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First Group: General Discussion

tbtc

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Sorry to labour the point but you’re looking at this rather one dimensionally. Much of what PE businesses do is around buying distressed firms and making a sum before flipping the business.

Take an example like Greybull who have invested in all manner of things from steel manufacturing to snooker halls.

I think that this point gets missed by a number of enthusiasts... who seem to think that a bus company can only be taken over by a bus company... but in the real world there are plenty of organisations who'll buy businesses on the cheap and try to squeeze money out of them... look at Dragon's Den as an example - you may have an investor who knows nothing about (for example) a Travel Agents but they'll know how to run a business, how to find synergies, how to cut costs, how to try to raise revenues, how to find new streams of money... but a few people seem to think that only a "proper bus man" can run a bus company (i.e. someone who's ticked all the boxes, from driving vehicles to working in engineering... rather than, say, used a spreadsheet) in the same way that the railway side of the Forums has people who think that everything would be solved if only we had "proper railway men". in charge.
 
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Robertj21a

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I think that this point gets missed by a number of enthusiasts... who seem to think that a bus company can only be taken over by a bus company... but in the real world there are plenty of organisations who'll buy businesses on the cheap and try to squeeze money out of them... look at Dragon's Den as an example - you may have an investor who knows nothing about (for example) a Travel Agents but they'll know how to run a business, how to find synergies, how to cut costs, how to try to raise revenues, how to find new streams of money... but a few people seem to think that only a "proper bus man" can run a bus company (i.e. someone who's ticked all the boxes, from driving vehicles to working in engineering... rather than, say, used a spreadsheet) in the same way that the railway side of the Forums has people who think that everything would be solved if only we had "proper railway men". in charge.

Absolutely. I was told that a good manager could manage anything, which is very true. He's paid to *manage* (everything, but notably, other people) in order to achieve corporate targets. He's not there to necessarily carry out the tasks themselves, though it may well be helpful if he can.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Absolutely. I was told that a good manager could manage anything, which is very true. He's paid to *manage* (everything, but notably, other people) in order to achieve corporate targets. He's not there to necessarily carry out the tasks themselves, though it may well be helpful if he can.

As one of my managers once said “I’m not here to DO anything; I’m here to make sure other people DO things”

Bit oversimplified but you get the drift.
 

PaulMc7

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Always thought it will be someone new who takes over First tbh. Never really seen it as another bus company buying over them. Might be good for the industry as a whole though having someone new with potentially a lot of fresh ideas to try out
 

Baxenden Bank

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Well that rules out stagecoach and arriva, that juat leaves Transdev, Go ahead, National express, ratp group and everyone fav company from the black country.

More interesting fact which come out yesterday.
More passengers are using contactless/moblie app than cash fares on first services. Does anyone know how this compares to everyone else?
Of course I am. £1.80 m-ticket single compared to £2.80 cash single. Stupid not to! When the differential disappears will people revert to cash? (assuming a cash option remains)
 

overthewater

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Just because PE can buy Part of First UKBUS Empire. The better Q here, should be WHY would there want to buy just part of First bus? This is what I trying to highlight, If it's the WHOLE company that PE have a better chance, It could do things on UK Scale. Ie doing it on a much more local scale makes things alot harder.


Let say PE or similar buy First Scotland? Then what.. As TBTC says
"How how to find synergies, how to cut costs, how to try to raise revenues, how to find new streams of money"

What's First current management been doing for the past 6 years? We've seen cuts upon cuts, back office changes etc price increase. Whole layers of management being strapped out. Glasgow Lez will make sure were mandatory improvements in the fleets will be going for the next 4 years. Where else could be a PE cut cost? Shut a depot? that Bannockburn gone and everything runs out of Larbert then bye school contracts. There could pull out of West Lothian. Cut more routes in Aberdeen and Glasgow but how would that generate new passengers to get more money? Let not talk about the Pension pot..
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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Just because PE can buy, the better Q here should WHY would there want to by part of First bus? This is what I trying to highlight, If its the WHOLE company that PE have a better chance.

Let say PE or similar buy First Scotland? Then what.. "How how to find synergies, how to cut costs, how to try to raise revenues, how to find new streams of money" What's First current management been doing for the past 6 years? were seen cuts and cuts, back office changes etc price increase Whole layers of manamanger being strapped out. Glasgow Lez will make sure were mandatory improvements in the fleets will be going for the next 4 years. Where else could be a PE cut cost? Shut a depot? that Bannockburn gone and everything runs out of Larbert then bye school contracts. There could pull out of West Lothian. Cut more routes in Aberdeen and Glasgow but how would that generate new passengers to get more money? Let not talk about the Pension pot..

A) can we have with spelling and punctuation so your point is clear and
B) many a £200m t/o business has been pillaged by vulture capitalists who will do “things” that First wouldn’t! As I say, you’re not looking at it from the right perspective
 

overthewater

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A) can we have with spelling and punctuation so your point is clear and
B) many a £200m t/o business has been pillaged by vulture capitalists who will do “things” that First wouldn’t! As I say, you’re not looking at it from the right perspective

I will sort out A, However Just to ask What would vulture capitalists do that First wouldn't? That sounds dam right scary... and the passengers may will be the losers either way.
 

overthewater

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A: should be sorted now.
Just because PE can buy Part of First UKBUS Empire. The better Q here, should be WHY would there want to buy just part of First bus? This is what I trying to highlight, If it's the WHOLE company that PE have a better chance, It could do things on UK Scale. Ie doing it on a much more local scale makes things alot harder.
Let say PE or similar buy First Scotland? Then what.. As TBTC says
"How how to find synergies, how to cut costs, how to try to raise revenues, how to find new streams of money"
What's First current management been doing for the past 6 years? We've seen cuts upon cuts, back office changes etc price increase. Whole layers of management being strapped out. Glasgow Lez will make sure were mandatory improvements in the fleets will be going for the next 4 years. Where else could be a PE cut cost? Shut a depot? that Bannockburn gone and everything runs out of Larbert then bye school contracts. There could pull out of West Lothian. Cut more routes in Aberdeen and Glasgow but how would that generate new passengers to get more money? Let not talk about the Pension pot..

Sale and lease back of assets being a start?

Sell off the depots and rent them back? Isnt that cause even more trouble down the line for any new owner? I take it they could also outsource even more back office functions?
 

Stef434

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Honestly i can't see Stagecoach having much interest in any First Opco, they seem more interested in increasing profits in their existing operating areas (through cuts & new commercial ventures) rather than acquiring other operators.

Arriva is a bit tougher to predict. They could expand but would they be in the position to once First decide on a sale? Given the issues they have of their own probably not.



I wouldn't be too surprised if a non-UK firm made some moves.
What about a joint venture by Go ahead NX for the Scottish Region this is been speculated like wild fire in Glasgow Depots
 

tbtc

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Sell off the depots and rent them back? Isnt that cause even more trouble down the line for any new owner? I take it they could also outsource even more back office functions?

You could sell off buses and lease them back, if you could find a more advantageous way of doing it (than borrowing the cost of a brand new bus directly)... you could subcontract maintenance (like various depots have tried, like the Volvo deal at Aberdeen)... you could subcontract things like cleaning... but you could also bring in functions from elsewhere in your corporate group.

You could use the bus business to try to win other contracts (e.g. if you have a depot with hundreds of drivers then you could bid for a council bin lorry contract or join forces with a supermarket delivery operation or taxi firm or other delivery business (instead of paying people to sit behind a desk handing out timetables and answering Lost Property enquiries, use your Travel Shop or depot as an Amazon delivery hub...).

We are in a world where firms with huge premises now just need a small "click and collect" operation or fleet of delivery vans to meet a large amount of their customer demand - and a bus company with an oversized depot (able to be partly leased out), large number of drivers and able to purchase vehicles in bulk could take advantage of that market.

If you have a large depot in an area where you no longer run so many vehicles then you could subcontract some of the space to private firms... ). Look at how Sainsburys bought Argos and set up Argos functions in the supermarkets (and saved money by closing existing Argos stores) - you can find synergies between two different businesses - you've got Private Equity firms owning firms like Kwik Fit - why not use some depot space to set up something like that or an Enterprise Car Hire yard? People are going to drive cars, so you could make money from them (it doesn't have to be one or the other) - heck, you could use some of the depot space for a petrol station with franchised minimart!

Even a quarter of First's bus operations is a potentially lucrative business - high cash turnover, potentially available on the cheap, you've got a high public profile in the towns/cities where you operate - huge vehicles running around potentially bringing in large sums of advertising money - you've got a captive audience on your buses who could be advertised to in a much more savvy manner (given that bus companies often have posters/banners up for films that finished at the cinema months ago) - people love the idea of advertising through Google/ Facebook but each vehicle in your company is carrying around hundreds/ thousands of people a day who could be targeted much better than they currently are.

There's no reason why First's operations have to be taken over by another bus company, and there's no reason why First's operations have to be run like a traditional bus company - the future could be very different.
 

overthewater

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Lets Take First Scotland because that what I know. I bet other part of the UK could be the same.

You could sell off buses and lease them back, if you could find a more advantageous way of doing it (than borrowing the cost of a brand new bus directly)... you could subcontract maintenance (like various depots have tried, like the Volvo deal at Aberdeen)... you could subcontract things like cleaning... but you could also bring in functions from elsewhere in your corporate group.

Cleaning is already subcontract, Also alot of admin is not controlled locally not even SM, so if certain thing would have to be utilised by other operations in your corporate group. So that not really a cost saving. Of course selling of you assist and renting them back has been such a good idea for others companies, :| Dangerous path..

You could use the bus business to try to win other contracts (e.g. if you have a depot with hundreds of drivers then you could bid for a council bin lorry contract or join forces with a supermarket delivery operation or taxi firm or other delivery business (instead of paying people to sit behind a desk handing out timetables and answering Lost Property enquiries, use your Travel Shop or depot as an Amazon delivery hub...).

There still short of drivers, and if you were able to get more driver for no bus driving duties I doubt there would want to mix.

This would only work in Aberdeen - the only place left with travel shop somehow. There could deal with Amazon pick but its location no where you could park nearby so it would have to be small parcels. Plus the Travel shop only open 9 - 5, so it would maybe workers? There is locker in Union sq shopping Centre and that open for longer including today. Every other travel shop office is gone. Heck Lost Property office at Larbert was also shut and moved to the so called Head office building. Again the depots have been gutted right out, I doubt there is any spare staff

TauRx Therapeutics already rent office space in Aberdeen depot , First are already letting out parts of its depots.

I can see where your coming from, but the cost savings and merger would be much smaller if you only acquire certain parts of the business. Sainsburys bought Argos are doing the same thing, Bin lorries and buses or parcels and buses are not. How many people actually read the advertisements on buses instead being glued to their phones. I doubt there is demand for new petrol station with franchised minimart, you would have to compete with the supermarkets. There not really any close to there depots.

If you had a proper large space, I dare say you could have big warehouse, where buses are storage overnight and by 6am there all out then and Yoda/Hermies comes in for the morning to sort out the local parcels, but again you would have to get rid of your existing depots to make that that is possible.
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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A: should be sorted now.

Sell off the depots and rent them back? Isnt that cause even more trouble down the line for any new owner? I take it they could also outsource even more back office functions?

It depends - there are always shades of grey in the world.

First of all, Private Equity Groups come in a range of shapes and sizes. Apollo (remember them) have made deals for businesses worth £200m to £2bn so don't think that somehow part or all of First UK Bus wouldn't be attractive to an investment fund.

Also, whilst the use of equity to make money is commonplace, it also depends on the nature of the fund. Some are good custodians of the businesses they buy so funds from a sale and leaseback can be used to clear debt or to invest in the business. Other firms are nothing more than carpetbaggers who are out to make a quick buck. So if you buy a firm for £500m and then sell the property for £300m and then sell the hollowed out business for £300m.... the equity group have made £100m and the purchasing business will have got what they want.

I've seen this happen with one of my friend's firms that was effectively hollowed out and then bought by my employer!! The equity partners sold and leased back the property (or just sold it for development) and slashed the back office functions. Then sold it to my firm - yes, we had some issues with some of the property leases (though most have break clauses so the pain is limited) and we could absorb the business with minimal impact on our back office overhead.

Of course, we're getting ahead of ourselves and we have no idea how any UK Bus separation will pan out
 

overthewater

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It will all come down to money at the end of the day. There is something behide it, of course until its signed on the dotted line its all to play for.
 

Volvodart

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FirstGroup Plc’s (FGP.L) largest individual shareholder has urged the British train and bus operator to sell its U.S. operations and make its plans clear around separating core businesses.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-f...operator-to-sell-u-s-operations-idUKKBN1XS1DK

(Reuters) - FirstGroup Plc’s (FGP.L) largest individual shareholder has urged the British train and bus operator to sell its U.S. operations and make its plans clear around separating core businesses.

Robert Tchenguiz, who holds an economic interest of 4.7% in London-listed FirstGroup, said here he would seek a shareholder meeting as soon as possible.

FirstGroup was not immediately available for comment.

The Aberdeen-based company said on Thursday it was in talks with bidders for its U.S. intercity service Greyhound. It had put up the business for sale earlier this year, partly due to growing competition from low-cost airlines.

https://www.rns-pdf.londonstockexchange.com/rns/7352T_1-2019-11-18.pdf

Statement by Robert Tchenguiz - FirstGroup
Robert Tchenguiz has an economic interest of 4.7% in FirstGroup PLC.
As the person with the largest individual economic interest in FirstGroup, Robert Tchenguiz is very disappointed with how the management misled or at best confused the public in the manner they expressed their announcement on Thursday.
The statements made were ambiguous, confusing and misleading, and suggested that the management of FirstGroup might still be committed to the defunct strategy presented by the deposed Chairman in May 2019. As a result, the investors suffered a massive 20% decline in the share price during the day.
In numerous communications with the Chairman, Robert Tchenguiz has asked him to publicly clarify that the “Strategic Plan outlined in May” is not being adopted by the company – which is no more than what he has been discussing with major shareholders in exclusive meetings. The Chairman however has refused to clarify his position publicly to stakeholders, and, regrettably, has forced this public request.
There is a clear disconnect between what the Chairman has stated and what the CEO presented on Thursday:
• In the Chairman’s statement (buried on page 3 of the press release), he states that: “I have ... met with our major stakeholders and have a clear understanding of their views and perspectives.
There is broad alignment in the view that the task of extracting greater value from the Group is the clear priority. I agree that this is best achieved through a rationalisation of the current portfolio”.
The Chairman has also expressed to major stakeholders that the board “is looking at all options”.
• However, Matthew Gregory, the CEO of FirstGroup, stated in his presentation that [FirstGroup will] “…focus on First Student and First Transit, our core contract businesses in North America” and that the “First Bus separation workstreams [are] making progress”; he then made various references to the “Strategic Plan outlined in May”.
These statements are in direct contradiction with one another and must be reconciled
immediately by the Chairman. Key shareholders are not aware of what the strategy is – they have publicly on numerous occasions asked for a sale of the US business. Such a step would enable the company’s operations to thrive under different, and more competent, ownership, and would release an important amount of value to investors.
Clearly, the rationale of a vibrant US business which is being managed in Aberdeen, six time zones away, is not the most effective or efficient management strategy. Although FirstGroup has the largest US school bus and transport business, the third largest US competitor has just attracted investment in the billions from major US/Canadian pension funds.
FirstGroup has no existing US shareholders of any significance although its largest asset is situated in the US. The business is geographically fragmented and not focused. There is a bus business in the US and one in the UK; there is a train business in the UK. If companies focused on their core business in particular regions, this is more conducive to and would attract more investment.
The right steps have already been taken by the company - which is the separation of the core businesses. Now a transparent Strategic Review should be conducted in parallel. The company is not making clear that it is conducting a Strategic Review. This omission begs the question as to whether the company is ignoring investors’ requests in order to continue a flawed, status quo strategy presented in May?
Every news article since the announcement only makes reference to concerns around minor financial issues and accounting changes communicated on Thursday, and this lack of transparency in respect of the company’s strategy has caused unwarranted volatility in its share price.
Robert Tchenguiz’s request of the Chairman was very specific; the Chairman has said in private meetings that the board will consider all options – he has asked the Chairman to use the correct terminology that the market will recognise which is that the Company will conduct a Strategic Review.
A Strategic Review is a structured process and will identify value-creating opportunities within the business. It will involve the board and its professional advisors and enable them to identify the best value propositions for the shareholders that may result in a break-up of the Company’s disparate operations. This information should be available publicly to the stakeholders as soon as practicably possible.
It will also prevent the type of misleading statements that were made in November 2018, when the company announced an incorrect pension deficit of 1 billion pounds resulting in an unprecedented drop in the company’s share price to the lowest it has seen.
Because of the EGM in June, the analyst community looked at and was very much in favour of Coasts Plan of a separation process. In June 2019, RBC analyst stated “If Coast Capital’s plan succeeds, then we see scope up to 245 pence a share. The US business alone is worth over 3.25 Billion Pounds”.
Robert Tchenguiz regrets to have to make this forced announcement, but he is hereby publicly asking the Chairman to clarify his intentions and to put into effect a strategic review and clarify for the stakeholders without any ambiguity that this is what the company is doing.
“If this sensible request is not adhered to, I am committed to doing whatever it takes to present stakeholders with transparency and more importantly, value creation opportunities which will most probably lead to trading in line with the company’s international peers. In line with this commitment, I will look to conduct an EGM as soon as practically possible to remove the volatility created by ambiguity and provide shareholders with transparency in respect of the company’s intentions and the measure of its value.
It is important that steps are taken as soon as possible to identify value creation for investors, and to implement these steps as soon as practically possible, giving employees and clients of these assets in North America the ability to pursue an independent future under a more engaged, competent, and well capitalized ownership”.

https://otp.tools.investis.com/generic/regulatory-story.aspx?newsid=1345546&cid=858

Statement re: Robert Tchenguiz statement
Released : 18.11.2019

FIRSTGROUP PLC

STATEMENT RE: ROBERT TCHENGUIZ STATEMENT

FirstGroup plc (‘FirstGroup’ or ‘the Group’) notes the statement issued today by Robert Tchenguiz regarding the Group’s half-yearly results announcement of 14 November 2019.

The Board has been clear, including in the recent half-yearly results announcement, that it is intent on realising value for all shareholders and is focused on actively managing the entire portfolio by all appropriate means.

The Board believes there is significant value to be unlocked across the Group’s portfolio of leading public transportation businesses, and there are limited synergies between the divisions, particularly between the UK and North America. Realising greater value from the Group is the clear priority and this is best achieved through a rationalisation of the current portfolio. The Group has taken a number of important steps in relation to this strategy, as outlined in the half-yearly results announcement.

The Chairman and Chief Executive’s comments at the front of the half-yearly results announcement clearly reflect this position and are consistent.

David Martin, giving his view on the Group in his first Chairman’s statement since being appointed on 15 August, noted that “We will continue to actively evaluate all options across our entire portfolio to ensure we remain focused on the most appropriate and deliverable means to realise shareholder value.”

Matthew Gregory, Chief Executive, stated that “We are intent on realising value for shareholders and will actively manage our entire portfolio by all appropriate means.”

We note Mr Tchenguiz’s comment concerning our North American assets and in particular the sale of a competitor. First Student and First Transit are valuable assets and well positioned in markets with profitable growth. The Board has been consistent and clear that the objective is to realise value and therefore were a credible and deliverable offer to be received for these or any other business in the portfolio then, of course, the Board would give that serious consideration.

We also note the comment made by Mr Tchenguiz about an announcement in November 2018 regarding the pension deficit. This is an incorrect assertion and no such announcement was made.

We also note the comment by Mr Tchenguiz regarding the potential to requisition a further General Meeting. Whilst this is the prerogative of shareholders, the Board believes it would be in the best interests of all stakeholders for us to get on with the portfolio rationalisation and realise value for shareholders without further distraction or delay.
 

tbtc

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Lets Take First Scotland because that what I know. I bet other part of the UK could be the same.



Cleaning is already subcontract, Also alot of admin is not controlled locally not even SM, so if certain thing would have to be utilised by other operations in your corporate group. So that not really a cost saving. Of course selling of you assist and renting them back has been such a good idea for others companies, :| Dangerous path..



There still short of drivers, and if you were able to get more driver for no bus driving duties I doubt there would want to mix.

This would only work in Aberdeen - the only place left with travel shop somehow. There could deal with Amazon pick but its location no where you could park nearby so it would have to be small parcels. Plus the Travel shop only open 9 - 5, so it would maybe workers? There is locker in Union sq shopping Centre and that open for longer including today. Every other travel shop office is gone. Heck Lost Property office at Larbert was also shut and moved to the so called Head office building. Again the depots have been gutted right out, I doubt there is any spare staff

TauRx Therapeutics already rent office space in Aberdeen depot , First are already letting out parts of its depots.

I can see where your coming from, but the cost savings and merger would be much smaller if you only acquire certain parts of the business. Sainsburys bought Argos are doing the same thing, Bin lorries and buses or parcels and buses are not. How many people actually read the advertisements on buses instead being glued to their phones. I doubt there is demand for new petrol station with franchised minimart, you would have to compete with the supermarkets. There not really any close to there depots.

If you had a proper large space, I dare say you could have big warehouse, where buses are storage overnight and by 6am there all out then and Yoda/Hermies comes in for the morning to sort out the local parcels, but again you would have to get rid of your existing depots to make that that is possible.

Logistics/ Deliveries/ other forms of transport (Uber etc) have been completely transformed in the past decade or so – one of the most changed bits of the economy – other companies have had to adapt to changing tastes (e.g. Supermarkets moving away from having a big shed on the edge of town that people will travel to, to having lots of “local”/”express” shops in communities for people to do their top up shops, with vans delivering the weekly/monthly “big shops”).

Bus companies still feel very twentieth century though – we provide the same service that we’ve always provided, take it or leave it, the only concession to modern developments has been to finally accept debit card payments.

So we have bus depots with huge yards, back from the days when PVRs were a lot higher, sometimes storing dozens of dilapidated vehicles whilst the firm waits for the Accountants to give them permission to finally scrap them.

We have no partnerships with other organisations (e.g. whilst I could earn Nectar Points on a VTEC train, or redeem them against journeys, there’s no loyalty card to encourage me to use buses more often).

We have depots capable of fuelling hundreds of buses per day, where the pumps are fairly unused during “office hours”, but I’m not aware of any entrepreneurial bus company that tries to bring in some revenue for the diesel that they must purchase in bulk at a low price (I’m not even saying it needs to be available to the general public – they could use it for certain commercial organisations).

But we are often stuck in the twentieth century – e.g. your reply that there’d be no point in trying some synergy between a Lost Property office and a place for getting internet shopping sent to, since the Lost Property place shuts at five o’clock – an entrepreneurial organisation would decide to move with the times and offer something more attractive than that.

I’m not saying that all of this would work, mind, I’m just giving examples that I (a layperson who doesn’t work in the industry) can see where there could be synergies between a bus firm and other businesses, or the existing assets/ land of a bus depot could be better used, or you could find new revenue streams.

You’ve got an operation at each depot with potentially hundreds of drivers, maybe hundreds of vehicles, lots of mechanics, often lots of underutilised yard space, large fuelling facilities, an office that needs to be staffed for Lost Property (so would be ripe to provide additional facilities)… you have lots of contracts being tendered for other “driving” work (e.g. you could bid for the council bin lorry contract, and use that as a “foot in the door” to train staff capable of driving large vehicles to make the switch into driving buses).

At the same time there are a lot of businesses looking to exit the High Street who want to retain some sort of physical “presence”. Look at how companies like Regus have turned office space into a highly lucrative operation (people will pay a premium for short term rental). You could enter into a partnership with businesses to permit people to buy/ collect/ drop off products at the bus depot – it doesn’t have to remain just a “twentieth century” office that closes at five o’clock and only deals in bus enquiries/ lost property.

I can see why an investor who already had transport or retail interests may feel like they could use a bus depot better than the existing bus company can – I can see why an operation with bus depots could be attractive to outside companies (so that the potential bidders doesn’t just have to be the same old list of other bus companies). So if I were a private equity firm who already owned a freight firm or had interests in a motoring organisation or who was part of a consortium that owned something like Kwik Fit then I might see potential in First that isn't being utilised.

Sadly, we probably won't see anyone being proactive regarding First's potential and depots will continue on a downward spiral.
 

overthewater

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To be fair some of these ideas should have come in years ago, IE parcel picks in places at depots but In scotland most of the depot really dont have any spare staff. Lost Property office at First FSE were 10am - 3.30 and that was it. ( staff are now gone and the role has been merged) Glasgow is only slightly better. It wouldn't be bus side that would be dealing with lost property it would be the Parcel people, as said so much staff up here have been ripped out. I have to keep on remember you in not in Scotland Ie public bins collections are not privatised up here Commercial waste has.

Up here I just don't see the spare amount of mechanics, If im honest everything is just ticking over with no room to spare, this could be different down in parts of England.

If local council, bus company and big Parcel company all got together to get diesel that could well work? How would that work in partise with BSOG?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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If local council, bus company and big Parcel company all got together to get diesel that could well work? How would that work in partise with BSOG?

BSOG is a grant paid to bus companies based on the miles they run in service. It has nothing to do with how much diesel you use. Remember that you have First vehicles in coaching units fuelling up for work that doesn't include BSOG.
 

WatcherZero

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Its not strictly by miles, its paid on how many litres of diesel/petrol or kg of gas they use (34.57 pence per litre) while operators also have to supply km operated figures so they can judge your fairly using the fuel you claim to be. There is also bonus payments per km operated if the bus is low emission and a 8% bonus to their grant it has a smartcard reader.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...t-guidance-for-commercial-transport-operators
 

WHL Spotter

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Its not strictly by miles, its paid on how many litres of diesel/petrol or kg of biofuel they use (34.57 pence per litre) while operators also have to supply km operated figures so they can judge your fairly using the fuel you claim to be. There is also bonus payments if the bus is low emission and if it has a smartcard reader.
In Scotland it is paid by the km with a bonus for environmental beneficial vehicles.
 

winston270twm

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Threadneedle Asset Management Limited have now increased their stake in First Group up to 11.192%.

I think it's going to come to a head before the FGP board deliver their strategy. I wouldn't be surprised to see all 3 US based investors join forces to force the board to re-think it's strategy again, between Threadneedle (11.1%), Coast (10%) & Robert Tchenguiz (4.7%) they own virtually 25% of First Group. Plus there's West Face Capital Inc with another 4.7% holding.
 

overthewater

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Does that mean US parts are sold off while First are stuck with UKBUS? if that is correct would the same of UK bus still go ahead?
 

winston270twm

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Does that mean US parts are sold off while First are stuck with UKBUS? if that is correct would the same of UK bus still go ahead?

The US investors argument is, why have your HQ in Aberdeen when the bulk of your remaining ops will be US based (Excl UK Rail), therefore, US investors want First Group to instead sell off US assets, as Transit & Student are the most valuable and will add more shareholder value the quicker.
 

overthewater

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The US investors argument is, why have your HQ in Aberdeen when the bulk of your remaining ops will be US based (Excl UK Rail), therefore, US investors want First Group to instead sell off US assets, as Transit & Student are the most valuable and will add more shareholder value the quicker.

Wouldn't HQ move?
 

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