First Greater Glasgow

[PaulMc7]

Compared to issues at Silverburn the Fort is great for buses and the motorway access.
Silverburn is a nightmare with buses getting stuck at the roundabout and the confusion over what bus stops at what stand.

I've always found Silverburn to be the best of the shopping centres for buses getting in and out. The Fort causes tons of confusion for the buses too although I wouldn't say it's First fault as the timing boards for the first and third stops display the other stop's information so it's as if everything to Easterhouse is the first stop and not the third.

I feel that with Silverburn it's easier to remember where things stop once you use them once or twice.

The only thing with Silverburn is that the 3 is one of the most unreliable buses around and the 57 isn't far off and the route is so long winded too.

The key thing with Silverburn too is that the M77 has a junction that feeds into it coming from the south but it doesn't feed straight into the bus routes so it's less liable to cause an issue whereas the M8 one coming from the west feeds straight into the way the 60/60A come in and out of Glasgow Fort and considering they're horribly unreliable at the best of times it doesn't help at all.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Compared to issues at Silverburn the Fort is great for buses and the motorway access.
Silverburn is a nightmare with buses getting stuck at the roundabout and the confusion over what bus stops at what stand.

It happens at the fort as well, especially trying to exit glasgow fort, I’ve seen my fair share of drivers arguing with motorists at the fort.

motorist don’t heed the priority bus have pulling back out.

as for the 60s, after having travelled through Cowcaddens, the city centre, duke street, parkhead & shettleston, all heavily trafficked roads, you can hardly be surprised at buses being late.

 

[PaulMc7]

It happens at the fort as well, especially trying to exit glasgow fort, I’ve seen my fair share of drivers arguing with motorists at the fort.

motorist don’t heed the priority bus have pulling back out.

as for the 60s, after having travelled through Cowcaddens, the city centre, duke street, parkhead & shettleston, all heavily trafficked roads, you can hardly be surprised at buses being late.

If you get a 60/60A that even makes it to Cowcaddens on time from Clydebank/Milngavie you've done well and got lucky to be fair. I just feel personally that long routes especially those over 2 hours or close to 2 hours just don't work whatsoever in Glasgow.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

If you get a 60/60A that even makes it to Cowcaddens on time from Clydebank/Milngavie you've done well and got lucky to be fair. I just feel personally that long routes especially those over 2 hours or close to 2 hours just don't work whatsoever in Glasgow.

They would do if bus lanes were strictly governed.

the 60 coming out of Clydebank/Radnor Park/drumry etc aren't that busy, Maryhill ends up being the main gripe but from what I remember, the operation doesn’t have as much time as it could on many journeys & routes.

60A - the roads are probably busier at Milngavie/Bearsden, given that it’s mostly main roads.

Maryhill is slow at times.

it’s the east end that causes most of the issues.

when the 60 used to be the 40 they were every 10 minutes through drumchapel & a separate route operated to Milngavie.

it was more reliable then.

 

[PaulMc7]

They would do if bus lanes were strictly governed.

the 60 coming out of Clydebank/Radnor Park/drumry etc aren't that busy, Maryhill ends up being the main gripe but from what I remember, the operation doesn’t have as much time as it could on many journeys & routes.

60A - the roads are probably busier at Milngavie/Bearsden, given that it’s mostly main roads.

Maryhill is slow at times.

it’s the east end that causes most of the issues.

when the 60 used to be the 40 they were every 10 minutes through drumchapel & a separate route operated to Milngavie.

it was more reliable then.

Bearsden at the Asda and then the next set of lights up towards Hillfoot can be horrendous at times.

Today was the first time in years I've got a bus along Duke Street where the traffic wasn't actually much of an issue and that was on a 41.

I feel like they need to split the 60/60A somewhere. I feel like if it was even Parkhead it could help massively.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Bearsden at the Asda and then the next set of lights up towards Hillfoot can be horrendous at times.

Today was the first time in years I've got a bus along Duke Street where the traffic wasn't actually much of an issue and that was on a 41.

I feel like they need to split the 60/60A somewhere. I feel like if it was even Parkhead it could help massively.

Thing with the 60, again when it was previously the 40, never used to travel Duke Street to Gallowgate via Bellgrove Street, straight along duke street.

personally I’m under the idea that the 41 should simply be reconnected to the 6A again every 12 Minutes, duke street > Gallowgate > Hope St > Great Western Rd > onwards.
(There’s no way however that the full length 6(East Kilbride to Clydebank) needs to service Great Western Rd every 12 minute though)

Given that the current 41 only does Edinburgh Rd & carntyne, it doesn’t have to contend with Shettleston traffic.

60 - The Forge > Duke Street > George Square > Hope St > Maryhill

the 2 & 61 serve Gallowgate anyways to Glasgow cross.

Personally I’m not very keen on routes being cut in half, some 10-15 years ago when “the overground” was cut, litterally, everything was severed and reconnected elsewhere, additionally your potentially forcing some to by a day ticket instead of being able for them to buy a cheaper single straight through on a continuous route, you do find this on 60s, the likes The Forge to Maryhill etc

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Having lived in easterhouse and my mum living in Pollock at peat road round about I have had many more issues with traffic via silver but and have always thought that if buses could be ran round to the back near Tesco and come out that way it would avoid pretty much every bus having to deal with the peat roundabout twice

The 41 works because it's short

Part of the issue especially in the morning in Maryhill is that the x10 goes out of service every morning pretty much at cadder and that then forces more people on to the 60 or 61 behind it slowing them down as there absolutely rammed and sometimes have to miss stops due to being full (I have had this happen to me at least 9 or 10 times since mid December

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Having lived in easterhouse and my mum living in Pollock at peat road round about I have had many more issues with traffic via silver but and have always thought that if buses could be ran round to the back near Tesco and come out that way it would avoid pretty much every bus having to deal with the peat roundabout twice

The 41 works because it's short

Part of the issue especially in the morning in Maryhill is that the x10 goes out of service every morning pretty much at cadder and that then forces more people on to the 60 or 61 behind it slowing them down as there absolutely rammed and sometimes have to miss stops due to being full (I have had this happen to me at least 9 or 10 times since mid December

After all the 60/61 are the city routes & the x10 only once an hour, the x10 from Maryhill in should be limited stop.

The 41 was reliable, not much is now

the last time I drove many of these routes there wasn’t enough time on them..

unreliability being compounded simply because they no longer have the resources I.E. drivers

 

[LT02 NVV]

Former 75 branded vehicles off to Midland Bluebird. 1 on 1 replacements for the 22 Omnidekkas

First Midland Alexander Dennis Enviro 400 MMC 33202

First Midland Alexander Dennis Enviro 400 MMC Euro 6 (33202) ex First Glasgow Service 75 route branded looking smart after a repaint into the First Midland livery captured at Caledonia Depot it would be an offence for anyone to copy this photo , uploaded with permission from First Glasgow

flic.kr

Why don‘t they just send 33431-35 & 33439-42 back instead? After all, they where originally with First Midland Bluebird.

only 8 are going.

I hope so.

 

[Volvodart]

Why don‘t they just send 33431-35 & 33439-42 back instead? After all, they where originally with First Midland Bluebird.

Is the 41 getting electric buses too? If not, that would require double the repaints.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Why don‘t they just send 33431-35 & 33439-42 back instead? After all, they where originally with First Midland Bluebird.

Because these ones are two years newer and so it improves the age profile of the fleet and makes it more balanced? That and the issue of debranding more vehicles as @Volvodart mentioned.

 

[Scott mac]

Is the 41 getting electric buses too? If not, that would require double the repaints.

Not this time 75 38 61 and 77 are supposedly due the evs

 

[mb3]

Because these ones are two years newer and so it improves the age profile of the fleet and makes it more balanced? That and the issue of debranding more vehicles as @Volvodart mentioned.

Yes. Plus the 75 is now going to have the EV vehicles so it makes sense to send that batch of MMC’s to replace the Omnidekka’s. I do like them but they are getting old and are falling apart.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not this time 75 38 61 and 77 are supposedly due the evs

I suspect it was a rhetorical question from @Volvodart

Yes. Plus the 75 is now going to have the EV vehicles so it makes sense to send that batch of MMC’s to replace the Omnidekka’s. I do like them but they are getting old and are falling apart.

The Omnidekkas were fine machines...in their day. They are getting on a bit, are non-standard, and expensive to run and maintain. They are now approaching 17 years of age so getting on a bit.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Why don‘t they just send 33431-35 & 33439-42 back instead? After all, they where originally with First Midland Bluebird.

I hope first certainly don’t hope to take you on as fleet manager…

Not this time 75 38 61 and 77 are supposedly due the evs

Even then this order alone of 91x EVs is still well over the TVR of those 4 routes

Because these ones are two years newer and so it improves the age profile of the fleet and makes it more balanced? That and the issue of debranding more vehicles as @Volvodart mentioned.

Debranding is hardly issue, it takes a couple hours at most to scrape off any vinyls on the bodywork and when said vehicles are surplus to the requirements theres no rush.

The Omnidekkas were fine machines...in their day. They are getting on a bit, are non-standard, and expensive to run and maintain. They are now approaching 17 years of age so getting on a bit.

Still are, always enjoyed going on them minus the fact they’re a lot slower than Volvo or ADL vehicles. Even these days they’re holding up not too badly

 

[stevenedin]

Omnidekkas were falling apart before they left West Lothian. Remember the floor at the back downstairs separating from the back and needing repaired on a lot of them. I do like them though but I went on one at the Scottish Vintage Bus Museum and it doesn’t sound anything like it used to. Sounded very worn out. I remember some of the Volvo Olympian Royales sounding bad in their last days before getting scrapped.

 

[LT02 NVV]

I hope first certainly don’t hope to take you on as fleet manager…

I have to agree with that myself, I would be kinda terrible at managing a fleet for First, cause I would just put the Wright Renowns back in service.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Still are, always enjoyed going on them minus the fact they’re a lot slower than Volvo or ADL vehicles. Even these days they’re holding up not too badly

They aren't if you're looking at them from an engineering point of view.

Debranding is hardly issue, it takes a couple hours at most to scrape off any vinyls on the bodywork and when said vehicles are surplus to the requirements theres no rush.

It may not be a big issue but it's just another faff. As it is, the ones heading across are a bit newer, and improve the age profile of the fleet having had the initial hit on the Glasgow balance sheet.

 

[route101]

Thing with the 60, again when it was previously the 40, never used to travel Duke Street to Gallowgate via Bellgrove Street, straight along duke street.

personally I’m under the idea that the 41 should simply be reconnected to the 6A again every 12 Minutes, duke street > Gallowgate > Hope St > Great Western Rd > onwards.
(There’s no way however that the full length 6(East Kilbride to Clydebank) needs to service Great Western Rd every 12 minute though)

Given that the current 41 only does Edinburgh Rd & carntyne, it doesn’t have to contend with Shettleston traffic.

60 - The Forge > Duke Street > George Square > Hope St > Maryhill

the 2 & 61 serve Gallowgate anyways to Glasgow cross.

Personally I’m not very keen on routes being cut in half, some 10-15 years ago when “the overground” was cut, litterally, everything was severed and reconnected elsewhere, additionally your potentially forcing some to by a day ticket instead of being able for them to buy a cheaper single straight through on a continuous route, you do find this on 60s, the likes The Forge to Maryhill etc

The price of two singles is just about the price of a day ticket now. Only time I buy a single is if I'm coming back from town late at night and didn't get a bus in or I'm going outwith Glasgow for a trip overnight/holiday.

 

[adrock1976]

The price of two singles is just about the price of a day ticket now. Only time I buy a single is if I'm coming back from town late at night and didn't get a bus in or I'm going outwith Glasgow for a trip overnight/holiday.

Back in the early days of Overground, I recall there being a "Transfer 90" fare (or something similarly named) which would allow a passenger to transfer to another First Bus service within 90 minutes.

If anymore routes are going to be split, it would be an idea to bring that fare back. After all, there are transfer Hopper fares in London.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

After all the 60/61 are the city routes & the x10 only once an hour, the x10 from Maryhill in should be limited stop.

Problem is you have near empty x10s running 2 or 3 mins Infront of rammed 60s and 61s
So by Maryhill McDonald's people are not allowed on to the 60/61
And it's just adds to issues if the x10 picks up 30 or so passengers it takes some pressure off the 60 and 61

 

[LT02 NVV]

After all the 60/61 are the city routes & the x10 only once an hour, the x10 from Maryhill in should be limited stop.

The 41 was reliable, not much is now

the last time I drove many of these routes there wasn’t enough time on them..

unreliability being compounded simply because they no longer have the resources I.E. drivers

The fact they removed the section from Drumchapel - City Centre may of been an impact of the decreasing number of buses on the route over the years, the route had tons of buses on it prior to that change to terminate it in the city centre, which was back in around 2007/2008, as such, they didn’t need as much buses for it.

 

[sannox]

Having lived in easterhouse and my mum living in Pollock at peat road round about I have had many more issues with traffic via silver but and have always thought that if buses could be ran round to the back near Tesco and come out that way it would avoid pretty much every bus having to deal with the peat roundabout twice

It's debatable as both can be difficult. I seem to remember SPT not liking the 'doubling back' for Silverburn. Increases traffic at the Pollok roundabout and time to serve and many punters just use the stops at the bank. The 374 runs round the back- I think the old 47 route used to as well. The issue with running around the back is the congestion at the M77 roundabout - peak times can lose 5 to 10 mins there. Silverburn has been better since the road was widened between the bus station and Peat Road and the bus lanes on Barrhead Road help a bit.

At the Fort, the location of the bus stance means they go into the middle of the car parks and can get more chewed up in congestion, but the area has less congestion overall. THe roundabout at Silverburn is horrible though and the M77 can be really slow.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Problem is you have near empty x10s running 2 or 3 mins Infront of rammed 60s and 61s
So by Maryhill McDonald's people are not allowed on to the 60/61
And it's just adds to issues if the x10 picks up 30 or so passengers it takes some pressure off the 60 and 61

Not that the future can be seen, however First did purchase the smallest DD vehicles you can buy from ADL, the overcrowding on buses that could be regularly seen before Xmas and very likely will resume next month is again compounded by a lack of workers to operate the timetables there currently trying to operate.

much of the current Saturday timetables all week aren’t greatly different from the actual Mon-Fri ones, minus a few peak journeys of course.

In Edinburgh the large XLB vehicles certainly are monsters compared with the 10.3m doubles seen in Glasgow.
If you’ve got to cut services in an attempt to maintain reliability it certainly will cause capacity issues with Glasgow's current fleet of deckers.

Even more so that from Monday 24th most covid restrictions are lifting & only being a couple of months away from spring time coming in, I reckon it’s goin to be a rough year for transport in Glasgow particularly.

 

[LT02 NVV]

Problem is you have near empty x10s running 2 or 3 mins Infront of rammed 60s and 61s
So by Maryhill McDonald's people are not allowed on to the 60/61
And it's just adds to issues if the x10 picks up 30 or so passengers it takes some pressure off the 60 and 61

True, one time, I was heading into town on the 60, and by the Maryhill McDonald’s, the bus was packed, so I got off, and got the X10A that was behind the 60.

 

[PaulMc7]

I'm the opposite about public transport in Glasgow to be quite honest. Peak time bus use seems to be completely normal from pre Covid in the West end. I've had standing room only on most journeys going to and from work. I'd expect some of the current frequencies to stick permanently but that works in First's favour IMO

 

[92002]

I'm the opposite about public transport in Glasgow to be quite honest. Peak time bus use seems to be completely normal from pre Covid in the West end. I've had standing room only on most journeys going to and from work. I'd expect some of the current frequencies to stick permanently but that works in First's favour IMO

So if double decks were used more extensively on all routes at peak times there probably would not be that problem.

 

[PaulMc7]

So if double decks were used more extensively on all routes at peak times there probably would not be that problem.

There's certain routes that could definitely work full decker with a slightly toned down frequency. The 2 being one anyway.

 

[92002]

There's certain routes that could definitely work full decker with a slightly toned down frequency. The 2 being one anyway.

It would certainly need less drivers too. Currently a scarce commodity. Also making more room on the roads.

 

[PaulMc7]

It would certainly need less drivers too. Currently a scarce commodity. Also making more room on the roads.

This fits in pretty well with the fact I mentioned the 2 as well. There's been a lot of times where a bus hasn't ran and the next has been a single decker especially in the morning. It's usually standing room only for most of the route when that happens