First Greater Glasgow

[Volvodart]

They should all be eliminated by the buses coming in now.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The only annoying thing with them being high spec is that when they are displaced on the 500, Glasgow never seems to be able to keep them and they go down south.

You've got to remember that Glasgow is getting a very high proportion of the new vehicle spend - a profitable operation like First Cymru is having to rely on cascades such as the rumoured arrival of the current 500 fleet.

Poor old Buses of Somerset - they may have got the 60 plate e300s. They've not had a new bus since 2008 (aside from some Streetlites that were loaned on delivery for an emergency job).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I honestly don’t get why First always favoured single decks over a decker with such a big city like Glasgow. A route like the 2 (previously the 62) has had singles on it since First took over. Hopefully like some other routes they’ll realise that deckers are still needed.

As for the next order I think they may need some more E200MMCs to fully wipe out the remaining B7Ls and B10BLEs.

In part, you have to to remember the issues with First Group nationally. For instance, with the large batch of 62 plate e300s, they'd had 4/5 years of significant underinvestment following the Laidlaw purchase nationally. PSVAR regs were fast approaching and they had a very old fleet so it made sense to invest in large numbers of single deckers rather than a smaller number of doubles.

In addition, there are certain bus company managers who just do not like double deckers because of the downsides - a large part of the travelling public being pensioners who are less enamoured with walking up stairs, longer dwell times at stops, increased level of vandalism etc. Seen this in the past with other major urban operations (e.g. both Stagecoach and Arriva in Merseyside) where deckers were out of fashion for a while.

 

[Jordan Adam]

In part, you have to to remember the issues with First Group nationally. For instance, with the large batch of 62 plate e300s, they'd had 4/5 years of significant underinvestment following the Laidlaw purchase nationally. PSVAR regs were fast approaching and they had a very old fleet so it made sense to invest in large numbers of single deckers rather than a smaller number of doubles.

In addition, there are certain bus company managers who just do not like double deckers because of the downsides - a large part of the travelling public being pensioners who are less enamoured with walking up stairs, longer dwell times at stops, increased level of vandalism etc. Seen this in the past with other major urban operations (e.g. both Stagecoach and Arriva in Merseyside) where deckers were out of fashion for a while.

Perhaps a good example of a "Anti-Decker" operator was GRT/First Aberdeen. From 1988 to 2008 the only deckers they bought were 6 B7TLs in 2000, they only bought these because Culter Terminus on the 19 was unsuitable for Artics, if the terminus has been a normal style loop no doubt those 6 B7TLs would have been B7LAs.

Another point to note perhaps is on most standard deckers you can only realistically get 1 Buggy/wheelchair space before you start eating away too much at the lower deck seating capacity.

 

[SarahDFIG]

The b7ls will all be withdrawn soon with the B10BLEs holding out a little longer though.

On another note, noticed one of the caetano darts on the short 240 and it sounded poorly and struggling to go up the hill coming into forgewood.

Been on plenty and they fly up that but this one was all noise and very little movement. Obviously the Lanarkshire/Glasgow life is taking its toll on them as they have had a easy life in the past.

There time is limited though and I would guess we could see a few of these retiring by the end of this year/start of next.

 

[Scott mac]

Quite often unbranded one on 75 , surely theres enough 75 branded for the 75.

Maybe a branded one is off the road

 

[Volvodart]

Would they not have needed time off to get the next stop equipment fitted?

 

[SarahDFIG]

there is enough for the full 75 but as Scott said it will be off the road for something. Unfortunately there will be days branded vehicles will be off the road for work etc.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The b7ls will all be withdrawn soon with the B10BLEs holding out a little longer though.

On another note, noticed one of the caetano darts on the short 240 and it sounded poorly and struggling to go up the hill coming into forgewood.

Been on plenty and they fly up that but this one was all noise and very little movement. Obviously the Lanarkshire/Glasgow life is taking its toll on them as they have had a easy life in the past.

There time is limited though and I would guess we could see a few of these retiring by the end of this year/start of next.

I did think caetano buses were a rather odd move. While Lanarkshire is having stock pumped into their local services - they brought 52 plate buses up from down South. Scotstoun has some too. I think while they’re focusing on their smaller (sometimes forgotten) services they should really see what buses would be suitable for these routes. The 81 is a perfect example along with the 206. I don’t think they really know which buses to use on these routes hence why we see a mixture of all kinds of buses. This route has had darts, solos, deckers, new singles. The 46 is a route which sees older deckers, B7Ls and probably soon will revert to B7RLEs once the tridents and toiletboxes go. That’s something I think they have to address. Bringing in buses as old as the ones they are replacing to me makes no sense. Plus money was spent to paint these new buses into the urban livery.

 

[SarahDFIG]

I did think caetano buses were a rather odd move. While Lanarkshire is having stock pumped into their local services - they brought 52 plate buses up from down South. Scotstoun has some too. I think while they’re focusing on their smaller (sometimes forgotten) services they should really see what buses would be suitable for these routes. The 81 is a perfect example along with the 206. I don’t think they really know which buses to use on these routes hence why we see a mixture of all kinds of buses. This route has had darts, solos, deckers, new singles. The 46 is a route which sees older deckers, B7Ls and probably soon will revert to B7RLEs once the tridents and toiletboxes go. That’s something I think they have to address. Bringing in buses as old as the ones they are replacing to me makes no sense. Plus money was spent to paint these new buses into the urban livery.

They were brought in to replace the Marshall darts as these vehicles had lower millage but they are being hammered in Glasgow now and it's started to show. An order for a few 9.7m e200mmcs would be great to see for the smaller routes.

 

[Jordan Adam]

They were brought in to replace the Marshall darts as these vehicles had lower millage but they are being hammered in Glasgow now and it's started to show. An order for a few 9.7m e200mmcs would be great to see for the smaller routes.

I think it's fair to say the Caetano's have just been brought in as a "Stock gap". I doubt the intention is to keep them for long and no doubt they'll be replaced within the next year or so.

8.9M E200MMCs would be the modern equivalent, however i'd say unless there's clearance issues on the routes then 9.7M examples would be the better option as it gives you 4 extra step free seats.

 

[Jordan Adam]

the other B10BLE that left Blantyre is 61597 to replace Dumbarton's 62177 which is now awaiting it's fate.

33120 withdrawn

62177 was meant to be getting converted to a trainer (hence how it ended up with Glasgow), however i'm unsure if that is still the plan, certainly it would help see off some of those older Scania's.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

there is enough for the full 75 but as Scott said it will be off the road for something. Unfortunately there will be days branded vehicles will be off the road for work etc.

Which is why I say branding a bus for a particular is just wrong

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I did think caetano buses were a rather odd move. While Lanarkshire is having stock pumped into their local services - they brought 52 plate buses up from down South. Scotstoun has some too. I think while they’re focusing on their smaller (sometimes forgotten) services they should really see what buses would be suitable for these routes. The 81 is a perfect example along with the 206. I don’t think they really know which buses to use on these routes hence why we see a mixture of all kinds of buses. This route has had darts, solos, deckers, new singles. The 46 is a route which sees older deckers, B7Ls and probably soon will revert to B7RLEs once the tridents and toiletboxes go. That’s something I think they have to address. Bringing in buses as old as the ones they are replacing to me makes no sense. Plus money was spent to paint these new buses into the urban livery.

They were brought in to replace the Marshall darts as these vehicles had lower millage but they are being hammered in Glasgow now and it's started to show. An order for a few 9.7m e200mmcs would be great to see for the smaller routes.

I think it's fair to say the Caetano's have just been brought in as a "Stock gap". I doubt the intention is to keep them for long and no doubt they'll be replaced within the next year or so.

8.9M E200MMCs would be the modern equivalent, however i'd say unless there's clearance issues on the routes then 9.7M examples would be the better option as it gives you 4 extra step free seats.

I thought this had been questioned (and answered) when they originally moved up.

Whilst the Caetano Darts are 52 plates, for the first ten years of their life, they were relatively lightly used by Connex in Jersey - a place of limited road speed and size so they weren't thrashed or running up huge mileages. Hence they were an attractive buy for First from Ensign.

Even in their time with First, they have been used to pootling around Great Yarmouth, Clacton and bits of Hereford/Worcs before a bit more work in Cornwall so, in terms of condition, they might be a 52 plate on the front but they're nearer to a 54/55 plate. That's still getting on for a Dart so it's doubtless accurate that these are a stop gap to help get rid of the Marshall Darts that will have had life of being continually thrashed in London and Glasgow.

 

[lastbus]

I thought this had been questioned (and answered) when they originally moved up.

Whilst the Caetano Darts are 52 plates, for the first ten years of their life, they were relatively lightly used by Connex in Jersey - a place of limited road speed and size so they weren't thrashed or running up huge mileages. Hence they were an attractive buy for First from Ensign.

Even in their time with First, they have been used to pootling around Great Yarmouth, Clacton and bits of Hereford/Worcs before a bit more work in Cornwall so, in terms of condition, they might be a 52 plate on the front but they're nearer to a 54/55 plate. That's still getting on for a Dart so it's doubtless accurate that these are a stop gap to help get rid of the Marshall Darts that will have had life of being continually thrashed in London and Glasgow.

Most of the caetano darts are in pretty good condition.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

All marshal or caetanos could potentially run ok, but theres no escaping the fact they’ve stood on there wheels for 17 years old, from a passenger point of view thats what you get.

 

[Jordan Adam]

All marshal or caetanos could potentially run ok, but theres no escaping the fact they’ve stood on there wheels for 17 years old, from a passenger point of view thats what you get.

Not really, buses at that age can vary quite significantly, it all depends on the life they've had. Most passengers couldn't tell a 5 year old bus apart from a 15 year old bus, it's just a bus to them and they only care about it if something goes wrong or significantly stands out.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Not really, buses at that age can vary quite significantly, it all depends on the life they've had. Most passengers couldn't tell a 5 year old bus apart from a 15 year old bus, it's just a bus to them and they only care about it if something goes wrong or significantly stands out.

Given that most short WB darts are used mainly on supported/poorly performing routes where the blue rinser and concession groups gather, I can see your point.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

As a general rule of thumb, if it doesnt make us money you will get an utterly old and sh*t bus!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not really, buses at that age can vary quite significantly, it all depends on the life they've had. Most passengers couldn't tell a 5 year old bus apart from a 15 year old bus, it's just a bus to them and they only care about it if something goes wrong or significantly stands out.

Indeed and with a number now getting dateless plates, passengers will know they're not getting a new bus but not know if it's 17 year old one.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Indeed and with a number now getting dateless plates, passengers will know they're not getting a new bus but not know if it's 17 year old one.

I generally find most truly have a rather negative outlook on bus transport, as I’ve said before almost as if “bus” is a dirty word.

Someone online said recently that if perceptions are to be changed to appease passenger who have been let down previously, to retain the loyalty of your current customers or to attract or impress new customers as a result of increased motoring charges through LEZs, people turning to public transport should be given extra effort, attention to detail and reliability, not forgettting affordability.

When you have 17 year old buses on day to day service, you really arent completing those initiatives fully.

Only when all B10BLEs, B7Ls or other 15+ year old Solo or Darts are removed from glasgow would I relenton my thoughts.

PS seen a 38 branded bus at Muirhead today, they look nice but depsite the large splat of colour on the front the rest still seems rather bland.
A darker shade on the rear like FSEs would help give the livery some depth.

 

[83G/84D]

Caley depot isnt bet for views. Cathcart road is your best and probobly only option

Google maps (street view) shows a view of Caley from near Devon Place close to the M74, might be worth a try.

 

[laststop@96]

Never thought i would see the day avondale buses running buses 4 year younger than first glasgow on drumchape/clydebank and duntocher/clydebank

 

[CM]

Never thought i would see the day avondale buses running buses 4 year younger than first glasgow on drumchape/clydebank and duntocher/clydebank

The First vehicles are in far better condition though, some of Avondale's fleet are in a shocking state.

 

[laststop@96]

The First vehicles are in far better condition though, some of Avondale's fleet are in a shocking state.

some are some are not all buses pass the same MOT.

 

[KGGXXXY]

The First vehicles are in far better condition though, some of Avondale's fleet are in a shocking state.

A bit off topic, but sort of in keeping, is Avondale the last small independent" operator in the Glasgow area (excluding Lanarkshire) not operating as part of a larger group (Citybus - WCM) or just on SPT contracts (Garelochead - 100). I remeber the 90's with all the small operators mostly bread van minibuses.

 

[KGGXXXY]

Answering my own question, forgot about Colchri on the Southside.

 

[lastbus]

New airport bus was in service for a bit today

 

[Observer]

Another airport decker left ADL tonight, SK19 EOP.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

New airport bus was in service for a bit today

I did notice that an airport E200 was sitting outside the sheds today which is an unusual spot for it around the depot.

On a separate note I’ve noticed on passing Caley as of recent, the ex-Parkhead stock used to be stored outside the maintenance sheds but now they seem to be storing the branded stock like 38, 75, 34/34A etc there. All the unbranded Gemini’s appear to be sitting at the other side of the depot now.