) to be held at Level 6 (Edinburgh), EH1 3EG, The Stamp Office, 10 Waterloo Place, Edinburgh, on 8 November 2018 commencing at 10:00
PM0000006 SN FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD Director(s): DOUGLAS HARRISON, RONALD RUSSELL WILLIAMSON, DAVID BRIAN ALEXANDER, DUNCAN CAMERON, ANDREW SIMON JARVIS, GARY WEST, GRAEME MACFARLANE 100 CATHCART ROAD, GLASGOW, G42 7BH
S17 - Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 17 (The Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981)
S28 - Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 28 (The Transport Act 1985)
Sch.3 - Consideration of Transport Managers Repute under Schedule 3 (The Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981)

 

[Jordan Adam]

Fair point - perhaps on day 1 they were passable! First interior colours never seem to date well, I think on Paisley Road West the difference between McGill's and First is stark!

I wouldn't quite agree, the interior first used from around 1998 to 2011 (known as the "barbie interior") ages quite well. The current palate, not so!

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Was having a look at the photos from the Euro Bus Expo 2018.

The E200EV looks great and very smart with the bigger wheels.

I also think it’d be interesting to see First but Ciatros or Volvo 7900s for ‘the One’ service.

I also think the Metrodeckers look like good buses. I always thought they’d look good on the 18. The metro city buses could also work the 201 - just my imagination!

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Was having a look at the photos from the Euro Bus Expo 2018.

The E200EV looks great and very smart with the bigger wheels.

I also think it’d be interesting to see First but Ciatros or Volvo 7900s for ‘the One’ service.

I also think the Metrodeckers look like good buses. I always thought they’d look good on the 18. The metro city buses could also work the 201 - just my imagination!

Nothing against any bus/engine manufacturer, Never rode on a Metrodecker, according to Reading Buses, they purchased these for the 702 route from Reading to London because they were suitable for the route.

The biggest downside with a Metrodecker for use on the 18 is the number of steep hills on the route, particularly nearing East Kilbride and Greenhills, Optare and Wrightbus both fit Daimlers small 5.1ltr/4-Cylinder engine to these Deckers, not a big notice for flat/city routes, but there no good at climbing hills.

Volvos 7900’s, regardless of them being fully Electric or diesel-Hybrid versions dont have much seating in them, particularly as the fuel tank eats into the front offside wheelsarch on the hybrid(electric version has batteries on the roof), plus the hybrids are very sluggish to get up and going with because of there relatively small electric motor and iShift gearbox, considering “the one” is a busy corridor diesel only suits it far better.

I say it without fail, Volvo Eclipse singles are by far the most logical answer for the one, For the One’s that go to Balloch anyways, the 1C and 1D are abit odd as “One” services, I reckon these should have different route numbers considering they go no where near balloch

 

[Gingerbus1991]

It looks as though an operator in Glasgow is using Baumot for its E6 conversions, could this be FiG?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Nothing against any bus/engine manufacturer, Never rode on a Metrodecker, according to Reading Buses, they purchased these for the 702 route from Reading to London because they were suitable for the route.

The biggest downside with a Metrodecker for use on the 18 is the number of steep hills on the route, particularly nearing East Kilbride and Greenhills, Optare and Wrightbus both fit Daimlers small 5.1ltr/4-Cylinder engine to these Deckers, not a big notice for flat/city routes, but there no good at climbing hills.

Volvos 7900’s, regardless of them being fully Electric or diesel-Hybrid versions dont have much seating in them, particularly as the fuel tank eats into the front offside wheelsarch on the hybrid(electric version has batteries on the roof), plus the hybrids are very sluggish to get up and going with because of there relatively small electric motor and iShift gearbox, considering “the one” is a busy corridor diesel only suits it far better.

I say it without fail, Volvo Eclipse singles are by far the most logical answer for the one, For the One’s that go to Balloch anyways, the 1C and 1D are abit odd as “One” services, I reckon these should have different route numbers considering they go no where near balloch

Interesting points there - thank you! I did see an interior pic of the 7900s and did notice there wasn’t a lot of seating. I think you’re right about Volvo Eclipses being ideal for the one. Either way I think the route needs upgrading. It’s always busy during peak times. Even off peak it gets a pretty good crowd. The B9TLs are always full on passing. I never really thought the E300s were the right buses for that route.

 

[route101]

B7L's - Glasgow still has around 25-30 of these in service (Mostly if not all at Caley Depot)
B10BLE's - Overtown has about 15-17 still in service, Blantyre has 4 or 5, Dumbarton has at least 4 and maybe 1 or 2 at another depot.

B10BLE's in Lanarkshire will start to be withdrawn this month when the new E200mmcs arrive for service 241. 242 also is dominated by these vehicles but again they are due to be withdrawn once the streetlites arrive that will be coming from service 34. The 242 will then get upgraded to E200MMCs around Jan-March 2019 which will then see the streetlites move over to service 266.

So Overtown is looking at having all B10BLE's withdrawn before the end of the year as long as everything due arrives.

The B7Ls will start to be withdrawn by the end of this year/start of next when more E200mmcs are due.

I seen a B10BLE on a 201 up EK last night . Few were on the 263 but not seen for a few weeks . Routes like 64 , 65 , 8 etc you will find B7Ls

 

[route101]

Interesting points there - thank you! I did see an interior pic of the 7900s and did notice there wasn’t a lot of seating. I think you’re right about Volvo Eclipses being ideal for the one. Either way I think the route needs upgrading. It’s always busy during peak times. Even off peak it gets a pretty good crowd. The B9TLs are always full on passing. I never really thought the E300s were the right buses for that route.

Suprised they didnt make the X4 a one route .

 

[route101]

Fair point - perhaps on day 1 they were passable! First interior colours never seem to date well, I think on Paisley Road West the difference between McGill's and First is stark!

Yeah , Firsts Eclipses , all they done was some pink route branding . McGills buses are nicer , though deckers would be nice on the 38 .

 

[route101]

R and S plate low floor Scanias if I remember right. It was a weird time, with loads of new stock coming in, but knackered dross like the Ailsas hanging about. It was also the start of mass inter-fleet transfers affecting Glasgow

I see , i never took interest in buses then , i only knew the Scania s at Larky . Did the r and s plates replace LAs ?

 

[route101]

That seating was standard across the board within the time period you quote; Darts, Tridents, Solos, Scanias etc. all had this type of seating. Only the diabolical 'Urban90' equals it in terms of back-breaking ability ('specially for this 6ft streak 'o misery). They really are the only thing letting the otherwise brilliant B10BLEs down.

The seating in the ex-Hutchisions of Overtown B10BLEs (66233/234 & 66281/282) are/were* far superior (yes, of course the seating in those was specified by a different operator, but the point still stands). Of course, from 2003 onwards, the seating specified for First stock was infinitely more comfortable; with the 53-reg ALX400-bodied Tridents being far more comfortable to travel on than their slightly older President-bodied counterparts.

*: 66233/234, being X-regs (X303/304 JGE for those curious), are long gone.

The same seating is on the Tridents . Hard . Though strangley find it more comfortable than the 68 plate E400MMCS , the darts had the same seating as the r and s reg scanias and w reg tridents , more paddding.

 

[sannox]

I wouldn't quite agree, the interior first used from around 1998 to 2011 (known as the "barbie interior") ages quite well. The current palate, not so!

Strange I'm the other way round! Would say I'm not sold on seats and the pink poles are a bit lurid but it's light and airy. The barbie interior for me was too dark, in particular dark purple panels and flooring, the light grey floors make a difference. Some of the off white coloured panels on the old barbie often always looked manky too!