The 11 and 42 were 2 of my most used routes to be fair. Pretty good services to use. The 11 was often plagued by bad reliability and I remember at night it very often failed to turn up. It was just unfortunate that it was the only bus where my gran stayed at the time
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Busman84
Member
The 42 was well used and a route that even returned for a while but partly replaced when Simplicity was launched by 38B. The 64 used to be a well used route too. First eventually showed no interest on non core routes and with the cuts ruined and passenger dwindled.
Glasgowbusguy
On Moderation
- Joined
- 21 Feb 2019
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Prime example of a lost route are the 51 and 62D
Surprised the 64 isn't gone to be fair. Used it quite a few times and it's very rarely had more than 6/7 passengers. Carmyle isn't massive by any stretch plus the train station is in a good position to walk to then it's easy enough to walk to get another bus on most of the route whether you want to go to Parkhead or the City Centre. Carmyle also has SPT tenders all day anyway too which highlights the problem of a lack of bus use there
Stan Drews
Established Member
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Depends how far back you want to go?
The 37 was a long standing route, and ‘back in the day’ was very frequent. I’m pretty certain it was still every 10 or 12mins in the early 80s.
Busman84
Member
Perhaps in Corpy days the 37 may have been 10 minutes. Back in SBL days I remembered it interworked most of it days with 34 it was 20 minutes then. By the late 90s (maybe Overground) 37 was extended to Rutherglen. This ran most of the day there at 15 minute service I’m sure. By 2004/05 the 37 then became half hourly but jointly worked in with 31 which was extended to Milton and eventually 37 scrapped but 31 continued to Milton (think around 2009). The 31 now isn’t much of a route running only from Town to Carmunnock.. More people around Kings Park, Mt Florida and Crosshill have switched to using the train. Train also cheaper off peak. Cathcart Rd once a busy corridor regarding buses.
I seem to remember the 37 usually had deckers on it LOs and Ailsas. Amazing how almost no uses the bus along Cathcart Road.
GaryBrown156
Member
- Joined
- 28 Apr 2015
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- 67
I have fond memories of the 37.
Growing up as a child in the 90's/early 00's in Springburn that was always our bus of choice into town. When I was little my parents used to take me to Glasgow Green at the weekends so the 37 was ideal as it stopped just around the corner from the house and dropped you off right next to the green.
At some point in the late 90's the route was altered to go via Trongate and Stockwell Street but by that stage that route actually suited me better as I used to play snooker in Reardons on Saturdays so meant I could get dropped right outside the club which used to be just across from Argos.
From my earliest memory of using the 37 right up until around 2003/4 this service was almost exclusively operated by Ailsas (although you would get the odd, MB, LO or AH on occasion).
After the Ailsas where withdrawn the service was mostly operated by low height LO's, VO Royals and a variety of 2nd/3rd hand, non native deckers from down south and it remained this way up until the service was merged with the 31 and eventually withdrawn.
I really miss the northbound section of the 37/31. especially as they never really replaced it with anything.
Nowadays the only option is an 87/88/89 to BBS, then walk to the bottom end of the town which isn't ideal and totally useless for anything the other side of the clyde.
It was also really inconvenient for us as my grandad got moved into a care home over Cathcart Road way around a year before the service (31 by then) got axed north of Osborne Street. For the first year it was brilliant for convenience but once the service was withdrawn we had to switch to taxis.
The 37 is still fondly remembered and sadly missed around the Springburn area as I still often hear the locals reminiscing about it at the bus stop.
Growing up as a child in the 90's/early 00's in Springburn that was always our bus of choice into town. When I was little my parents used to take me to Glasgow Green at the weekends so the 37 was ideal as it stopped just around the corner from the house and dropped you off right next to the green.
At some point in the late 90's the route was altered to go via Trongate and Stockwell Street but by that stage that route actually suited me better as I used to play snooker in Reardons on Saturdays so meant I could get dropped right outside the club which used to be just across from Argos.
From my earliest memory of using the 37 right up until around 2003/4 this service was almost exclusively operated by Ailsas (although you would get the odd, MB, LO or AH on occasion).
After the Ailsas where withdrawn the service was mostly operated by low height LO's, VO Royals and a variety of 2nd/3rd hand, non native deckers from down south and it remained this way up until the service was merged with the 31 and eventually withdrawn.
I really miss the northbound section of the 37/31. especially as they never really replaced it with anything.
Nowadays the only option is an 87/88/89 to BBS, then walk to the bottom end of the town which isn't ideal and totally useless for anything the other side of the clyde.
It was also really inconvenient for us as my grandad got moved into a care home over Cathcart Road way around a year before the service (31 by then) got axed north of Osborne Street. For the first year it was brilliant for convenience but once the service was withdrawn we had to switch to taxis.
The 37 is still fondly remembered and sadly missed around the Springburn area as I still often hear the locals reminiscing about it at the bus stop.
Brimfulofasha
Member
Since we're reminiscing, I miss the old '16' - Auchinairn (Woodhill) to Blairdardie. When I was growing up (also late 90s/early 00s), we had 3 Woodhill buses: 12 (Rutherglen), 16 (Blairdardie) and 45 (Kennishead). All 3 terminated at the Woodhill terminus near to my school, and all were much more frequent than today, so the buses were often queuing onto the road. Having designed a bus seat cover fabric design as an art project, somewhat embarrassingly, my (young attractive female) art teacher marched me there to have it photographed on a bus. I didn't expect that to be allowed but they were only too happy to oblige!
The 16 was great as it proceeded west along Bath Street, and to Kelvingrove etc. The other 2 went onto the South Side, which I never had reason to go. At some point, the 16 became the 56 and also went south, meaning to go anywhere other than south meant changing in town. I always thought that didn't make sense. So we had 12/56/45. Simplicity meant we lost the 12 (became 57A and terminated at Balornock East), 56 changed to the 57 and 45 to the 10. The 45/10 did go through Sighthill, and continued to do so after the high rises were demolished despite no-one living there so it was a dead-run section for years. By the time it was re-routed to join the 88/89, new houses were nearly finished, which are now unserved. I wonder whether that part of the route will be reinstated once the regeneration is complete.
The 10 was my bus for a long time, I got it outside Buchanan Bus Station (BBS), cue constant confusion for some passengers as the First Scotland East (FSE) 10 also past that bus stop (possibly that's why it changed to the B10 and now the X10, I know we can't discuss FSE here but that has to be a contender for 'an X that's not an X' bus!) Don't know how many times I tried to explain to people that it drove past as it was 'a different 10'! And then it changed to the 87 and terminated at BBS. That was bad for me, as the 10 had dropped me off at St Vincent Street, ever since I've walked from BBS. At the time, it was stated folk can easily change to the 9/A but most wouldn't bother, it's just not as convenient. Another inexplicable decision! It also, until lockdown, seemed to get a mix of every bus model going, frequently the oldest in the fleet. Obviously now we regularly get surplus 38/75 E400s.
Now that Aviva at Westerhill is closing, I highly suspect any future cuts post-COVID funding will mean the 57 will terminate early at Balornock East, leaving the 87 as the sole remaining bus service for Woodhill, with Northgate Road, Balornock also losing its service. It's a shame, as there's been a downward trend in bus demand, and consequently service levels, for decades now. When I was at uni, I could stand on Cathedral Street at rush hour whilst multiple full 12/56s past me, frustrating at the time, but I didn't know how lucky I was! I even had an hourly night service (N12) which served me well for late nights with uni friends. It (then N57) reduced to weekends, then disappeared altogether. I don't have any solutions, I guess the main problem is lack of demand, which will only be exacerbated by COVID-19. There will just have to be a more stream-lined efficient network, where ultimately those further from arterial routes will lose out.
The 16 was great as it proceeded west along Bath Street, and to Kelvingrove etc. The other 2 went onto the South Side, which I never had reason to go. At some point, the 16 became the 56 and also went south, meaning to go anywhere other than south meant changing in town. I always thought that didn't make sense. So we had 12/56/45. Simplicity meant we lost the 12 (became 57A and terminated at Balornock East), 56 changed to the 57 and 45 to the 10. The 45/10 did go through Sighthill, and continued to do so after the high rises were demolished despite no-one living there so it was a dead-run section for years. By the time it was re-routed to join the 88/89, new houses were nearly finished, which are now unserved. I wonder whether that part of the route will be reinstated once the regeneration is complete.
The 10 was my bus for a long time, I got it outside Buchanan Bus Station (BBS), cue constant confusion for some passengers as the First Scotland East (FSE) 10 also past that bus stop (possibly that's why it changed to the B10 and now the X10, I know we can't discuss FSE here but that has to be a contender for 'an X that's not an X' bus!) Don't know how many times I tried to explain to people that it drove past as it was 'a different 10'! And then it changed to the 87 and terminated at BBS. That was bad for me, as the 10 had dropped me off at St Vincent Street, ever since I've walked from BBS. At the time, it was stated folk can easily change to the 9/A but most wouldn't bother, it's just not as convenient. Another inexplicable decision! It also, until lockdown, seemed to get a mix of every bus model going, frequently the oldest in the fleet. Obviously now we regularly get surplus 38/75 E400s.
Now that Aviva at Westerhill is closing, I highly suspect any future cuts post-COVID funding will mean the 57 will terminate early at Balornock East, leaving the 87 as the sole remaining bus service for Woodhill, with Northgate Road, Balornock also losing its service. It's a shame, as there's been a downward trend in bus demand, and consequently service levels, for decades now. When I was at uni, I could stand on Cathedral Street at rush hour whilst multiple full 12/56s past me, frustrating at the time, but I didn't know how lucky I was! I even had an hourly night service (N12) which served me well for late nights with uni friends. It (then N57) reduced to weekends, then disappeared altogether. I don't have any solutions, I guess the main problem is lack of demand, which will only be exacerbated by COVID-19. There will just have to be a more stream-lined efficient network, where ultimately those further from arterial routes will lose out.
duffers2324
Member
Can definitely concur with the thoughts about the 37/31 from Milton, where i am back to residing, the only thing i found rather annoying about when they took that bus off was it went the direct route into Springburn, up Ashgil Road into Colston but then turning right to go up past what is now the Farmfoods and then right onto Balgrayhill Road straight into Springburn, as opposed to what the M3 does now and into the hospital and into Balornock before coming into Springburn,
The 12/56 were always good buses into Auchinairn, i also remember they extended the 12 to the Robroyston Asda at one point but it probably lasted no more than 6 months,
The 11 is 1 of the services i had always said seemed relatively well used and it was one of the only sort of North East of the city to the West services that ran and i have often tried to look at it from this sort of perspective as well, so for around my area for eg the
75 is north to south of the city
M3 is north to a bit of the north east and then into the city proper
128 Again North into the City
So there is very little variation, you cant say get a service that would take you from the North of the city to say the West or to the east
I remember at a time when Milton had 4 Buses
53 Milton-Hillington which gave you a North to the west of the city connection
23 Milton-Pollok Centre or Govan? so again you have a North to South-South west connection
37 Milton-Castlemilk Which gave a North to North East and then South connection
48 High Possil(Milton)-Darnley whiich again gave similar to the 23 a North to South West sort of connection
So you can see the comparison i am trying to make here, there will be other places in the city were there will be less connections can be made than before and some which may have more but this is just a little bit of a highlight to show where some of the cuts have caused a hit as it where in connectivity, and this is where i feel First could try some new ideas for eg routes from North to the East or to the west for Eg something like Milton-Knightswood or say Milton-Easterhouse something like that
Again im obviously mainly speaking for my own area in regards to this
The 12/56 were always good buses into Auchinairn, i also remember they extended the 12 to the Robroyston Asda at one point but it probably lasted no more than 6 months,
The 11 is 1 of the services i had always said seemed relatively well used and it was one of the only sort of North East of the city to the West services that ran and i have often tried to look at it from this sort of perspective as well, so for around my area for eg the
75 is north to south of the city
M3 is north to a bit of the north east and then into the city proper
128 Again North into the City
So there is very little variation, you cant say get a service that would take you from the North of the city to say the West or to the east
I remember at a time when Milton had 4 Buses
53 Milton-Hillington which gave you a North to the west of the city connection
23 Milton-Pollok Centre or Govan? so again you have a North to South-South west connection
37 Milton-Castlemilk Which gave a North to North East and then South connection
48 High Possil(Milton)-Darnley whiich again gave similar to the 23 a North to South West sort of connection
So you can see the comparison i am trying to make here, there will be other places in the city were there will be less connections can be made than before and some which may have more but this is just a little bit of a highlight to show where some of the cuts have caused a hit as it where in connectivity, and this is where i feel First could try some new ideas for eg routes from North to the East or to the west for Eg something like Milton-Knightswood or say Milton-Easterhouse something like that
Again im obviously mainly speaking for my own area in regards to this
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I think a lack of options has played a fair part in people moving away from buses to be honest on top of reliability issues. If all of the buses in an area virtually go the same route I.e Bishopbriggs to the city centre then it's far easier to be put off.
First can make creative ideas work so post-pandemic would be the perfect time to show us that again and give people in different areas a wider range of destinations to go to.
Always think that routes with multiple services should have options to go to each direction away from the City Centre. The west end of Glasgow is pretty good for it.
8 and 90 to the north although not via city centre, 2 to the east, 3 to southside and the 4 and 6 to other parts of the south side with the 77 covering into Buchanan Bus Station. All that's missing really is something further east of the Royal Infirmary.
First can make creative ideas work so post-pandemic would be the perfect time to show us that again and give people in different areas a wider range of destinations to go to.
Always think that routes with multiple services should have options to go to each direction away from the City Centre. The west end of Glasgow is pretty good for it.
8 and 90 to the north although not via city centre, 2 to the east, 3 to southside and the 4 and 6 to other parts of the south side with the 77 covering into Buchanan Bus Station. All that's missing really is something further east of the Royal Infirmary.
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I have a very old Strathclyde's Buses timetable from nineteen canteen somewhere deep in my loft for the 37.
I can't remember off the top off my head, but it was very regular back in the day, right from first thing in the morning to last thing at night.
it slowly got run down when First started to concentrate on the money routes.
Was handy for the High Court if you lived in Castlemilk and Milton!
Brimfulofasha
Member
There's people in my work who would not countenance getting on a bus. For example, I got the 87 from Woodhill into town throughout the lockdown due to our car being off the road. The 87 goes through Springburn. Another guy in my work lives in Springburn but uses the train and got all his shifts changed due to service reductions. He didn't have to do early starts or late finishes. Yet I attended all my shifts fine, and live further away than him!
tbtc
Veteran Member
Some very interesting memories above - whilst there have been service cuts in most parts of Glasgow in the twenty two years since the Overground, it does feel like the A803/Springburn corridors have suffered more than most.
Part of it will be due to the thousands of passengers "lost" when the Red Row flats came down (and the movement of some of the Kirkentilloch services to the M80), I appreciate, but it's not just that - e.g. the 87 not going beyond Buchanan Bus Station means that it doesn't offer much over the Springburn - Queen Street trains (whereas some Glasgow suburbs have a bus that penetrates the city centre or provides cross-city links to entice some commuters/shoppers away from the train)
Combine that with the halved frequency along Royston Road (now there's no 11 or 19A) and the significant reductions along Cumbernauld Road compared to when the 36 ran every fifteen minutes all the way through to Cumbernauld and it does feel a bit neglected in the north by north-east area of the city. There's not even a service from The Fort towards Springburn and the A803 etc
Part of it will be due to the thousands of passengers "lost" when the Red Row flats came down (and the movement of some of the Kirkentilloch services to the M80), I appreciate, but it's not just that - e.g. the 87 not going beyond Buchanan Bus Station means that it doesn't offer much over the Springburn - Queen Street trains (whereas some Glasgow suburbs have a bus that penetrates the city centre or provides cross-city links to entice some commuters/shoppers away from the train)
Combine that with the halved frequency along Royston Road (now there's no 11 or 19A) and the significant reductions along Cumbernauld Road compared to when the 36 ran every fifteen minutes all the way through to Cumbernauld and it does feel a bit neglected in the north by north-east area of the city. There's not even a service from The Fort towards Springburn and the A803 etc
Always wondered if you could make a service from Strathkelvin Retail Park to Glasgow Fort work. Don't know what route you could make it take though. Could even be a combination of the 89 and 19 but then that's still a long way to go into the City Centre to Buchanan Bus Station at the very least and then go onto Cathedral Street, Castle Street and onto Royston Road so the City Centre link is still there plus it would also mean people having to walk up to get the bus at Buchanan Bus Station or Cathedral Street which isn't ideal for those who aren't as mobile and that's something that always needs to be considered hence the problem with having multiple routes go to the exact same parts of the City Centre from the same place.
Brimfulofasha
Member
The photo below was taken on 12th July 2008 at a northbound bus stop on the A803 Springburn Road, most likely opposite Petershill Road. It shows the timetable at the stop. Of the 12 First services shown (including the 31/37 mentioned above, but excluding the 90 and the 12/56 which turn right just before that stop), only 3 remain: the 88, 85/A (now 89) and 45 (now 87).
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Pretty interesting that the 88 is practically the same except the letter variants at night are now a thing to cover once the 89 goes off
Voyager lad
Member
I must say on a personal level this was really interesting to look at, and it’s a shame services such as the X84 to Twechar don’t exist anymore. I’ve always thought there really should be more local services on the A803/ Springburn - Bishopbriggs - Kirkintilloch corridor rather than just the expresses from Kirkintilloch into Glasgow. It would be great to see the likes of the 84 run by first again and extended through to Glasgow, and an all day service from Lennoxtown - Torrance - Glasgow rather than the current once a day service.
It would be interesting to see if a service that went Lennoxtown-Torrance-Bishopbriggs-Springburn-Glasgow would be quicker than the current X85 into Glasgow. It's a pretty quick corridor to operate as it avoids having to operate through Kirkintilloch town centre and Lenzie just to get onto the M80.
Problem would be demand imo since Torrance is tiny and Lennoxtown has plenty of cars from what I've seen of it so it would probably need to replace the X85 rather than run with it. Same if you wanted to do a local equivalent for the X87 too.
The other problem would also be that less buses through Lenzie may see people switch to the train if you're not careful so you'd probably need to keep some X85 runs in unless you increased the X87 frequency while getting rid of the X85 but then you'd need a short route service between Lennoxtown and Kirkintilloch to keep that link in tact.
Overall, I don't think it's worth changing as there's a lot of hassle that comes with it.
However, as for the 87. I do think the 10 being Silverburn to Auchinairn again could work. The big problem I always found with the old route was not having a split to recover any lost time on the route and now with the 10/57 split at Silverburn that issue is pretty much solved.
Problem would be demand imo since Torrance is tiny and Lennoxtown has plenty of cars from what I've seen of it so it would probably need to replace the X85 rather than run with it. Same if you wanted to do a local equivalent for the X87 too.
The other problem would also be that less buses through Lenzie may see people switch to the train if you're not careful so you'd probably need to keep some X85 runs in unless you increased the X87 frequency while getting rid of the X85 but then you'd need a short route service between Lennoxtown and Kirkintilloch to keep that link in tact.
Overall, I don't think it's worth changing as there's a lot of hassle that comes with it.
However, as for the 87. I do think the 10 being Silverburn to Auchinairn again could work. The big problem I always found with the old route was not having a split to recover any lost time on the route and now with the 10/57 split at Silverburn that issue is pretty much solved.
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adrock1976
Established Member
Regarding the former routes in Springburn, back in 2002 the 16 was switched to run Blairdardie - Gardenhall (or Lindsayfield) every 15 minutes which combined with the 18 (also every 15 minutes), this gave a frequency of every 7-8 minutes between the Western Infirmary and Greenhills shopping centre. The 56 was extended from the city centre to Woodhill to replace that section of the 16.
When the 56 arrived just before Pollok Centre via Paisley Road West, it then changed to the 57 to continue to Charing Cross via Darnley, Nitshill, Arden, Thornliebank Station, and Pollokshaws Road. The 57 from Charing Cross via Pollokshaws Road would change to the 56 just after passing Thornliebank Station and would continue to Woodhill via Arden, Nitshill, Darnley, Pollok Centre, Paisley Road West, Central and Queen Street stations, Royal Infirmary, Petershill Road, and Wallacewell Road.
As mentioned in above posts, the 12 and the 45 remained unchanged until Simplicity in 2013. Also regarding the Bishopbriggs and Kirkintilloch corridor, not long after the Overground concept McKindless introduced (or re-introduced according to their promotional flyer with the words "It's Back") the 80 between the bus station and Harestanes. This followed the same route as the 88 to Bishopbriggs retail park, but then went direct to Kirkintilloch along the A803 whereas the 88 went the dog leg route via Low Moss nick and Gallowhill Road. The 80 only lasted until the mid Noughties.
When the 56 arrived just before Pollok Centre via Paisley Road West, it then changed to the 57 to continue to Charing Cross via Darnley, Nitshill, Arden, Thornliebank Station, and Pollokshaws Road. The 57 from Charing Cross via Pollokshaws Road would change to the 56 just after passing Thornliebank Station and would continue to Woodhill via Arden, Nitshill, Darnley, Pollok Centre, Paisley Road West, Central and Queen Street stations, Royal Infirmary, Petershill Road, and Wallacewell Road.
As mentioned in above posts, the 12 and the 45 remained unchanged until Simplicity in 2013. Also regarding the Bishopbriggs and Kirkintilloch corridor, not long after the Overground concept McKindless introduced (or re-introduced according to their promotional flyer with the words "It's Back") the 80 between the bus station and Harestanes. This followed the same route as the 88 to Bishopbriggs retail park, but then went direct to Kirkintilloch along the A803 whereas the 88 went the dog leg route via Low Moss nick and Gallowhill Road. The 80 only lasted until the mid Noughties.
Didn't the 16 come back for a bit in late 2010? I didn't realise the 16 stopped going to Springburn that late on.
The demise of the 16 is certainly an interesting one. Certainly wasn't a service I ever used back then but always seemed fairly busy when I seen it west of the city centre. Nowadays with the 16 in its current form I'd be amazed if it lasted long term. Handy for Anniesland to Partick compared to the M4 but Crow Road traffic could kill the reliability of anything anywhere near it. Not surprised that the demise of it seems to be present now even compared to when it went to Drumchapel
The M11 is useless, the original 11 is no longer around, at least renumber it to I don’t know, the M6, and speaking of routes, the 42 should come back, the 42 was a great route, but then when the 1c arrived it moved to a crappy route from Garscadden to Partick. What a waste of the route.
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The 42 has come back, in the form of the Avondale 400. From Drumchapel to Partick. Doesn't run in the evening though. As many others there is no market for it.
Um, the 42 was Drumchapel to Baldernock (I think that’s how you spell it) and the 400 has existed before then.
Baldernock is a small settlement to the east of Milngavie, I looked up as you mentioned it before !
I think you meant Barlanark, I think one of the 38S replaced the route.
JumpinTrainz
Established Member
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- 1,669
The 42/42A used to run from Barlanark to Antonine Park and Drumchapel I believe. The 38B partially replaced the east end section.
Whilst the Clydebank to Antonine Park is covered by a tendered SPT service 184.
Even when the 42 became Garscadden to Partick it was still pretty busy. I used it quite a lot and it was never really quiet. Just like a lot of services began to suffer from bad reliability. Don't think it needed to be every 15 mins though. Every 20/30 could have probably done enough. It was well used for the schools near me too