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First Greater Glasgow

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13 May 2020
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123
Location
Coatbridge
Perhaps the solution is to create an X2 from Faufley to the city centre using the expressway and reduce the number going via Partick. A similar thing could operate from Baillieston to the city centre using the M8. Although at peak times it can be congested from the East all the way from Shettleston. So perhaps use the M74 to the city instead.
This will not work. You will find most people in Faifley go as far as Clydebank, people from Clydebank will go as far as Partick, people from Partick will be going to the City Centre and so on all the way to Baillieston. Its the high turnover of passengers that makes the 2 a success.
As for the express from Baillieston to the city centre it will never work either. People in Baillieston can walk to Edinburgh Road and get the 900 service or go to the train station.
 
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RailUK Forums

Joined
13 May 2020
Messages
123
Location
Coatbridge
What happened to a Bus station in Coatbridge?

The 201 is the only main route in Monkland's when you think about it.
The only kind of bus station Coatbridge has had is those bus stances at Asda from what I can remember. Buses years ago did used to turn at Ross Street which is close to the Farmfoods but that is now fairly new houses.
This link does tell you a bit about it.
 

route101

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16 May 2010
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10,634
Think the problem with the 2 in general is that so much of the route is pretty bad for congestion even off peak. Obviously, the current situation has helped that but in normal times the likes of Shettleston, Gallowgate, City Centre, Partick, Scotstoun, Clydebank etc can be pretty bad for reliability. Not surprised people opted to pay more for the train than get the 2 from Airdrie to Glasgow as it was around an hour and 15 mins even if the 2 was on time. Would it have worked if the route was only City Centre to Airdrie? Possibly but I highly doubt it would have been attractive enough even then if more reliable
With those time savings, worth paying more for the train. 262 used to run from Bus Station to Airdrie/Caldercruix
 

92002

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27 Mar 2014
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Clydebank
This will not work. You will find most people in Faifley go as far as Clydebank, people from Clydebank will go as far as Partick, people from Partick will be going to the City Centre and so on all the way to Baillieston. Its the high turnover of passengers that makes the 2 a success.
As for the express from Baillieston to the city centre it will never work either. People in Baillieston can walk to Edinburgh Road and get the 900 service or go to the train station.
No doubt First know where their passengers start and finish their journey. The people from Faifley who go to Clydebank invariably change on to a 1 for the fast trip to the City. The express would still go via Clydebank to Scotstoun and then the City centre. The existing 2 would still run. But not as frequently.

Anybody from Bailieston taking a 900 to the City only get stuck in the M8 Congestion. So nothing much gained there either. Although there is no doubt that the fastest way from either East or West is to use the train. Avoiding all the congestion on the roads.
 

Zakforbes4

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15 Nov 2019
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111
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Glasgow
No doubt First know where their passengers start and finish their journey. The people from Faifley who go to Clydebank invariably change on to a 1 for the fast trip to the City. The express would still go via Clydebank to Scotstoun and then the City centre. The existing 2 would still run. But not as frequently.

Anybody from Bailieston taking a 900 to the City only get stuck in the M8 Congestion. So nothing much gained there either. Although there is no doubt that the fastest way from either East or West is to use the train. Avoiding all the congestion on the roads.
changing the 2 would just cause far more hassle and people wouldn't be happy.
 

PaulMc7

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No doubt First know where their passengers start and finish their journey. The people from Faifley who go to Clydebank invariably change on to a 1 for the fast trip to the City. The express would still go via Clydebank to Scotstoun and then the City centre. The existing 2 would still run. But not as frequently.

Anybody from Bailieston taking a 900 to the City only get stuck in the M8 Congestion. So nothing much gained there either. Although there is no doubt that the fastest way from either East or West is to use the train. Avoiding all the congestion on the roads.
Used the 2 plenty of times as I've always stayed near Scotstoun or Yoker for most of my life and the amount of people who get a 1 to Scotstoun to change to a 2 or 3 is quite incredible. It's so common even off peak.

Been the same since the 204/205/215/216 days too
 
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Joined
13 May 2020
Messages
123
Location
Coatbridge
No doubt First know where their passengers start and finish their journey. The people from Faifley who go to Clydebank invariably change on to a 1 for the fast trip to the City. The express would still go via Clydebank to Scotstoun and then the City centre. The existing 2 would still run. But not as frequently.

Anybody from Bailieston taking a 900 to the City only get stuck in the M8 Congestion. So nothing much gained there either. Although there is no doubt that the fastest way from either East or West is to use the train. Avoiding all the congestion on the roads.
The 2 won't change. The frequency of the service is the way it is because its busy, it can justify its frequency. First won't risk cutting it and putting on a service that could quite easily make less money. With the current situation with buses I cant see any major expansion or trials of services for a few years. Nobody knows when pre-covid levels will return if they return at all. Passengers from Faifley will rightly as others have pointed out just get the 2 to Clydebank then change on to a 1 service.

There is also very little traffic at peak times so traffic in the M8 is running freely. 900 takes 15 minutes to the City Centre which is actually faster than the train at the current moment in time.
 

92002

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Clydebank
The 2 won't change. The frequency of the service is the way it is because its busy, it can justify its frequency. First won't risk cutting it and putting on a service that could quite easily make less money. With the current situation with buses I cant see any major expansion or trials of services for a few years. Nobody knows when pre-covid levels will return if they return at all. Passengers from Faifley will rightly as others have pointed out just get the 2 to Clydebank then change on to a 1 service.

There is also very little traffic at peak times so traffic in the M8 is running freely. 900 takes 15 minutes to the City Centre which is actually faster than the train at the current moment in time.
Guess the decision will be one taken by First themselves. However the reduced 2 service to make room for an express can easily be covered by using double deck buses with more capacity.

Whilst traffic on the M8 at peak times may be easier for now. It will no doubt return the their old ways when people start to go back to work. Limited stop trains can of course provide quicker travel times. It depends whether you compare apples with pears.

Really given the choice I would always travel by train. Its much more civilised, even at peak times and serves more central areas of the city.
 

DC21

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31 Jul 2020
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117
Location
Greater Glasgow
The X2 idea would be non starter. There used to be an East Kilbride express from Glasgow X11, not anything to do with the current. There was a Solo on the route frequently.
 
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Joined
13 May 2020
Messages
123
Location
Coatbridge
Guess the decision will be one taken by First themselves. However the reduced 2 service to make room for an express can easily be covered by using double deck buses with more capacity.

Whilst traffic on the M8 at peak times may be easier for now. It will no doubt return the their old ways when people start to go back to work. Limited stop trains can of course provide quicker travel times. It depends whether you compare apples with pears.

Really given the choice I would always travel by train. Its much more civilised, even at peak times and serves more central areas of the city.
Where are you getting this idea that First are thinking of running an X2? It seems its an idea that you have came up with and from what I see the vast majority of people are saying it won't happen apart from yourself.

Is there a limited stop train from Baillieston to the city centre? If the answer is no then the bus is faster at this current time.

Do you travel by express coach often enough to pass judgment on it?
 

92002

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27 Mar 2014
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Clydebank
Where are you getting this idea that First are thinking of running an X2? It seems its an idea that you have came up with and from what I see the vast majority of people are saying it won't happen apart from yourself.

Is there a limited stop train from Baillieston to the city centre? If the answer is no then the bus is faster at this current time.

Do you travel by express coach often enough to pass judgment on it?
Where do you get the idea that First are not looking at ways of improving their offering after the lockdown ends.

It's called business improvement strategy.
 

PaulMc7

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9 Jul 2019
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I think there will be at least few shake ups a few month after restrictions lift
I agree with this. Probably more cuts if anything but hopefully a few route changes too just to freshen things up and give people different options in areas with multiple buses
 
Joined
13 May 2020
Messages
123
Location
Coatbridge
Where do you get the idea that First are not looking at ways of improving their offering after the lockdown ends.

It's called business improvement strategy.
Please read what I wrote. I asked were the idea from the X2 came from. I'm still waiting on you to answer.
Every bus company looks at routes and ways of improving the business.
You seem very keen on your Faifley express service, do you work for First?
 

DC21

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31 Jul 2020
Messages
117
Location
Greater Glasgow
Please read what I wrote. I asked were the idea from the X2 came from. I'm still waiting on you to answer.
Every bus company looks at routes and ways of improving the business.
You seem very keen on your Faifley express service, do you work for First?
It's just the posters idea I think. Forums are a place for posters to add opinions on subjects.
 

Volvodart

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12 Jun 2010
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2,392
I see Glasgow has started converting Volvo B9TLs to Euro 6 emissions, evidenced by a twin exhaust, 37144/202 among them.
 

route101

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Guess the decision will be one taken by First themselves. However the reduced 2 service to make room for an express can easily be covered by using double deck buses with more capacity.

Whilst traffic on the M8 at peak times may be easier for now. It will no doubt return the their old ways when people start to go back to work. Limited stop trains can of course provide quicker travel times. It depends whether you compare apples with pears.

Really given the choice I would always travel by train. Its much more civilised, even at peak times and serves more central areas of the city.

Yes the 900 would a quick option, quicker than train. I never see many people using that option though. The 900 was prone to getting stick in traffic particularly in Edinburgh. Easterhouse station is close and more people using that.

As for route development, seen hardly any of that in Glasgow for ten years, only ones I can think of were the 77 and X19.
 

PaulMc7

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Yes the 900 would a quick option, quicker than train. I never see many people using that option though. The 900 was prone to getting stick in traffic particularly in Edinburgh. Easterhouse station is close and more people using that.

As for route development, seen hardly any of that in Glasgow for ten years, only ones I can think of were the 77 and X19.
I think the problem with Glasgow is that there's not really been anything new to be used as a development opportunity except the QEUH. Even "The One" concept although it's worked so well is more about the branding and the new opportunities the 1C and 1D brought. The 1/1A/1B are just renumbering from the 204/215/216. Even at that the 1D is only half as frequent as the 6 was to Mountblow and doesn't go beyond Clydebank very quickly in the day coming from there.

I think routes can be changed from time to time but unless there's a miracle I don't see major route development and frequency increases being likely for years
 

JumpinTrainz

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No doubt First know where their passengers start and finish their journey. The people from Faifley who go to Clydebank invariably change on to a 1 for the fast trip to the City. The express would still go via Clydebank to Scotstoun and then the City centre. The existing 2 would still run. But not as frequently.

Anybody from Bailieston taking a 900 to the City only get stuck in the M8 Congestion. So nothing much gained there either. Although there is no doubt that the fastest way from either East or West is to use the train. Avoiding all the congestion on the roads.
The 900 has always been really reliable from Baillieston in fact so much so that most people use it over the 38E to get into town. The problem with Easterhouse train station is that it’s located badly and is not actually infact anywhere near Easterhouse Centre it’s more Swinton area.

The 2 has worked well for many years hence why it’s never really been altered and the frequency has always been high. It connects so many different areas.

I see Glasgow has started converting Volvo B9TLs to Euro 6 emissions, evidenced by a twin exhaust, 37144/202 among them.
The B9TLs are at a tricky age where some are coming up for 14 years old yet many have been refurbed and look internally/externally good as new. While others are in need of a refurb (ie the One deckers).

I wasn’t sure how many B9TLs would make it into the LEZ years but they must be intending to keep as many as possible.
 
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Jordan Adam

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The B9TLs are at a tricky age where some are coming up for 14 years old yet many have been refurbed and look internally/externally good as new. While others are in need of a refurb (ie the One deckers).

I wasn’t sure how many B9TLs would make it into the LEZ years but they must be intending to keep as many as possible.
I'm somewhat surprised the B9TLs are being done too, especially given when LEZ comes in many of them will be nearing 16 years old. I would've expected the 09 plates to be the priority rather than the older 07/57 plates.

The 1/1A/1B were reportedly meant to be getting rerouted and allocated new E400MMCs, however it's pretty obvious that's been called off. Arguably it would make more sense to refurbish the E300s and put new E400MMCs on the 1C/1D displacing the Geminis.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I'm somewhat surprised the B9TLs are being done too, especially given when LEZ comes in many of them will be nearing 16 years old. I would've expected the 09 plates to be the priority rather than the older 07/57 plates.

The 1/1A/1B were reportedly meant to be getting rerouted and allocated new E400MMCs, however it's pretty obvious that's been called off. Arguably it would make more sense to refurbish the E300s and put new E400MMCs on the 1C/1D displacing the Geminis.
The best laid plans will undoubtedly have been knocked off course by Covid. It simply might be a means of conserving capital in these times. The e300s are now of an age where refurbing is now required though.
 

smtglasgow

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15 Feb 2011
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Glasgow & London
The One really needs as much capacity as possible - especially in the mornings. It seems so inefficient to be running crush loaded single deckers every couple of minutes. Some sort of workaround to allow double-deckers – maybe with a frequency reduction beyond Dalmuir/Old Kilpatrick seems like the way to go. Post-Covid frequency reductions on the city services (18/38/41/75//77) might free up some buses without investment? But agree that the E300s need a refurb – it’s over a year since I was on one, but the seats were in a shocking state on quite a few of them.
 

PaulMc7

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The One really needs as much capacity as possible - especially in the mornings. It seems so inefficient to be running crush loaded single deckers every couple of minutes. Some sort of workaround to allow double-deckers – maybe with a frequency reduction beyond Dalmuir/Old Kilpatrick seems like the way to go. Post-Covid frequency reductions on the city services (18/38/41/75//77) might free up some buses without investment? But agree that the E300s need a refurb – it’s over a year since I was on one, but the seats were in a shocking state on quite a few of them.
Fully agree with this. Used the 1s a whole lot over the years except the last 12 months but even 2/3 years ago the seating on the E300s was beginning to be an issue. I think there's a massive problem due to the fact beyond Dumbarton to Balloch and Helensburgh can be busy but in-between there and Old Kilpatrick is incredibly quiet purely as there's not much of a population covered and there's a fair amount of cars. Bellsmyre having the 206 too also has to be considered.

The every 3 mins frequency in the morning pre-Covid seemed like horrendous overkill especially as they naturally come in 3s and 4s just working through Whitecrook and Yoker.

Think it would take a timetable switcharound to sort in double deckers to The One too given that on a Sunday 1/1A/1B turn into a 1C and vice versa in the city centre and there's swaps in Balloch too with the 1/1A as well as the evening switcharounds
 

Jordan Adam

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The best laid plans will undoubtedly have been knocked off course by Covid. It simply might be a means of conserving capital in these times. The e300s are now of an age where refurbing is now required though.
Indeed, although i would agree with others that the E300s are getting on quite a bit for such a service. The mileage on them must be pretty high for a service bus.
The One really needs as much capacity as possible - especially in the mornings. It seems so inefficient to be running crush loaded single deckers every couple of minutes. Some sort of workaround to allow double-deckers – maybe with a frequency reduction beyond Dalmuir/Old Kilpatrick seems like the way to go. Post-Covid frequency reductions on the city services (18/38/41/75//77) might free up some buses without investment? But agree that the E300s need a refurb – it’s over a year since I was on one, but the seats were in a shocking state on quite a few of them.
My own view is that the buses getting Euro6 conversions should be refurbished as standard, but i get in the current climate that probably isn't financially viable, even if "other" operators south of the border seem to manage to afford frequent refurbs!... Interior condition has always been a really weak point for FirstGroup as a whole, perhaps not helped by the amount of outsourcing they do. It speaks volumes when even just retrimming the interior of a bus requires an external contractor to come in...

I agree about the seats, it's the same with the ones up here, you'll be hard pressed to find a E300 where the headrest hasn't been ripped or torn. The other major issue with the E300s is the state of the floors and the amount of staining although this affects all First vehicles new between 2011 and 2014. Our 18 year old B10BLEs when withdrawn had floors in better condition than the E300s did when they were only 3-4 years old.
The every 3 mins frequency in the morning pre-Covid seemed like horrendous overkill especially as they naturally come in 3s and 4s just working through Whitecrook and Yoker.
If you cut the frequency it can have a negative affect further out. For example the Dumbarton services run on a near enough 10 minute frequency, if you reduced that to a 15 minute frequency you'd likely end up with an hourly frequency to Helensburgh and a very inconsistent 15/30/15 minute frequency to Balloch.

The 3 minute frequency isn't actually that horrendous, especially not when you consider many other corridors have a similar frequency or even higher, it's just the services don't share the same number so your perception of them is different. The One isn't even that complex you just need to look at it as being three separate services (1/1A/1B, 1C & 1D) rather than one service. When you do that then you quickly realise that it's really no different to the 60/60A & 61 up the Maryhill corridor or the 4/4A/5/6 towards Cathcart, the only difference is "The One" share the same number/brand.
Even at that the 1D is only half as frequent as the 6 was to Mountblow and doesn't go beyond Clydebank very quickly in the day coming from there.
This all comes down to supply and demand. The reason the 6 was more frequent was because it took a longer route serving much more area, so passenger usage between Mountblow and Glasgow as a whole was much higher, whereas the 1D operates a far more direct route covering less area.
 

PaulMc7

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The main complexity the 1s bring especially the 1/1A/1B trio is the random scheduling. With the pre-Covid timetable it was easy to have a perfect every 5 mins schedule between 1/1A/1B to the alternating every 10 mins with the 1C/1D but instead it was scheduled 4 mins then 6 constantly then scheduled to take different times between Scotstoun and Clydebank towards Dumbarton to balance it out to every 10 mins but then the balance in the opposite direction was undone between Old Kilpatrick and Clydebank

I think it's fine to have corridors where the gaps in between services differ but when it's a group of variations branded together then a bit of organisation and structure is best. Also why I'm not really a fan of having multiple variations. The brand itself would probably have been fine for the 1/1A/1B on their own and then another brand could have been created with the 1C/1D and X4
 
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