First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[TechDan2002]

Probably worth a longer post as you have asked a few questions on this and related topics. @richw will probably be able to add to this, as and when.

The first examples have obviously arrived and some (37012/3) have already been out in service, still in their old 17 livery with vinyls removed. Some will also be heading through the paintshop but it takes a week per vehicle and then application of vinyls.

However, some points that you really need to remember:

• The new vehicles into Bristol have largely replaced elderly ALX400 B7TLs that have been withdrawn but even then, some have had to be reinstated.
• The next batch of new vehicles will enter service later this week BUT Kernow isn't the only recipient of vehicles from Bristol so no guarantees of what will leave and where for; at least one (and perhaps more) has gone to Essex
• Bristol has its own fleet of very old Tridents and B7TLs - some of the latter are W reg - and as they fail, they may not be repaired and so cascade plans may change in the short term
• There are a complex set of cascades required so that new vehicles can release vehicles onto the Aquae services to release the current X39 fleet allegedly to the 24 where many of the Geminis destined for Kernow currently live AND Bristol is also repainting a large number of vehicles
• Depending on what schools contracts FK win will determine how many vehicles they need. It has been rumoured that they may even need to retain some Tridents but I stress that is pure speculation

The Kernow FB page (and it was posted on here) showed the list of vehicles and most will be released in April but not exactly when.

I know you're keen but it's probably going to be a little while until things are sorted and the cascade is completed.

I’ve heard rumours that 33001 might be here to stay. I certainly hope it’s true!

 

[didbygraham]

'Ownership' of the Transport for Cornwall name though is extremely unlikely to be with the Go-Ahead group, as it would imply they have both applied for and been granted the trademark. If that has happened, that would imo be extraordinary, and would suggest connivance on Cornwall Council's part that will receive a great amount of scrutiny, as they might have to 'buy back' the name when the current arrangement becomes unstuck, for whatever reason. Personally, I find it a typical grandiose gesture by this local authority trying to put themselves up there with Transport for London, Transport for Greater Manchester,etc. Learn to walk before you try to run! You're not even a toddler as yet.

They have given themselves that name as its exactly what they are. They have similar powers as Transport for Manchester etc. which is more than most local authorities have.

Transport for Cornwall is the partnership between Cornwall Council, Go Cornwall Bus and other local public transport providers who are delivering the vision for a high-quality, integrated and customer-focused public transport network. In 2015 the Council signed a Devolution Deal with Government to gain greater powers of governance over public transport. It was also successful in securing £9.5m Local Growth Funding from the Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership to match against its own £2.9m and deliver improvements for passengers in recent years such as upgraded waiting facilities, new vehicles and real time information displays in bus stops across the county. This work was carried out in partnership with local transport operators under the title ‘One Public Transport System for Cornwall’. This has recently been retitled ‘Transport for Cornwall’ and will be formally launched in May 2020.

 

[richw]

I’ve heard rumours that 33001 might be here to stay. I certainly hope it’s true!

exactly that, a rumour.
All president tridents are currently down for leaving....

 

[Lizard1324]

So all alx 400 and plaxton presidents are going. Both painted and unpainted? And what about the east lance tridents?

 

[richw]

what about the east lance tridents?

Just the presidents.

 

[Busaholic]

They have given themselves that name as its exactly what they are. They have similar powers as Transport for Manchester etc. which is more than most local authorities have.

Transport for Cornwall is the partnership between Cornwall Council, Go Cornwall Bus and other local public transport providers who are delivering the vision for a high-quality, integrated and customer-focused public transport network. In 2015 the Council signed a Devolution Deal with Government to gain greater powers of governance over public transport. It was also successful in securing £9.5m Local Growth Funding from the Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership to match against its own £2.9m and deliver improvements for passengers in recent years such as upgraded waiting facilities, new vehicles and real time information displays in bus stops across the county. This work was carried out in partnership with local transport operators under the title ‘One Public Transport System for Cornwall’. This has recently been retitled ‘Transport for Cornwall’ and will be formally launched in May 2020.

It's not Go-Ahead or whatever subsidiary that has given itself that name, though, which was the point I was making: GCB has been invited to the party for eight years, but may choose to leave after four, and who knows what may happen in the meantime to break the party up? It's a bit like footballers or football managers signing long-term contracts that are almost certainly going to be broken by one party or the other before the end date.

I read all the components of the Transport for Cornwall link, thanks. Having a wife who had a successful career in corporate PR, I'm quite used to wading through press releases, which is what this is, essentially, and reading between lines.

On the comparison with the powers granted to Greater Manchester, etc, I've no desire to look into all the detail, but will merely observe that TfGM owns and controls the seven lines that make up Metrolink and the infrastructure including the trams, though it contracts out the actual running of the trams. Cornwall Council owns a handful of buses which it leases to its favourite operator of the moment, and a motley selection of bus stations, and is basically run from County Hall in Truro. Its my opinion (and I freely admit to being highly opinionated on topics that interest me and that I've studied) that the 'devolution deal' was everything to do with being a 'thank you' to those Cornwall residents who voted out all those LibDem MPs and allowed D.Cameron the surprise of leading a government with an overall majority.

I

 

[richw]

GCB has been invited to the party for eight years, but may choose to leave after four, and who knows what may happen in the meantime to break the party up

There will be performance targets in the contract that could see them stripped if CC is competent in their contracts

 

[Lizard1324]

Just the presidents.

That's a shame the alx 400 is a very nice bus with some on the trident still in good condition where as the east lance trident are very unreliable and only 1 running on the lizard peninsula atm

 

[jammy36]

They have given themselves that name as its exactly what they are. They have similar powers as Transport for Manchester etc. which is more than most local authorities have.

Transport for Cornwall is the partnership between Cornwall Council, Go Cornwall Bus and other local public transport providers who are delivering the vision for a high-quality, integrated and customer-focused public transport network. In 2015 the Council signed a Devolution Deal with Government to gain greater powers of governance over public transport. It was also successful in securing £9.5m Local Growth Funding from the Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership to match against its own £2.9m and deliver improvements for passengers in recent years such as upgraded waiting facilities, new vehicles and real time information displays in bus stops across the county. This work was carried out in partnership with local transport operators under the title ‘One Public Transport System for Cornwall’. This has recently been retitled ‘Transport for Cornwall’ and will be formally launched in May 2020.

Is the bit in bold still that relevant? The headline transport measure in the Devolution Deal was giving Cornwall Council powers to franchise bus services, but this power has not been taken up (and seemingly unlikely to do so). Indeed most of the transport "outcomes" highlighted in the council's own Devolution Deal Impact Assessment seem to be a result of other funding streams or private investment by the bus companies themselves.

The Devolution Deal was also to "deliver integrated smart ticketing, fares and timetables. This will enable combined travel between bus, rail and ferry services, and cashless transactions". I am not sure given the issues around inter-ticketing, timetables, etc that this new contract raises that the Council can claim to have met this objective?

 

[Busaholic]

Is the bit in bold still that relevant? The headline transport measure in the Devolution Deal was giving Cornwall Council powers to franchise bus services, but this power has not been taken up (and seemingly unlikely to do so). Indeed most of the transport "outcomes" highlighted in the council's own Devolution Deal Impact Assessment seem to be a result of other funding streams or private investment by the bus companies themselves.

The Devolution Deal was also to "deliver integrated smart ticketing, fares and timetables. This will enable combined travel between bus, rail and ferry services, and cashless transactions". I am not sure given the issues around inter-ticketing, timetables, etc that this new contract raises that the Council can claim to have met this objective?

Well put!

 

[Whiteway215]

If all that is true (and I'm in no way implying it's not) then it's very concerning indeed.

On a personal level, though I'd love to get 'stuck in' with councillors, etc, on all this, my life at present revolves round various health matters, partly my own but mainly of my wife, and my natural interest in all this has to be tempered by reality e.g. this time two nights ago my wife was emerging from the operating theatre in Treliske. So, all power to your various elbows, but I'm obliged to take a back seat. Coming on here now is my welcome distraction from the bad news seemingly emanating from all quarters of the world.

Wishing you both well at this time

 

[Lizard1324]

Anyone seen 33111 - PJ02 PZP lately, broke down on the 251 on the 6th feb, wondering if they are not going to repair it?

 

[83G/84D]

It was on view at Camborne along with 33113 which is also broken.

 

[Lizard1324]

It was on view at Camborne along with 33113 which is also broken.

Do you think they will be scrapped of repaired

 

[iantherev]

Probably worth a longer post as you have asked a few questions on this and related topics. @richw will probably be able to add to this, as and when.

The first examples have obviously arrived and some (37012/3) have already been out in service, still in their old 17 livery with vinyls removed. Some will also be heading through the paintshop but it takes a week per vehicle and then application of vinyls.

However, some points that you really need to remember:

• The new vehicles into Bristol have largely replaced elderly ALX400 B7TLs that have been withdrawn but even then, some have had to be reinstated.
• The next batch of new vehicles will enter service later this week BUT Kernow isn't the only recipient of vehicles from Bristol so no guarantees of what will leave and where for; at least one (and perhaps more) has gone to Essex
• Bristol has its own fleet of very old Tridents and B7TLs - some of the latter are W reg - and as they fail, they may not be repaired and so cascade plans may change in the short term
• There are a complex set of cascades required so that new vehicles can release vehicles onto the Aquae services to release the current X39 fleet allegedly to the 24 where many of the Geminis destined for Kernow currently live AND Bristol is also repainting a large number of vehicles
• Depending on what schools contracts FK win will determine how many vehicles they need. It has been rumoured that they may even need to retain some Tridents but I stress that is pure speculation

The Kernow FB page (and it was posted on here) showed the list of vehicles and most will be released in April but not exactly when.

I know you're keen but it's probably going to be a little while until things are sorted and the cascade is completed.

Also, if COV-19 starts affecting staff availability and agency/recovery vehicle drivers, shifting buses between companies is possibly going to drop to the bottom of the list of priorities.

 

[83G/84D]

Do you think they will be scrapped of repaired

No idea,sorry. I suspect not given that newer vehicles are arriving but I suppose it depends on when the replacements arrive and the seriousness of the defects. Finally I suppose it depends on what service levels are operating in the coming weeks. That's just a guess and not based on any information I have.

 

[Lizard1324]

Well considering schools are likely to close soon they will need less buses

 

[Nickincornwall]

It says it’s a partnership of PCB, ots, hopleys, Summercourt on one page.
Then at the bottom it says it’s part of the Go Ahead group.

The Transport for Cornwall branding was wanted by the Council and they have possibly provided for this branding in the contracts. Whether First adopt the branding is a matter for a discussion between them and the Council for their commercial services.

A good example is on the West Midlands where the branding is West Midland Buses and where some Black Country routes which are commercial are jointly operated by National Express and Diamond (the Rotala company) The next service to joint that stable is the 40. The buses are in the same colour with West Midlands Buses as the fleet name but the legal lettering is the operating companies. Joint timetables are produced and on both websites, ticket acceptance inter availability is prevalent but each company must register with the traffic commissioner their own journeys. This is the brave new world of the West Midlands Mayor Andy Street.
This arrangement is good for the operators, passengers and the Intergrated Passenger Authority. The question is if First would enter into such an arrangement anywhere

 

[Nickincornwall]

It might also depend on T&Cs for students when they took it out. They’re designed for use on the college buses and if it’s a goodwill thing letting them on service buses. If it’s specifically for service buses it’s effectively a Season ticket for the service buses, and that changes things

It is a goodwill gesture if you look at the college website

 

[Lizard1324]

They said that a gemini takes a week to paint and vinyl added, so guessing the first one is done?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They said that a gemini takes a week to paint and vinyl added, so guessing the first one is done?

Might not be so much of a priority at the moment.

 

[83G/84D]

37013 seen on a T2 in Camborne this afternoon.

 

[TechDan2002]

Truro College closed from Friday so no 200 series services next week

 

[Bazer]

They said that a gemini takes a week to paint and vinyl added, so guessing the first one is done?

32638 was collected today from the paint shop and returned to Camborne for vinyls to be added, 32637 was dropped off at the Paint shop in return.

 

[Lizard1324]

32638 was collected today from the paint shop and returned to Camborne for vinyls to be added, 32637 was dropped off at the Paint shop in return.

Any images?
Or what colour is it.

 

[Bazer]

Any images?
Or what colour is it.

32638 is supposed to be replacing 33147 Go Cornish trident that caught fire

 

[83G/84D]

32638 was collected today from the paint shop and returned to Camborne for vinyls to be added, 32637 was dropped off at the Paint shop in return.

Any images?
Or what colour is it.

I saw it in Camborne an hour ago. It's green at the front and the rest is black. Will post a photo sometime tomorrow.

 

[Bazer]

32637 prior to heading off for reprint.

 

[Lizard1324]

32637 prior to heading off for reprint.

That badly need painting if looks very tired
Did see a maroon front Gemini on the u4 on Tuesday and didnt realise they have so much damage and had been beaten in Bristol was very nice to ride though

 

[83G/84D]

32637 prior to heading off for reprint.

Reprint!?