First Group: General Discussion

[overthewater]

Insurers have cast new doubt over the value of FirstGroup’s American bus network Greyhound, demanding it pay up to three times as much excess as rivals.

The operator must now cover the first $15m (£12m) of any claim, reflecting underwriters’ fears about the age and state of repair of the Greyhound fleet, industry sources said. The scale of the increase is understood to be unique among US bus companies.

It comes as FirstGroup attempts to find a buyer for the Greyhound operations under pressure from shareholders, who it is due to face at its annual meeting on Thursday. FirstGroup has been under attack from its largest investor, Coast Capital Management, which wants sweeping changes to the board and strategy. The activist is calling for FirstGroup to pull out of the UK rail market after racking up big losses.

Chairman Wolfhart Hauser was forced out by the row last month. The board will be put to the ballot again this week.

FirstGroup’s other US businesses are in upheaval. It operates the largest networks of US school and municipal buses, which generate more than half its profits. Four senior executives have departed the unit over the last year. A FirstGroup spokesman said: “The Greyhound’s fleet age has reduced year on year. We have seen a hardening of the wider motor claims environment in North America – but this is not specific to Greyhound, nor any of our other divisions.”

Why has the insurance company waited this long to take such actions?

 

[Bluebirdscot66]

Why has the insurance company waited this long to take such actions?

That’s what I thought, it just seems it’s pressure from coast in order to force a quicker sale .

 

[overthewater]

Isn't that illegal? Coast better watch itself, we could see a court action, could we not?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Isn't that illegal? Coast better watch itself, we could see a court action, could we not?

Is what illegal?

 

[KendalKing]

Isn't that illegal? Coast better watch itself, we could see a court action, could we not?

That could depend on which country laws, you are going by.

What is illegal in one country, could be perfectly legal in another. As for the United States, what is illegal in one state, may be perfectly legal in another, similar to the UK, the laws in Scotland are different to those in England.

 

[overthewater]

Is what illegal?

That could depend on hich country laws, you are going by.

What is illegal in one country, could be perfectly legal in another. As for the United States, what is illegal in one state, may be perfectly legal in another, similar to the UK, the laws in Scotland are different to those in England.

We're only going on speculation here

That’s what I thought, it just seems it’s pressure from coast in order to force a quicker sale .

Would it not be for the use of better words " corporate espionage" Coast pulling the strings at the insurance company.

IE that surely can't be a reason why the insurance company has only now decided to up the rates? Its hard to come up with a better answer?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

We're only going on speculation here


Would it not be for the use of better words " corporate espionage" Coast pulling the strings at the insurance company.

IE that surely can't be a reason why the insurance company has only now decided to up the rates? Its hard to come up with a better answer?

That's just supposition and look at what First have said " “The Greyhound’s fleet age has reduced year on year. We have seen a hardening of the wider motor claims environment in North America – but this is not specific to Greyhound, nor any of our other divisions.”

They aren't saying they've been targeted.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Looks like long term First MD Marc Reddy has gone, press release for RailAir today has a quote from Simon Goff, Interim Managing Director, First Hampshire, Dorset and Berkshire

 

[Man of Kent]

Looks like long term First MD Marc Reddy has gone, press release for RailAir today has a quote from Simon Goff, Interim Managing Director, First Hampshire, Dorset and Berkshire

Marc Reddy was seconded to a central position over six months ago, and Simon Goff has been using that title since then. The press release for the new Reading Railair fleet in January had Simon Goff as IMD.

 

[DragonEast]

Marc Reddy was seconded to a central position over six months ago, and Simon Goff has been using that title since then. The press release for the new Reading Railair fleet in January had Simon Goff as IMD.

Is it surprising? Doesn't he have one of their best track records as hatchet man? How else are they going to realise any significant shareholder value from FirstBus?

I certainly can't think of any busman outside First (and probably few enough within it too) who'd want the role. They don't seem to make their reputation as hatchet man. Understandable; doesn't it need something else to develop a successful business?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Is it surprising? Doesn't he have one of their best track records as hatchet man? How else are they going to realise any significant shareholder value from FirstBus?

I certainly can't think of any busman outside First (and probably few enough within it too) who'd want the role. They don't seem to make their reputation as hatchet man. Understandable; doesn't it need something else to develop a successful business?

Are you getting confused - don't think Marc Reddy has that sort of reputation? He was at First Devon and Cornwall for the Ugobus excursion and I think he had to pick up some pieces after the bloke who was there beforehand - some ex rail bloke called Gerald??

 

[winston270twm]

Has anyone got an idea what new buses First have confirmed are due this year?

 

[KendalKing]

Has anyone got an idea what new buses First have confirmed are due this year?

35583-35637 Wright StreetDeck’s for Hunslet Park
36901-36919 Scania N280UD with ADL Enviro 400City bodies for Eastern Counties
39402-39472 Scania N280UD CNG with ADL Enviro 400City bodies (Single Doorway) for Bristol
39481-39492 Scania N280UD CNG with ADL Enviro 400City bodies (Dual Doorway) for Bristol
39502-39525 Optare MetroDecker for York

 

[cnjb8]

35583-35637 Wright StreetDeck’s for Hunslet Park
36901-36919 Scania N280UD with ADL Enviro 400City bodies for Eastern Counties
39402-39472 Scania N280UD CNG with ADL Enviro 400City bodies (Single Doorway) for Bristol
39481-39492 Scania N280UD CNG with ADL Enviro 400City bodies (Dual Doorway) for Bristol
39502-39525 Optare MetroDecker for York

I believe buses for Eastern Counties are for Excel.

 

[winston270twm]

35583-35637 Wright StreetDeck’s for Hunslet Park
36901-36919 Scania N280UD with ADL Enviro 400City bodies for Eastern Counties
39402-39472 Scania N280UD CNG with ADL Enviro 400City bodies (Single Doorway) for Bristol
39481-39492 Scania N280UD CNG with ADL Enviro 400City bodies (Dual Doorway) for Bristol
39502-39525 Optare MetroDecker for York

Cheers, I understand the Bristol gas buses may have gone back to 2020.

 

[Simon75]

Changes to legals (ones I know have changed)

Potteries and Leicester now Leicester
Eastern Counties now Norwich

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Cheers, I understand the Bristol gas buses may have gone back to 2020.

Correct - think it was reported in the staff mag that they were coming early in 2020. However, 77 were mentioned rather than 83.

The dual door ones are to replace the 2017 mmcs currently used on the metrobus services, I would guess. The others to cover the east Bristol routes to Kingswood because of the AQMA

 

[Jordan Adam]

Has anyone got an idea what new buses First have confirmed are due this year?

35583-35637 Wright StreetDeck’s for Hunslet Park
36901-36919 Scania N280UD with ADL Enviro 400City bodies for Eastern Counties
39402-39472 Scania N280UD CNG with ADL Enviro 400City bodies (Single Doorway) for Bristol
39481-39492 Scania N280UD CNG with ADL Enviro 400City bodies (Dual Doorway) for Bristol
39502-39525 Optare MetroDecker for York

Add to that...

15 Wright Streetdeck FCEV (Fuel-Cell Electric Vehicle) for First Aberdeen Route 19 (Council owned). The fleet numbers could possibly be in the 399xx series?

 

[Bradley]

Is this true because my nan heard from a friend that First Yeovil is being taken over by different company if so what company is that.

 

[Surreyman]

Reported that Hampshire are due 20 E200MMC?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Reported that Hampshire are due 20 E200MMC?

Think that’s the case - for the Star (formerly Zip routes) where there’s a quality contract in place.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Is this true because my nan heard from a friend that First Yeovil is being taken over by different company if so what company is that.

Think your nan’s friend is just repeating a mangled line that First Bus is up for sale and so Yeovil (as per everywhere else) will be under new ownership

 

[Jordan Adam]

Reported that Hampshire are due 20 E200MMC?

Think that’s the case - for the Star (formerly Zip routes) where there’s a quality contract in place.

Those have been on the cards for quite some time, must be over a year now that i've been hearing about The Star getting E200MMCs.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Those have been on the cards for quite some time, must be over a year now that i've been hearing about The Star getting E200MMCs.

I thought it was Q3 2019 that had been mentioned? Mind you, not heard anything concrete

 

[Blackpudding]

Correct - think it was reported in the staff mag that they were coming early in 2020. However, 77 were mentioned rather than 83.

77 is correct. The gas buses are not consecutively numbered because of fleet numbers used by Routemasters at one point.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

77 is correct. The gas buses are not consecutively numbered because of fleet numbers used by Routemasters at one point.

No but the numbers still suggest 83

39402-72 = 71
39481-92 = 12

 

[Blackpudding]

No but the numbers still suggest 83

39402-72 = 71
39481-92 = 12

Yes they do suggest that but there are fleet numbers not being used within each batch because they were previously used by Routemasters. The total number is 77.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I thought it was Q3 2019 that had been mentioned? Mind you, not heard anything concrete

Couldn't comment, it's just been on the cards for quite a long time!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Couldn't comment, it's just been on the cards for quite a long time!

Think we’re in violent agreement

Other than to meet contractual, emissions or partnership requirements, struggle to recall any other new fleet other than for Berkshire RailAir and FEC Excel in 2019.

On the plus side, the number of B7Ls is fast diminishing (other than in West Yorkshire). The gricer aspect of me likes them but the reality is that they are awful to travel on and expensive to run.

However, there are a number of fleets that are increasingly in need of surgery.

 

[Robertj21a]

There's a number of comments around, from usually respected individuals, suggesting that some other First Ops may be nearing a sale. On the other hand, there's been no shortage of such comments ever since the Northampton fiasco, so it may be nothing too imminent.