First Greater Glasgow

[92002]

I don’t think the 1, 2 or 3 will see any new buses given the E300s have all just been branded up. It would be nice for the 2 to see some deckers branded up alongside the E300s.

The 60/61 could possibly see new stock but I think the 7/7A will see new singles and possibly the 10, 57 and kirky routes see E400EVs.

It's all about rewarding the passengers on their busiest routes with the new stock. Then moving the existing vehicles down the food chain.

So probably these are the most busy candidates.

 

[Jordan Adam]

It's all about rewarding the passengers on their busiest routes with the new stock. Then moving the existing vehicles down the food chain.

Not always, operators will often allocation new vehicles to lesser used routes if they see growth potential.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

It's all about rewarding the passengers on their busiest routes with the new stock. Then moving the existing vehicles down the food chain.

So probably these are the most busy candidates.

I would agree. The 1, 2 and 3 should be candidates for new buses. Seeing some new buses on the 60/60A and 61 would also be nice as they are all busy routes.

I just can’t see them branding all these buses and having to debrand them all again. You are talking hundreds of buses in that case.

 

[92002]

I would agree. The 1, 2 and 3 should be candidates for new buses. Seeing some new buses on the 60/60A and 61 would also be nice as they are all busy routes.

I just can’t see them branding all these buses and having to debrand them all again. You are talking hundreds of buses in that case.

Don't think route branding is probably a good investment. Given the current numbers working off branding. 3s on 2s are a perfect example noticed the other day.

 

[adrock1976]

The first Scania Single Decks to operate in Glasgow were the 2 N113s/Plaxton Verdes which most of the time operated on the 66 or private hires. They were demonstrators at first having been sourced following the Larkfield Depot fire almost 30 years ago then were purchased outright shortly afterwards but I thought the 5 DAF Ikarus hired at the same time were better. Then 3 K93s/East Lancs (I may be mistaken) were brought in on private plates and traded as SB Travel for hires but ended up at Cumbernauld a few years later.

After First had acquired SB Holdings, the 61 became the first route go all low-floor with red Volvo B10L/Wright Liberator and Scania L113 Wright/Axcess but soon after it was fully barbie operated. The 12, 40, 45, 62, 75 and the short lived X77 were also amongst some of the first routes to operated with Barbie Scanias. The L113s were good motors despite their flimsy Wright bodywork and they could shift when you put the foot down. The Scania L94 wasn't a patch on the L113 as they were more prone to faults and they weren't pleasant to drive. But of the all buses purchased during that era I found the Volvo B10BLE to be the best.


The 54 was replaced by the 7 on the northside and the 9A in the southside in 2013.

Back in the days of the garage at Possilpark, I recall that the double deckers were the Volvo Ailsas (mainly seen on the then 89/90 Inner Circle, and possibly the former 23 Govan via Shawlands on the roller blind), and the red Scanias that were mainly seen on the 18 and 54, plus the Kirkintilloch 175 (Campsie Glen). The red Scania double decks had a green dot matrix destination screen, and had grey plastic seats towards the rear half/third of the top deck. Also, Knightswood had those as I regularly saw those on the 16 when it used to run to Auchinairn.

When Possilpark closed in 2000, I remember the 89/90 Inner Circle was mainly operated with the Volvo Citybus double deckers, as I think both Parkhead and Knightswood had those. At some point in 2002, the 89/90 was mainly operated by the Optare Solo midibuses.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Don't think route branding is probably a good investment. Given the current numbers working off branding. 3s on 2s are a perfect example noticed the other day.

I personally don’t think it works in a big city like Glasgow.

It’s somewhat come at a bad time with the pandemic and buses being moved to help with social distancing etc but it’s hard to confine buses to just one route.

It would be easier to just have all the buses in a standard uniform livery imo. The local livery is an interesting concept but I don’t feel it works very well.

An example is route 2 (formerly 62) could be doing with a mix of singles and deckers like worked before with the Royales and Scania’s back in the day. It was the same with the B7TLs and B7RLEs. Having all singles just doesn’t work.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not always, operators will often allocation new vehicles to lesser used routes if they see growth potential.

I can happen but in practice, and certainly with First in recent times, they have tended to put new vehicles on the most lucrative routes.

There are always exceptions but usually, it's bang for buck.

 

[PaulMc7]

The X4 and 6 see a lot of buses from the 2 and 3 but more so at the weekend than midweek of late. I've seen at least one 38 bus on a 60/60A most times I've been out in the last couple of months.

There also seems to be newer singles and older double deckers popping up on the 7/7A too.

I'm not the biggest fan of branding personally but it's not the worst looking branding here.

 

[route101]

Not always, operators will often allocation new vehicles to lesser used routes if they see growth potential.

65 and M3 are one of the few routes like that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2021 ==

The X4 and 6 see a lot of buses from the 2 and 3 but more so at the weekend than midweek of late. I've seen at least one 38 bus on a 60/60A most times I've been out in the last couple of months.

There also seems to be newer singles and older double deckers popping up on the 7/7A too.

I'm not the biggest fan of branding personally but it's not the worst looking branding here.

Yeah, the E300s on the 6 are 2 and 3 branded. More eclipses on the 6 now.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I could be wrong but when I passed the ADL factory in Falkirk yesterday I noticed what looked like an E200EV with First interior which was white all over. Is this possibly one of the new buses for Glasgow?

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

I could be wrong but when I passed the ADL factory in Falkirk yesterday I noticed what looked like an E200EV with First interior which was white all over. Is this possibly one of the new buses for Glasgow?

They're ment to be for the 9 and in service just before the COP26 conference so possibly. ADL don't half power through building loads of buses.

 

[Strathclyder]

I can happen but in practice, and certainly with First in recent times, they have tended to put new vehicles on the most lucrative routes.

There are always exceptions but usually, it's bang for buck.

Indeed, The One Group, 2, 3, 18, 34/A, The 38 Group, 75, 240 & 267 being the prime examples in the last decade or so (2009 to now) as far as First Glasgow are concerned. The most notable outlier in this regard, at least on the surface, was the 65 getting those 4 branded E200MMCs (44675-678) in the 2018/19 order. But that route seems to do fairly well for itself (at least from personal observations).

 

[PaulMc7]

Indeed, The One Group, 2, 3, 18, 34/A, The 38 Group, 75, 240 & 267 being the prime examples in the last decade or so (2009 to now) as far as First Glasgow are concerned. The most notable outlier in this regard, at least on the surface, was the 65 getting those 4 branded E200MMCs (44675-678) in the 2018/19 order. But that route seems to do fairly well for itself (at least from personal observations).

I've seen the 65 a lot since it's had the new buses and I'm surprised the frequency hasn't ever increased from every 30 mins. It can be very busy at times even off peak especially around Rutherglen and Fernhill.

 

[Strathclyder]

I've seen the 65 a lot since it's had the new buses and I'm surprised the frequency hasn't ever increased from every 30 mins. It can be very busy at times even off peak especially around Rutherglen and Fernhill.

Funny that we're discussing the 65, in that I copped a B7 Gemini on it this Saturday past (need to dig the image out). Perhaps putting at least one decker on it Mon-Sat daytime may help with the capacity issues. Thinking aloud here, but it would be a ideal place for the last Tridents and the 5 remaining President B7s to see out their autumn period in service before giving way to the 54-reg Geminis.

 

[Busman84]

It’s hard to believe that the 40, 61, 62 and 54 at one stage received so much new stock. From R and S plate L113s to L94s then B10LAs. By 2001/2002 they had new buses again in the form of B10BLEs and B7Ls.

The 61 has received refurbished B9TLs now and hasn’t seen new stock for a while. The 2s newest stock was back in 2013 for a route which used to see new buses every few years. The 60 tends to get anything that is going.

Back in the early days when First came into Glasgow they appeared to keep giving Parkhead depot new buses. This kept going up until 2002. Back then Parkhead, for its size, was most profitable so it always saw most of the new orders. The 54 had step entrance vehicles when Possil and ran it, and then Knightswood ran it once Possil closed.

By early 2002 the 54 went to Parkhead and interworked with the 61. It saw an increase in frequency and received new Volvo B10BLE/B7Ls, but only because it interworked with the 61. Again in 2006 Parkhead got nearly 70 B7RLEs, again for the 40,54/61,62. A few years later, and with a new managing director things changed at Parkhead from new single deckers to a fleet of ex-London and native B7TLs. So many routes went double deck and this wasn’t a bad thing, but the average age of the depot's fleet increased big time. The 61 by 2012 was to get new Enviro 400s but yet another MD scrapped those plans and the E400s either went to Bolton, Wigan or West Yorkshire and E300s were ordered instead which has caused capacity issues over the years. First used to concentrate with depots but over the last 10 years or so have appeared to concentrate on routes these days.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

Was Parkhead not one of the depots that was part of the contract hire deal with Volvo around that time?

 

[Busman84]

Yes Volvo were to take over and the depot was only to be B10BLE/B7L and Volvo Citybus. But Volvo and First didn’t agree on pensions so it fell through in 2002. That year the 89/90 went over minibus operation with brand new Optare Solos. The same year saw the 18 go there and LOs went with it, then the Tri axle ex Singapore LT Olympians arrived, originally for the 18, but ended up on any route.

Parkhead then saw its fair share of junk including old ex Manchester Olympians a year or so later. It wasn’t until 2006 it saw a major influence with the B7RLEs coming in. This saw the 40,54/61,62 with new buses but only lasted few years, then ex London Tridents came in - originally the W-reg ALX400s then 2 years later loads of Presidents. The E500s were originally bound for Parkhead for the 62. First made it into the press saying that the 62 would see air con buses. Larkfield received these unexpected as well. I don’t know if the issue for them not going on the 62 was Parkhead having no adblue (although easy to put into a depot), or the Bailleston loop with its traffic calming and speedhumps.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

Yes Volvo were to take over and the depot was only to be B10BLE/B7L and Volvo Citybus. But Volvo and First didn’t agree on pensions so it fell through in 2002. That year the 89/90 went over minibus operation with brand new Optare Solos. The same year saw the 18 go there and LOs went with it, then the Tri axle ex Singapore LT Olympians arrived, originally for the 18, but ended up on any route.

Parkhead then saw its fair share of junk including old ex Manchester Olympians a year or so later. It wasn’t until 2006 it saw a major influence with the B7RLEs coming in. This saw the 40,54/61,62 with new buses but only lasted few years, then ex London Tridents came in - originally the W-reg ALX400s then 2 years later loads of Presidents. The E500s were originally bound for Parkhead for the 62. First made it into the press saying that the 62 would see air con buses. Larkfield received these unexpected as well. I don’t know if the issue for them not going on the 62 was Parkhead having no adblue (although easy to put into a depot), or the Bailleston loop with its traffic calming and speedhumps.

Thanks for that.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

First completely ruined Parkhead depot after flooding it with ex-London Tridents. Parkhead got the older, smellier batch. The T and V plates were the worst. I remember hating that time in travel.

I grew up in the east end so I remember the days of B10LAs, L113s, L94s and routes like the 61 & 62 receiving new stock every 4 years or so. The E500s would have been a nice addition to Parkhead as by 2009 the depot was dire. The 61 losing out on new E400s was also unfortunate. By that point they were only upgrading individual routes instead of depots like they had did in the past. The 61 still hasn’t received any new stock in recent years it has refurbished B9TLs.

Hopefully with new E200EVs and E400EVs some of the east end routes like the 60/61 will be upgraded. It would have been nice for the 2 to see some new stock too given how busy it is but it’ll only be Caledonia routes.

 

[Busman84]

Yes from 2009 reliability of Parkhead's fleet took a tumble too with the older Tridents constantly breaking down and not being up for the job. Many of these were not refurbished either and had retained double doors for some time. Routes such as the 40 and 61 went from nearly new B7RLEs to seeing old Tridents. The 54 plate Geminis did help a bit but these were not used on the one route and instead just got allocated along with Tridents on the 40, 61 and 62. The plan was that Parkhead was to lose all its B7RLEs and see even more Tridents and Geminis from other parts of the Group but it didn’t happen. Larkfield also got a fair number of Tridents as well as Cumbernauld and Blantyre.

 

[Strathclyder]

Yes Volvo were to take over and the depot was only to be B10BLE/B7L and Volvo Citybus. But Volvo and First didn’t agree on pensions so it fell through in 2002. That year the 89/90 went over minibus operation with brand new Optare Solos. The same year saw the 18 go there and LOs went with it, then the Tri axle ex Singapore LT Olympians arrived, originally for the 18, but ended up on any route.

Parkhead then saw its fair share of junk including old ex Manchester Olympians a year or so later. It wasn’t until 2006 it saw a major influence with the B7RLEs coming in. This saw the 40,54/61,62 with new buses but only lasted few years, then ex London Tridents came in - originally the W-reg ALX400s then 2 years later loads of Presidents. The E500s were originally bound for Parkhead for the 62. First made it into the press saying that the 62 would see air con buses. Larkfield received these unexpected as well. I don’t know if the issue for them not going on the 62 was Parkhead having no adblue (although easy to put into a depot), or the Bailleston loop with its traffic calming and speedhumps.

A minor, if rather admittedly pedantic correction: the tri-axle 'LT-class' Olympians that arrived in the early 2000s were ex-Hong Kong (specifically, ex-China Motor Bus & New World First Bus), not ex-Singapore. There was a ex-Singapore Olympian that arrived at the same time (all the vehicles in question had been transferred north from Manchester) - K174 EUX - but this was a twin-axle vehicle with a early Royale-style body (the LTs were R-Types) and was a early Volvo example (new June 1994; the LTs were late Leylands new in December 1993).

As for Parkhead getting lumbered with ex-London Tridents, things did somewhat improve with the later Presidents that arrived (which had been refurbished and converted to single-door prior to entering service here) and particularly with the arrival of the large number of the 53-reg ALX400 batch (the best Tridents Glasgow ever recieved, not that the competition was particularly stiff all things considered); used to be a treat when one appeared on my local route (the 62, now the 2). I tend to have a soft spot for the Tridents that arrived, having grown up with them and having done a good number of miles on them over the years with very few times where one 'sat down' on me (perhaps that was just luck on my part lol). But yeah, overall, quality did slip noticeably before the arrival of the E300s from late 2012 through to the end of 2013 (at the expense of overall capacity with the E400s mentioned above being diverted elsewhere, but that's another kettle of fish).

I doubt the real reason the E500s never appeared on the 62 as originally planned will ever be known for sure, although plenty of theories have sprung up! In the absence of a verified reason, we can only speculate on whether it was simply a change in direction at the highest level, deciding the 44/44A (then later the 75) was a better fit for them (with or without taking the headache that was the Baillieston loop into account; that latter one didn't stop a Nordic from very rarely slipping onto the 62 on occasion when Parkhead had a handful of them for a time. See attached image below*. The aforementioned LT Olympians were also semi-regulars on it during their time here) or anything of the sort. Was a shame all things considered, but meh. All purely academic now lol

*: Image copyright remains with A.W Shirley of GCSBromleygarage.com.

 

[Whiteway215]

Did any of the London Tridents still retain their centre doors when they were in service in Glasgow?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

A minor, if rather admittedly pedantic correction: the tri-axle 'LT-class' Olympians that arrived in the early 2000s were ex-Hong Kong (specifically, ex-China Motor Bus & New World First Bus), not ex-Singapore. There was a ex-Singapore Olympian that arrived at the same time (all the vehicles in question had been transferred north from Manchester) - K174 EUX - but this was a twin-axle vehicle with a early Royale-style body (the LTs were R-Types) and was a early Volvo example (new June 1994; the LTs were late Leylands new in December 1993).

As for Parkhead getting lumbered with ex-London Tridents, things did somewhat improve with the later Presidents that arrived (which had been refurbished and converted to single-door prior to entering service here) and particularly with the arrival of the large number of the 53-reg ALX400 batch (the best Tridents Glasgow ever recieved, not that the competition was particularly stiff all things considered); used to be a treat when one appeared on my local route (the 62, now the 2). I tend to have a soft spot for the Tridents that arrived, having grown up with them and having done a good number of miles on them over the years with very few times where one 'sat down' on me (perhaps that was just luck on my part lol). But yeah, overall, quality did slip noticeably before the arrival of the E300s from late 2012 through to the end of 2013 (at the expense of overall capacity with the E400s mentioned above being diverted elsewhere, but that's another kettle of fish).

I doubt the real reason the E500s never appeared on the 62 as originally planned will ever be known for sure, although plenty of theories have sprung up! In the absence of a verified reason, we can only speculate on whether it was simply a change in direction at the highest level, deciding the 44/44A (then later the 75) was a better fit for them (with or without taking the headache that was the Baillieston loop into account; that latter one didn't stop a Nordic from very rarely slipping onto the 62 on occasion when Parkhead had a handful of them for a time. See attached image below*. The aforementioned LT Olympians were also semi-regulars on it during their time here) or anything of the sort. Was a shame all things considered, but meh. All purely academic now lol

*: Image copyright remains with A.W Shirley of GCSBromleygarage.com.

View attachment 100999

The 40, 61 and 62 also had the B10LAs/B7LAs at one point so they have accommodated many 'larger' buses. Perhaps in 2009 First had plans to close Parkhead and didn’t want to install any new equipment for the E500s there - sounds more plausible.

It would be nice to see some more investment in the 2 as it’s always been a busy route. It would be nice to see some E400MMCs branded up for the route alongside the E300s. The route would work well with a mixture of singles/deckers.

I really wasn’t a fan of any of the Tridents. I felt like they set the fleet back by a lot of years. Most had those really hard back seats which we had moved on from by that stage. I’m glad most of them will be gone with the next order.

 

[Strathclyder]

Did any of the London Tridents still retain their centre doors when they were in service in Glasgow?

Quite a few of the prefix reg examples did, but the vast majority had them removed as part of their prep for 'provincial' service, while others retained them after entering service here, either until getting them removed or being withdrawn/transferred with them still in situ in the very rare case (linked image from the haley111 Flickr collection).

First Glasgow 32833 (T833LLC)

These Plaxton bodied Tridents were the first Presidents to be cascaded from London back in 2005. Initially allocated to the 11 in order to upgrade the service to low floor, some even received branding for the service. Seen on its first day in service in Highburgh Road in the west end of Glasgow.

www.flickr.com

 

[GALLANTON]

Quite a few of the prefix reg examples did, but the vast majority had them removed as part of their prep for 'provincial' service, while others retained them after entering service here, either until getting them removed or being withdrawn with them still in situ in the very rare case (linked image from the haley111 Flickr collection).

First Glasgow 32833 (T833LLC)

These Plaxton bodied Tridents were the first Presidents to be cascaded from London back in 2005. Initially allocated to the 11 in order to upgrade the service to low floor, some even received branding for the service. Seen on its first day in service in Highburgh Road in the west end of Glasgow.

www.flickr.com

Some of FiGs in-house conversions were absolute bodge jobs.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Some of FiGs in-house conversions were absolute bodge jobs.

I recall some of them heading down to Bristol and Somerset. The Bristol ones were ALXs and were very scabby inside and the conversion was minimal with the bulkheads still remaining in situ.

The ones that went to Buses of Somerset were mainly Presidents and seem to recall that they were better, with tidier conversions and, in at least a couple of cases, having been refurbished with the later lilac speckled moquette - the one that faded really badly!

 

[Strathclyder]

I recall some of them heading down to Bristol and Somerset. The Bristol ones were ALXs and were very scabby inside and the conversion was minimal with the bulkheads still remaining in situ.

The ones that went to Buses of Somerset were mainly Presidents and seem to recall that they were better, with tidier conversions and, in at least a couple of cases, having been refurbished with the later lilac speckled moquette - the one that faded really badly!

Those particular ALXs were near enough life-expired by the time we (Glasgow) were done with them; it's a wonder they lasted any time at all down in Bristol/Somerset. A handful remained in Scotland (with Scotland East/Midland Bluebird) until final withdrawal. Not surprised about the minimal single-door conversion done on them either, the later 53-reg ones were/are (for the handful still in service here) much better in that regard, perhaps because they were converted elsewhere (Rotherham?) for use on the First Olympic Shuttles if I recall correctly before being dispatched to their new 'provincial' homes once the Games were over.

I know the moquette of which you speak, believe it (or one very similar to it) has been used to retrim older vehicles as of late (usually when going through the paintshop); going back a bit, notable buses in the Glasgow fleet getting such treatment would be most of the ex-Hutchison's stock, namely the L94UBs, B10BLEs and B7RLEs. Looks good when freshly done, but fades like no man's business as you say.

 

[route101]

First Glasgow services I've used in the last week have had healthy passenger loadings. Was down in Southampton last week and they appear to have an all Streetlite fleet. We have it good in Glasgow!

 

[PaulMc7]

First Glasgow services I've used in the last week have had healthy passenger loadings. Was down in Southampton last week and they appear to have an all Streetlite fleet. We have it good in Glasgow!

I've noticed how busy it's getting too here. I've been on a few buses that have been full too mainly between Glasgow City Centre and Parkhead. I'm hoping the app begins to work properly soon though. There was already issues with it before the changes and now it's got worse because the 2/3/X4 and 6 timetables all aren't updated properly so it's impossible to track anything Monday to Saturday

 

[mb88]

Does anyone know if there is a list online of which routes operate from which depot? Can't seem to find any information.