First Scotrail and the failed signals

[djw1981]

Tonight, there was a 'total' signal failure between Winchburgh and Linlithgow on the Edinburgh-Glasgow route. It occurred at 2030ish, for the third time in a week, all supposedly weather related. I was on the 2300 ex Edinburgh...and this is where the story starts...FSR played a blinder tonight. Truly they were trying to reduce their
overcrowding problem by putting people off traveling.

2300 ex Edinburgh (no notices about congestions on screen or announcements at Waverley or haymarket according to passengers) got to just beyond Newbridge Junction and stopped at the start of the viaduct. The driver got out to use the SPT. After 20 minutes, passengers banging on the cab door caused him to make an announcement that we were delayed due to signaling problems. The train moved on at walking pace after 45 minutes, running slow to after Linlithgow station before then running normal speed to Glasgow arriving 59 minutes late (just inside the full refund limit).

The passengers had two complaints...bith of which seemed reasonable.

1. The guard made no announcements about the delay except a "Sorry for any inconvenience caused" as the train arrived at Queen St. He went to the front cab soon after we stopped and did not re-appear until Linlithgow station. Two off-duty guards traveling home were left liaising with the front cab then walking through the train and passing out details of the nature and extent of the delay, thus they received most of the flak from passengers. These two off duty staff were in a very difficult position of having to try and defend their colleagues choice not to make more announcements about the delay, or the status of the situation.

2. Why were we even on a train. Several passengers seemed to be making the point that if FSR knew of the problem at 2030, why were we sitting for 45 minutes at 2315, and why had no bustitution been used to get around the problem? Whilst it can be appreciated that buses do not sit on standby and that FSR is a different company to Firstbus, the average passenger will think that some joined up thinking should apply.

According to one of the off duty staff on the train, the issue was politics, that if it was a NR fault, then FSR had to get NR to underwrite the cost of the buses before FSR could hire them in and suspend the service, and that if NR said that trains could pass then FSR could not choose to run buses instead.

All the above was a nice healthy mix, with some added alcohol to create 100 annoyed, (in some cases stressed) passengers at Queen St. The duty station manager there had no compensation forms to hand, and the travel centre was closed, added to which, tehre were no taxis in the rank at 0100 when the train arrived. One might have thought that FSR would have tipped off Glasgow taxi's, given that several passengers might need to get home other than on foot.

 

[me123]

Unusual for FSR to do something this stupid. A bad onboard team is surely to blame for a lot of this. Surely it's unacceptable to just sit at a red signal for 20 minutes without an announcement.

Maybe, however, they were given an "assurance" that the failure would be fixed on time, hence the reason you departed anyway? Well, I can't see there being a huge demand for platforms at this time of night.

 

[djw1981]

Noooooooooooooooo, the problem seems to be absolute block working with staff through teh affected area and a queue of trains going to Glasgow. All the ones from Glasgow / Dunblane being terminated at Polmomt apparently.

The on-train crew did seem to not want to tell us - even a 20 minute delay deserves a 'we are stopped due to signal failure, we do not yet know how long it will be until we are allowed to proceed.'

 

[me123]

Ahh. Still, I'll echo my original feelings of dissapointment. Every FSR delay I've experienced (inculding a half hour wait at Perth for new staff) was always well handled, with fantastic staff who did their best to make up the extra time, apologise ot passengers. Sadly, you've had a particularly bad experience here.

 

[djw1981]

Oh I know, I have done Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk over 250 times in 3 years - roughly once every 4 days - and this was the worst for delays and also for information. You get more announcements on a normal journey.... the guard may be shy, because we only got the "This is the 2300 for Glasgow" at the start not the full "This is the 2300 First Scotrail shuttle service to Glasgow Queen St. This train will call at Haymarket, Linlithgow, Falkirk High, Croy, Lenzie, Bishopbriggs and Glasgow Queen St. First class accommodation can be found at the from and rear of this train. Passenger safety notices are located near the entrances and exits of this train. Please take a moment to read over these notices. Luggage should be stored in the racks provided, and not in the gangway. The next stop will be Haymarket." And at station stops we just got "The next station will be Croy." not the "The next station stop is Croy, please remember to take your bags and personal belongings with you, and mind the gap when alighting from this train. The next station stop: Croy."

Worrying that i know the script.

 

[87015]

control have long gone home by 2300 on a Saturday night....

 

[First ScotRail]

If you were not happy with the service then send in a complaint, however it may just of been the case that the staff were too lazy, my experience with FSR is mixed. Sometimes they will give you a reason and other times they wont.

 

[djw1981]

Oh I plan to complain - 1 hour late = 50% refund on return ticket. Staff behaviour should get me the other half....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

control have long gone home by 2300 on a Saturday night....

So who controls the trains????? What about late night services etc?

 

[me123]

^ Do do it. It's sad to see a good company let down by a few poor staff members. I plan to make a few trips for "business" (interviews and concerts for me) within the next few weeks, and I'm looking forward to the excellent service up to both Dundee and Leuchars.

 

[djw1981]

Excellent service to Dundee & Leuchars... you must be going XC and NXEC then

 

[First ScotRail]

Excellent service to Dundee & Leuchars... you must be going XC and NXEC then

I fully agree with that! , FSR seems to have goen downhill slightly since the notable absense of Mary Dickson, maybe its just in my mind.

 

[djw1981]

When did she go, she signed the latest First Insight...

 

[First ScotRail]

She hasnt gone anywhere as far as I know. Although you notice alot now-a-days Steve Montgomery is being quoted more instead of Mary Dickson.

 

[djw1981]

I assumed thatw as because he is Operations Director and hence responsible for sorting round engineering works etc.. Also as deputy MD, I assume he is being groomed to become an MD elsewhere in the First empire at somepoint?

 

[First ScotRail]

Indeed, for somewhere...but where?

 

[djw1981]

Hmmm given Mary's success in the bid for FGWLink and FSR, could she be off to lead a First bid For Southern when it comes up in 2009?

 

[me123]

Excellent service to Dundee & Leuchars... you must be going XC and NXEC then

The best service I've ever had on a train was on a Wednesday morning. 0742 GQS-Dundee. Friendly staff, service with a smile and a punctual arrival. And of course, a comfy FSR Turbo. And I've had good service à la Virgin and GNER in the past.

Dunno 'bout Leuchars, though. Never been there... Hoping to get a non FSR ride at least one time, though
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hmmm given Mary's success in the bid for FGWLink and FSR, could she be off to lead a First bid For Southern when it comes up in 2009?

She has a face you can trust. Moreso than that guy from NXEC. A trustworthy face is always important in a bid. Her success in FSR also promotes a good image. Hope she ain't leaving, though.

 

[O L Leigh]

1. At least the train was moving. Sure, two members of traincrew should have been able to rustle up some form of PA announcement to let you know what was (and wasn't happening).

On the flipside, having been in just that sort of situation myself one Friday afternoon when it took me 1hr 20mins to traverse a single signal section into the platform I could see just a few hundred yards ahead, you don't often get told much if anything. I was being proactive and bothered both the signaller and control on a regular basis for updates but actually learned very little as a result. Still, at least I was able to demonstrate to the punters that I was doing something.

2. The question of train cancellations under such situations is not so much to do with politics as money. If Nitwit Rail decide that they need to close the line then the TOC has no option but to cancel or divert their services, meaning that the TOC does not become subject to performance penalties. However, if Nitwit Rail decide they don't need to close the line, Nitwit Rail tumbles for the delay minutes caused to the services caught up in all the fun. Even if the delays become sufficiently large to start causing serious disruption, any decision taken by the TOC to cancel any service would be their own decision alone for which they would incur a performance penalty fine.

3. Control should be available 24/7. It may be that there is a scaling down of the staffing during the wee small hours which means that there may be just the one controller for a number of areas instead of one for each, but there should always be someone there at all times to, erm, control things.

one TN

 

[First ScotRail]

3. Control should be available 24/7. It may be that there is a scaling down of the staffing during the wee small hours which means that there may be just the one controller for a number of areas instead of one for each, but there should always be someone there at all times to, erm, control things.

That is the case, control is always there for FSR especially with the sleepers running through the night as well.

 

[P156KWJ]

I find that on a lot of operators, Train crew are of no help at all. Even a PA saying that they ahve no info would be acceptable.

 

[me123]

^ had that many a time, and I personally say it's better than not knowing that your not the noly one that doesn't know if you know what I mean.

 

[O L Leigh]

Making PA's is dependent on having the time to do them.

If you've been stopped at a peg, been given instructions by the signaller or handsignaller (or you are entering a TBW or SLW section) and are busy carrying out these instructions, there isn't any time left to tell the punters what is going on. Therefore, you often only get the chance to make an announcement once you've completed the instructions you've been given, cleared the affected area and are back under normal operating conditions. Even when things are disrupted, the PA is right at the bottom of the list of things to do. It's not ideal and something that the customer service people hate, but there we are. From the traincrew perspective it's safety first.

one TN

 

[djw1981]

But if you are at the peg, surely the Driver has to use SPT to talk to signaller, but the Guard can make the PA announcements?

 

[AlexS]

Not if you don't have a guard.

 

[djw1981]

But on the FSR 170 in question they did. Diesel's don't run DOO up here.

 

[O L Leigh]

To be entirely fair, we don't know the precise details of what happened that night. It could have been that the driver was a newbie and not entirely confident with out-of-course working and needed the guard to hold his hand. In which case, both members of traincrew were busy.

However, I have to agree that, once the driver has told the guard what is happening and the details of any degraded working that will apply to the situation, the guard could have made a quick PA announcement. Telling the natives what you know (even if it is nothing) helps to prevent them getting restless.

one TN

 

[djw1981]

Indeed. - drunken middle aged women is no a good group to be stuck on a train with

I appreciate that both traincrew were busy but even a 30 second announcement every 10 minutes or so along the lines of, "I have spoken to X and there is still no estimate of when we will be moving, engineers are currently working on the problem." takes 30 seconds.

 

[me123]

I agree wuth djw. FSR 170s feature only guard operated doors as far as I'm aware, and therefore a guard is provided on all services. Yes, there is business to do to ensure safety, comfort etc. But an announcement along the lines of:

"I'm sorry to announce that there has been a signal failure on the track ahead. We currently do not have an estimate for departure, and FSR would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused. We will provide further information as soon as it is available".

Would be easy enough to do. Customers get frustrated easily as you can imagine and a little update now and then would be much appreciated I would imagine.

 

[me123]

Update from a few posts ago: I had another ride on a FSR Express service to Aberdeen (a class 170 each way). Many quewstion the level of service on the Aberdeen trains, but once again I found the staff represented their company impeccably.

Travelling north, on the 0941 GQS to Dundee, and train crew were fantastic without exception. Detailed, but not lengthy, announcements. Fantastic. Detailed interchange info. Fantastic. Service with a smile? Yup. Definately one of the best train crew I've travelled with.

The return journey was not as fantastic, but still a good service. My only quibble; why did she leave the trolley at the doors?!?!? Blocking the use of the door at Queen Street was not a great idea, but I question implications of generally poor serrvice on these routes.

From my journeys in my life with FSR, the only complaint was on the return service today and, let's be fair, not much of a quibble really. I must question why people do not like the service, which generally exceeds my expectations.

 

[First ScotRail]

Where else was she to put the trolley? Down the aisle?

Its not that i dont find FSR's service unacceptable but its that sometimes i find their staff very uninterested and not presenting the company in a good manner. The train cleanliness especially on the E and G's is not great, cleaning is very rushed. On longer services its slightly better due to a longer stop at GLQ etc. The 170s also need a refresh in my opinion, carpets are dirty, seat covers and wall paneling (fabric) need renewed as well, especially in 1st class.

FSR excel themselved in the sleeper, where the train is spotless, staff excellent, service excellent and every time ive travelled on it, on time.

Its minor things at FSR for me which let them down, but for me they matter.

Many staff are very well presented and are a credit to the company, however if you notice it always seems to be the older staff? Or is that just me?

And dont get me started on the Glasgow Electrics, they for me are just a disgrace, especially the 334s and 320s come 11 o'clock!

Whereas with the intercity operators the trains are always clean, staff presented well and all round a better service. Unfair to judge them against FSR I know but they do operate on the same routes.