First Midland Bluebird

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yet in 96 it remerged the two separate operations back into what was Eastern used to be bar Monklands. The manamanget were in Dalkeith no New street but still, until the bus war the companies Midland and Lowland were making very healthy profits, and running a fleet on par with the likes of Stagecoach Fife. So the Mid - late 90s isn't where the trouble started. I really do wonder what would have happened if First head chickens just kept their ambitions to themselves and instead did up its game in Restalrig, penicuik etc......

SMT lost £1.6m in 1995 and £3.1m in 1996

The slicing and dicing began after that so it's difficult to really assess subsequent financials though the impact of the bus war in 2001 was pronounced. Being charitable, you could argue that the privatised SMT may have been where it began to go wrong.

I do agree that they perhaps that their post 2001 retreat back to their heartlands could have been managed better but perhaps the die was cast...

 

[tbtc]

Worth remembering that twenty years ago, it wasn't a forgone conclusion that Lothian/LRT would beat Eastern/SMT/First. The "Peace" of around 1994 (?) saw Lothian retreat from South Queensferry and West Lothian (apart from the staff bus 109) in exchange for First cutting back on some services inside the city - still leaving First with enough juicy bits in Edinburgh.

Whilst Lothian were late to the low-floor party (initially not even buying enough to cover the 44's PVR IIRC), First had a presence on virtually every main corridor in the city, they had identified a number of areas for services that had been neglected by Lothian, invading on the busy bits and leaving the rest.

First would never have been allowed to take over Lothian, so I don't know why they went in so aggressively around 2001 - they could have maintained an operation like Stagecoach currently have in Sheffield/ Liverpool, where they cherry-picked to give themselves a 50% share of the busy routes and left the incumbent operator to deal with the quieter/orbital routes.

 

[overthewater]

Even parts of the Stagecoach Empire were behide the times in getting Low floor stock it should be noted. Here is the thing there mistakenly believed part had been neglected by Lothian, then neglected the parts there opearted and let Lothian to sweep right in.

Here is the thing before that nasty bus war First was already on the busier routes:

* C3 MUSSELBURGH-NEWHAVEN
* C5/C55 Wester hailes - Restalrig
* C64 and 65: Pencuik - Edinburgh
* 66: BALERNO-WALLYFORD
* C70: Roslin - Loanhead - Edinburgh - Wester hails - Every 20min
* 86 CLERWOOD-MAYFIELD
* 129: Sliverknowes - Senton sands

plus 15min services on St johns road and Calder Rd to livingston etc

Just after the bus war First left Wester hailes and Restalrig and then give up on most of Penicuik.... Then there left Clerwood, then Silverknowes...

 

[Steamysandy]

About 1999 I was working at Scottish Widows at the Commonwealth Pool and the C3 was the route of choice travelling from East Lothian via Musselburgh.Nothing else was as handy.

 

[overthewater]

Why on earth did there get rid of the C3 and C55

Overground map July 2000
https://www.flickr.com/photos/william-walker/36646685496/sizes/l

April 2001 changes:
* Service C3: MUSSELBURGH-OCEAN TERMINAL
* Service 66 (Overground) BALERNO-WALLYFORD Every 10 mins
* Service 67 (Overground) SETON SANDS-GYLE Every 10 mins
* Service 86(Overground) CLERWOOD-MAYFIELD Every 10 mins
* Service 88 SCOTSTOUN ESTATE-ROSEWELL Every 20 mins
* Service 89 SILVERKNOWES-CITY-GILMERTON-DALKEITH-NEWTONGRANGE-BIRKENSIDE Every 20 mins
* Service 106: HEDDINGTON-EDINBURGH Every 20 mins
* Service 124 NORTH BERWICK-EDINBURGH Every 20 mins

Withdrawn: 43, 55, 64, 79,X84 and 129

August: 2001
NEW:
22: Copy of Lothian route
23: Copy of Lothian route
25; Copy of lothian route Waterloo place - Riccarton campus
43: Reintroduced route SQ
44: Copy of Lothian route
88: City centre to Rosewell
89: City centre - Birkenside
106: Revised to every 30 mins to work along side 113 to provide a 15mins service to Tranent
129: Reintroduced but Passengers in Silverknows had already switched to lothian over the 6 months .

X5: North Berwick - Edinburgh every 30mins Via Muss...

Does this look like a company that knows what its doing in a bus war?

 

[Steamysandy]

In the summer of 2012 my wife was in hospital at Bonnyrigg so I was using the 141 from Musselburgh.This was just before Dalkeith depot closed so they were bringing in buses to fill-in till the final event.These included an Aberdeen vehicle replete with Aberdeen posters but the prize for me went to an ex Glasgow Alexander bodied high floor Volvo single decker which appeared on the 16 -35 from the Hospital one afternoon.
At the beginning of July the back of the ticket read "Strathclyde Police wish you a Safe Christmas!"
I later discovered it was listed as being in store!

 

[Jordan Adam]

Aberdeen vehicle replete with Aberdeen posters

Those would have been 62164 or 62169, which were both down for just under 2 weeks on loan around that period.

Although a "very" below par photo you can see both buses together here recently repainted still earning their keep in the granite city!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jordanadam44/38553287484/

 

[overthewater]

Just in case anyone hasn't click, what happened to the old SMT 55 route? Lothian come right in and operates it as No30......

 

[Steamysandy]

Things did get a bit ridiculous in places.For example it was said that if a Martian landed in Musselburgh he probably would have thought that Seton Sands or Wallyford was the Capital of Scotland because thats where all the buses were going!
Incidentally I can remember standing in Musselburgh one summer Saturday and watching three if not four North Berwick buses going past packed to the gunwales with Edinburgh pensioners on their Saturday out.

 

[overthewater]

https://twitter.com/FirstScotland/status/971800371671764992

There are new ticket machines on all our services from 10th March, our staff will assist you as best they can but please be patient as they get used to the new machines

 

[overthewater]

The company has been tweeting all day how contactless payment will be allowed from tomorrow.

 

[Observer]

They're already enabled, I came across a leaflet (don't have it any more) that specifically mentioned 2nd April.

 

[overthewater]

https://twitter.com/FirstScotland/status/980822520088678400 From today :P

Great news! From tomorrow you will be able to pay for your ticket using contactless payments!

https://twitter.com/FirstScotland/status/980040812267560960

From the 3rd April we will accept contactless payments on our buses, no need to worry about carrying change for your bus ticket!

Maybet the English twit team forgot the scots don't really do Easter.

 

[christopherrfc]

https://www.firstgroup.com/south-east-and-central-scotland/have-your-say

 

[overthewater]

First must be going for a September change. Just after the festival. This has been talked about for a while, I'm also sure there have some housing development money going spare from route 22.. That's a clue as to where the new homes are being build.

 

[Volvodart]

The information is now up here:-

https://www.firstgroup.com/south-east-and-central-scotland/have-your-say

 

[Scotrail88]

What’s the summary of this?

 

[Jordan Adam]

These appear to be quite significant changes. I can't comment on if they're cuts or improvements as it's not an area i know too well, but certainly comparing the current map to this proposed one the new network looks much simpler.

 

[oldman]

Maybe a slight cut overall - nothing to Queensferry, less to Edinburgh via Sighthill but more through Corstorphine, some trimming in the wilder west of the area - but tidier.

 

[overthewater]

It's all swings and roundabouts, its the first proper overhaul in many many many years, instead of the usual moving the chairs, There are improvements, but the cuts which have appeared fall into two camps:

A: Over bused
- Fauldhouse to Livingston doesn't need a bus every 20mins
- Blackridge to Livingston again doesn't need buses every 20min

B: Strange cuts:
- No link between Armadale - Whitburn ( there is council bus no6: There 30min layover which could be revised to operated an extra round trip)
- Service to Wilkieston ie X23 has been cut to hourly. It still not very fast...
- The link to Queensferry...... Stagecoach provide a much FASTER service to livingston, and there is at least 3 buses per hour between Kirkilston and Queensferry Tesco. The flash point might be Whinchburgh to tesco at SQ

It hard to say but I think overall there is the same number of buses in use. Also watch out because 600 will now terminate at the Airport, just watch the single fare skyrocket because of the Airport rules...

No direct link to Blackburn/Bathgate to bents and West Calder - yet 803 service is supposed to be council tender??? Also 25 is every 15mins between Livingston and Armadale.

I hope someone else has notice the date of the map: effective from 30 July 2018


Some of these changes have been needed for years... Why isnt the 600 numbered "737" while the 23 should really be numbered 28

Also it it would only take one more bus to get the X23 up to every 30mins between Livingston and Hermiston Park n ride...

First Scotland East invites you to join us at our customer roadshow at Livingston Bus Terminal, located between the Livingston Designer Outlet and The Centre on Friday 1st June from 10:00 until 19:00.

We value customer feedback and want to give you the opportunity to have your say on the proposed service changes of our West Lothian network. Please see below for the detailed map of the proposed changes and summaries of the alterations by service and area:

West Lothian Map

* West Lothian Network By Service
* West Lothian Network By Area

Here are the proposed service timetables:

Service 21/22 Service 23/X23 Service 24/25 Service 26 Service 27 Service 600

Please give us your feedback on the network changes via https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/P2B5QJT

 

[Jordan Adam]

Why isnt the 600 numbered "737"

At a guess i'd assume so it ties in with the 100/200/300 numbers TFE use for their Airlink and Skylink services.

 

[overthewater]

737 would be better

West lothian doesn't have alot of money spare for alot of extra work, but I think if enough people complain, they might have some spare pennies for extra runs:

For the people of Wilkieton: Council tender 40/X40 still runs: https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/600093_9b304aee7ea344688e016ab13124b206.pdf So there could ask Horsburgh to operate a few extre jounrys at 20.25 and 21.25 from st johns to Hermiston. in the mornings the 40 runs about after the first no28 so there would only really have to get a bus around 08.20 to fill in gap.

Bathgate - Bent/Addiewell prison: council will just need to put a bus back on.

I bet there will just overhaul No6 within the current scope. Or are first trying to get some money out of the council to extend the No21 to Whitburn?

 

[overthewater]

https://twitter.com/FirstScotland/status/1000388613555802112

Want 50% off bus travel in Central West Lothian

Of course you do! Purchase a FirstDay Adult ticket Mon-Fri after 09:30 & ALL weekend for just £2

This offer is available on bus AND via our mTickets app

http://bit.ly/FSEoffers @LivOutlet

OFFER 2

• FirstDay Adult multi journey ticket in our Zones L & M (Central West Lothian and Edinburgh, see map below) for only £5 per day. This ticket is available on Saturday and Sunday only.

 

[overthewater]

The complaints have already started, including its been like that for 30 years why change it now? well duh... West Lothian of 1987 is completely different to what the current climate is like. Why on earth do the current passengers like the awful Magial Mystery tour all the routes take? Most of the routes are putting off alot of people.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Any major change is going to have complaints, the simple fact of the matter is you can't please everyone.

Locals who support the new changes will stay quiet and let them go ahead where as the ones who dislike them will be very vocal. Hence why quite often you get the false impression that "everyone" hates the new network!

 

[smtglasgow]

Livingston must be a nightmare to serve – the roads seem to twist and turn in all directions. Don’t think I’ve ever driven to the shopping centre without getting lost. But good to see an attempt to simplify without too many cuts. Livingston makes a decent profit doesn’t it, so maybe some decent publicity and a coherent fare offer and things might grow a bit?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Livingston must be a nightmare to serve – the roads seem to twist and turn in all directions. Don’t think I’ve ever driven to the shopping centre without getting lost. But good to see an attempt to simplify without too many cuts. Livingston makes a decent profit doesn’t it, so maybe some decent publicity and a coherent fare offer and things might grow a bit?

Like most new towns, they were/are built around private car use.

 

[overthewater]

Irvine and Glenrothes seems to have a better bus network overall, but of course the towns are built a bit differently.

There are few other linked in improvements including 21/25 providing a 30min service on a sunday between Armdale/Bathgate to Livingston. The biggest complaints is the links to Edinburgh, but the buses are not that busy going into edinburgh, and there not that fast compared to the new train links. Im still surprised the company hasn't tried to go after outer Edinburgh passengers, more from Edinburgh business park or Hemiston gate etc

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Irvine and Glenrothes seems to have a better bus network overall, but of course the towns are built a bit differently.

Know it's veering dangerously o/t but it is striking how many new towns have lost their bus depots and/or original operator (or logical successor). East Kilbride is an obvious one and Cumbernauld (to an extent) but also Peterlee, Skelmersdale, Bracknell, Redditch and Hatfield. Topically, even Corby is now being downgraded.

 

[overthewater]

Glenrothes went the other way and expanded replacing a good bit of Kirkcaldy. Irivne never had a depot and was always a off shot Ardrossan.