First Group: General Discussion

[winston270twm]

If this information come from British pub book then dont trust it ........

No, from a log of 2014 First deliveries posted elsewhere, I assume this to be from an official First allocation list

 

[Volvodart]

The information on First Group Fans yahoo group is as posted in the British Bus Publishing 2014 handbook.

 

[winston270twm]

The information on First Group Fans yahoo group is as posted in the British Bus Publishing 2014 handbook.

Volvodart,

Just double checked the original source and it did come from First Group fans, so you are quite correct.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Well that'll be Glasgow cutting back slightly on some services...

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/glasgow/travel_news/service_updates/

 

[Surreyman]

First now appear to be allocating some new buses to First Scotland East, these were originally destined for delivery elsewhere within First:

47529 – 47534 Streetlite DF for Scotland East.
47613 – 47617 Streetlite DF for Scotland East.
63157 – 63160 Streetlite Max DF for Scotland East.
63219 – 63223 Streetlite Max DF for Scotland East.

If they are for FSE then they would provide a pointer as to which areas/routes are profitable, personally would hope that FSE didn't receive any new vehicles, just cascaded old DDA stock but then I am a self confessed 'Firstbus hater'

 

[Blindtraveler]

19 new vehicles, but for which depot(s)?

anyone know the PVR of the 38/X38? Thats the only single deck service I can think of that might justify these and should have thought this would be about the correct number? ↲
↲

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I think Midland Bluebird do need an influx of new buses, some of their buses do look as if they have seen better days...

 

[radamfi]

Stagecoach has registered a new route 38 between Manchester Royal Infirmary, Salford, Swinton and Farnworth, which appears to compete with most of First route 36/37.

 

[DunsBus]

If they are for FSE then they would provide a pointer as to which areas/routes are profitable, personally would hope that FSE didn't receive any new vehicles, just cascaded old DDA stock but then I am a self confessed 'Firstbus hater'

Six vehicles are due at Gala to bolster the E300 stock on the X95. There are a number of changes due in the Borders on 21st April - in summary they are:

62/62A Edinburgh - Peebles - Galashiels - Melrose renumbered to X62/62A, curtailed to run Edinburgh - Peebles - Galashiels and the Edinburgh city centre terminus changed from Edinburgh Bus Station to Waterloo Place. Monday-Saturday daytime frequency increased to every 20 minutes.

Introduction of new services H1 (Galashiels - Langlee - Borders General Hospital), H2 (Galashiels - Tweedbank - Borders General Hospital) and H3 (Galashiels - Tweedbank - Borders General Hospital - Melrose), the H3 replaces the Galashiels - Melrose section of service 62.

65A (Galashiels - Langlee - Melrose - St Boswells) is withdrawn.

Revised timetable introduced on X95 (Edinburgh - Galashiels - Hawick - Carlisle) due to the Borders Railway works on the A7.

And in case anyone's forgotten, up in Edinburgh First will stop running service 43 (Edinburgh - Barnton - Dalmeny - South Queensferry) after end of service on 20th April.

 

[overthewater]

It would make far more sense to send E300 to Gala, instead of Streetlight max, thus streamlining the fleet. Unless they're planning to swap buses around with someone else who has E300?

 

[Jeni]

Stagecoach has registered a new route 38 between Manchester Royal Infirmary, Salford, Swinton and Farnworth, which appears to compete with most of First route 36/37.

If this does turn out to be a high frequency route, the Oxford Road is about to get a whole lot busier!

 

[Polo Mint]

Stagecoach seems to have retaliated with that interesting new route to Farnworth after First announced plans to improve route 42. First plan to increase ex-Finglands route 42 from every 20 mins to every 10 mins and extend it from Piccadilly Gardens to North Manchester General Hospital.

Route 42 directly competes with Stagecoach route 42 from Piccadilly to Parrs Wood with alternate journeys extending from Parrs Wood to Stockport (every 10 mins to Parrs Wood and every 20 mins to Stockport). First journey's only go to Parrs Wood and not to Stockport and soon will extend on the other side of the route from the Piccadilly end. Finglands used to have a higher frequency than every 20 mins in its heyday and Bullocks used to operate the route so there is plenty of demand, but now Stagecoach have almost all the demand on the route.

There is also Magic Bus route 142, which is a duplicate of route 42 operating at a very high frequency, I believe about every 5 mins. Other routes including routes 41, 43, 143, X41, X57 also operate down Wilmslow Rd, with over 15 more routes operating down Oxford Road.

Stagecoach don't have a lot of presence in Salford, except from route 50 from Parrs Wood to Salford Quays and some routes to Wigan and Leigh acquired from the purchase of the First Wigan depot. The new route 38 should add Stagecoach a presence in the area, but I hope First and Stagecoach and co-exist on these route corridors and I hope they both don't end up withdrawing their services.

On a different note, I have finally tried to First Wright Streetlites, and they are slightly better than I thought, and the engines seemed pretty keen. They are still rattle a bit more than Eclipses, but I like them.

 

[david16]

I think Midland Bluebird do need an influx of new buses, some of their buses do look as if they have seen better days...

Solos and streetlites even with an extra bus per hour frequency must be cheaper to run than mix of 8 to 15 year old full size single deckers and 15 to 18 year old double deckers.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Hopefully Ipswich should be in line for a big upgrade in the coming months.

http://ipswichbusblog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/a-chat-with-firsts-chris-speed.html

Finally those horrendous 51-reg Scania/Wright Eclipse things will be going (touch wood). They're the ex-dealer stock ones, and I don't think the interiors have been touched in the 12-13 years since they were built. I wonder though, whilst they are DDA compliant (to the best of my knowledge), will they even get a refurb and a repaint, or is it straight to the scrappers, or the Essex operations?

65674, one of the worst buses I've ever travelled on

 

[DunsBus]

Hopefully Ipswich should be in line for a big upgrade in the coming months.

http://ipswichbusblog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/a-chat-with-firsts-chris-speed.html

Finally those horrendous 51-reg Scania/Wright Eclipse things will be going (touch wood). They're the ex-dealer stock ones, and I don't think the interiors have been touched in the 12-13 years since they were built. I wonder though, whilst they are DDA compliant (to the best of my knowledge), will they even get a refurb and a repaint, or is it straight to the scrappers, or the Essex operations?

65674, one of the worst buses I've ever travelled on

These Scanias were originally bought for the ill-fated assault on Edinburgh in 2001-02. When this ended, the vehicles were moved on despite FSE trying unsuccessfully to keep them. Ironically FSE were to receive ex-dealer stock 52-plate Scanias, with the same interior spec, in 2005 after their use on rail replacement work had ended.

 

[Polo Mint]

Would First scrap 51 reg DDA compliant buses when there are many far older buses in the fleet? Surely they would simply be cascaded.

 

[mbonwick]

Just because they are newer, doesn't mean the 51 plates are suitable replacements. You can't replace an Olympian with a mini dart for example!

Further, a lot of the 51 plate stuff coming out of London has been in terrible condition, and only fit for scrap anyway.
Even if the vehicles are in OK nick, a lot of the time the cost of conversion to single door layout etc is more than the vehicle is worth.

However, given the Ipswich L94UBs are already to 'provincial' spec, I think its fair to say that they will be cascaded off onto some other poor region.

 

[Blindtraveler]

it is certainly interesting - the Scanias Ipswitch has must be pritty bad given the codition of similar up here.

 

[david16]

Just hope they put some padding on the seats of those V, W and X reg tridents if they intend to upgrade them.

Hard seated buses are awful to travel on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

it is certainly interesting - the Scanias Ipswitch has must be pritty bad given the codition of similar up here.

Those red seated solars really need to be refurbished with far more comfortable retrimmed seats.

The seating on all of the W, X and Y reg buses at Larbert Road and other First bus depots are really a disgrace.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just hope they put some padding on the seats of those V, W and X reg tridents if they intend to upgrade them.

Hard seated buses are awful to travel on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Those red seated solars really need to be refurbished with far more comfortable retrimmed seats.

The seating on all of the W, X and Y reg buses at Larbert Road and other First bus depots are really a disgrace.

Quite funny given how we're always hearing how great bus services are on the continent yet the seats are almost uniformly worse than in the UK!!

I suspect that the OP was "just sounding off". I'll bet my house that the 51 plate vehicles will reappear given that First already have a challenge to meet DDA.

As M Bonwick states, only stuff like the ex London dual door Marshall Darts are unlikely to be sacrificed so young as they're not very good and they need a lot of work to make them suitable for the provinces anyway!

 

[winston270twm]

FGP shares closed down 4.7% today on the back of a downgrade

http://www.theguardian.com/business...r/01/firstgroup-shares-down-merrill-downgrade

It doesn't bode well for tomorrow's pre-close trading update

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

FGP shares closed down 4.7% today on the back of a downgrade

http://www.theguardian.com/business...r/01/firstgroup-shares-down-merrill-downgrade

It doesn't bode well for tomorrow's pre-close trading update

Hmmm.... guess that's looking at FGW having reduced revenues because of Dawlish and Levels though confess don't know what the Polar Spike did for the North American ops :-? The FCC uncertainty and the fact that they're more likely to lose than retain (which is pretty logical if you think about it) is one of those things that they can't really do much about.

One area that is picked out as a high point is UK Bus so think the pressure on that part of the business to divest much more has receded (though the Lothian and South Devon ops still look very vulnerable). That should keep some posters (with multiple ids across various message boards and blogs, who then refer to themselves - circular reference methinks) a wee bit quieter

 

[winston270twm]

Hmmm.... guess that's looking at FGW having reduced revenues because of Dawlish and Levels though confess don't know what the Polar Spike did for the North American ops :-? The FCC uncertainty and the fact that they're more likely to lose than retain (which is pretty logical if you think about it) is one of those things that they can't really do much about.

One area that is picked out as a high point is UK Bus so think the pressure on that part of the business to divest much more has receded (though the Lothian and South Devon ops still look very vulnerable). That should keep some posters (with multiple ids across various message boards and blogs, who then refer to themselves - circular reference methinks) a wee bit quieter

If First Group can improve profit margins by only a small percentage at their two biggest divisions i.e. UK Bus & First Student, things should start to fall in to place & improve at a faster pace. First shouldn't consider selling off anymore of UK Bus that is profitable however small no matter what, any subsidiaries that require a lot of investment/management time and are currently loss making with little prospect of turning around their fortunes should be dropped. I still think First should have steered clear on buying Finglands and starting a potential bus war with Stagecoach, it's a distraction they could have done without & could potentially damage the good they have done to improve profits & grow the Manchester business.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If First Group can improve profit margins by only a small percentage at their two biggest divisions i.e. UK Bus & First Student, things should start to fall in to place & improve at a faster pace. First shouldn't consider selling off anymore of UK Bus that is profitable however small no matter what, any subsidiaries that require a lot of investment/management time and are currently loss making with little prospect of turning around their fortunes should be dropped. I still think First should have steered clear on buying Finglands and starting a potential bus war with Stagecoach, it's a distraction they could have done without & could potentially damage the good they have done to improve profits & grow the Manchester business.

Can't disagree with that. The Finglands 42 vs Stagecoach 38 seems a bit of an unwelcome distraction.

It'll be interesting to see how the areas that were neglected and aren't traditional powerhouses but have received real investment (e.g. Hampshire, South Wales) are progressing.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Just because they are newer, doesn't mean the 51 plates are suitable replacements. You can't replace an Olympian with a mini dart for example!

Further, a lot of the 51 plate stuff coming out of London has been in terrible condition, and only fit for scrap anyway.
Even if the vehicles are in OK nick, a lot of the time the cost of conversion to single door layout etc is more than the vehicle is worth.

However, given the Ipswich L94UBs are already to 'provincial' spec, I think its fair to say that they will be cascaded off onto some other poor region.

Not all of the 51 plated London wrecks are bad. A minority of the ones Glasgow got which have been refurbed are actually not that bad. The lower end of the 330XX lot ie, 33023 and the higher end 33094 are just an example of a conversion and refurb done right...

 

[radamfi]

There must be some kind of rational explanation for the apparent escalation of competition between First and Stagecoach in Greater Manchester. On the face of it, it looks like a great way for both companies to lose money for no reason.

 

[winston270twm]

Can't disagree with that. The Finglands 42 vs Stagecoach 38 seems a bit of an unwelcome distraction.

It'll be interesting to see how the areas that were neglected and aren't traditional powerhouses but have received real investment (e.g. Hampshire, South Wales) are progressing.

Hmmm, Finglands has already gobbled up a batch of Streetlites and looks set to take 27 new E400's when there is little more than double that figure left for the rest of the subsidiaries

Obviously First see a lot of scope with Hampshire & South Wales with both fleets benefiting heavily from new vehicles for both the 2013 orders & the current 2014 orders. Leicester are also having a bit of makeover with the 35 x 58 plate ex London E400's and I wonder if the re-branding of Taunton has had a positive effect on revenues/fortunes etc

I expect much of the above will not be confirmed in any great detail until the full year results are released on 21st May

First have sold 4 ex London Tridents to Ensign during March, maybe they are starting to relax the group disposal rules a bit? any extra money raised by selling on vehicles rather than scrapping can only be a good thing!

From First Group : Tridents W901 / 902 / 929VLN X963HLT.

 

[WatcherZero]

Another report on Merrill Lynch downgrade over loss of Thameslink possibly pushing them over the edge into requiring another discounted cash call.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-FirstGroup-falls-on-Thameslink-concerns.html

 

[winston270twm]

Another report on Merrill Lynch downgrade over loss of Thameslink possibly pushing them over the edge into requiring another discounted cash call.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-FirstGroup-falls-on-Thameslink-concerns.html

I don't think the market would react kindly to another cash call with 12 months, the take up was pretty poor last time.

I think First group could be forced to sell something like Greyhound which is quite profitable, none core & would raise circa £600 Million

 

[overthewater]

Sounds like that guy might get his wish after all. I cant remember this name, the one who wanted to split the company in two.