overthewater
Established Member
- Joined
- 16 Apr 2012
- Messages
- 8,178
I think people are getting to hopped up on Glasgow at the moment.
I cannot think of a worse scenario than going down that road. I can only see potential buyers wanting all of First Glasgow as you'll end up in direct competition with other operators if depots are sold individually but the CMA would welcome your suggestion. Some of First Glasgow routes like the 2 are shared between depots and I think the First Midland Bluebird/Scotland East 38 may be operated by 3 depots. That's one of the reasons why I think selling individual depots will only muddy the waters.Maybe we could see Scotland go like Manchester has so far on a depot by depot sale
Would the fact First don’t own Overtown depot make life tricky for any potential buyer?Would be interesting to see how that would work as all of the depots outside of Glasgow have buses that run into Glasgow. Would definitely mean a lot of changes and would make it interesting for how they'd manage the routes because not having Overtown, Blantyre or Dumbarton would cause a lot of dead mileage if they still wanted to provide services to areas outside Glasgow. Don't think there's a depot currently that isn't very important to the network operating effectively
How do you work that out? You do realise that the operation of some routes are shared between depots?The only way stagecoach will get Glasgow if 1 or 2 depots goes to a other company but stagecoach would want the biggest one
Would the fact First don’t own Overtown depot make life tricky for any potential buyer?
I think people are getting to hopped up on Glasgow at the moment.
Off course a doHow do you work that out? You do realise that the operation of some routes are shared between depots?
Agreed, if there are further sales (or a split up & sale) Glasgow would be one of the last to go.
Some of First Glasgow routes like the 2 are shared between depots and I think the First Midland Bluebird/Scotland East 38 may be operated by 3 depots. That's one of the reasons why I think selling individual depots will only muddy the waters.
Not necessarily. As one of the few really profitable bits of First Bus it could obtain a significant price. Some of the other UK operations are unlikely to generate worthwhile amounts.
Just an update from up here in GM land - Vantage will be moving to Arriva's depot in Bolton, subject to TC and landlord approval. They are setting up Rusholme just in case it doesn't go through for the 11th Aug when Diamond are taking over.
Cheers,
K
Not necessarily. As one of the few really profitable bits of First Bus it could obtain a significant price. Some of the other UK operations are unlikely to generate worthwhile amounts.
I can see the argument you make and don't necessarily disagree. I just suspect First will probably aim at selling the poorer bits off first like they have in the past. That said nothing is off the table and as we all know anything could happen, although unlikely we could find out tomorrow that Walmart have acquired FirstBusUk!
yes and that depot is Go North West and one who has moved there is known as Buses 2012 on flickerJust an update from up here in GM land - Vantage will be moving to Arriva's depot in Bolton, subject to TC and landlord approval. They are setting up Rusholme just in case it doesn't go through for the 11th Aug when Diamond are taking over.
Drivers are leaving in droves at the moment (and heading to a certain Cheetham Hill-based rival firm!), so Rotala may have their work cut out for them when they get the keys!
With regards to a few other points, i think First will sell their own Grandmother for the right price, nothing is off the table. So with places such as Glasgow is all dependant on who puts offers in. But I do believe that they'll be one of the last to go.
With shared routes, theres nothing stopping rival firms doing shared routes, but its interesting that they stopped shared routes on 135 and 8s with QS and BN in the months before the Go Ahead sale...
Cheers,
K
talking of Bolton i think the 163 service Bury to Manchester would have been better with GNW would cut out a lot of dead mileage
But if this is about bringing in the big bucks ...
The real interest lies with the most problematic parts of UK Bus. Glasgow, Bristol, Leeds will sell no problem – although even here it will be a buyers market. But what do you do with the parts of the empire that are haemorrhaging cash? Who wants Potteries or Somerset? South Yorkshire? I can see some brave management teams considering a buy-out in some of the middling op-cos, but realistically, its hard to see First raising a decent sum across the board. If it’s all to happen ‘at pace’ then this probably becomes impossible.
Somerset (FSW) isn’t haemorrhaging cash. It’s probably at subsistence level aside from SPS operations.
I am a little perplexed by the thought of this piecemeal disposal idea. It would take longer (so going against “at pace”) and will you be left with a fire sale of the dross?
Somerset (FSW)
Companies were queing up to by parts of Manchester, so it possible, Stagecoach, Go Ahead, Transdev and Rotala, could be looking at all part.
Companies were not queueing up to buy Manchester. NX dropped out early on (asking price too high vs costs to turnaround), Oldham had a buyer lined up (none of the above) deal collapsed approx Feb. Not aware of a replacement being found.
It's a buyers market, First have both the problem of Arriva being for sale at the same time & Stagecoach being restricted by its existing market dominance.
... Or, what about only "packages" being available for sale, - to include the "dross" ?
EGs - Leicester, Worcester, and Potteries ?
Bristol and Buses of Somerset ?
.....and Arriva being a far better purchase for many.