First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Goldfish62]

Definitely we all have our locations wether ideal or not, Bodmin I use to use Morrisons when using the 27, Penzance the railway station and so on

Falmouth thankfully got rid of the 20p charge for their toilets, only Penzance and St Mawes I know of that still charge, shame toilets have never taken off on buses although would be tricky going on our roads!

The problem with Penzance is that the bus station is one of the main gathering points for the local druggies and the charge keeps them out of the toilets.

 

[MB162435]

The problem with Penzance is that the bus station is one of the main gathering points for the local druggies and the charge keeps them out of the toilets.

Perfectly understandable really, and they are kept in pretty good condition compared to others although they use to be free during the Winter not sure if that's still the case, bet they make a fortune during a normal summer season tho, Camborne bus station's male toilets on the other hand consisted of a urinal and a tap if I remember correctly, so hopefully First improves them eventually even if it's just some soap and a hand dryer!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Perfectly understandable really, and they are kept in pretty good condition compared to others although they use to be free during the Winter not sure if that's still the case, bet they make a fortune during a normal summer season tho, Camborne bus station's male toilets on the other hand consisted of a urinal and a tap if I remember correctly, so hopefully First improves them eventually even if it's just some soap and a hand dryer!

A few years back, me and the better half were in Newquay. I went into the bus station toilets there and the stench of stale urine could've peeled paint. A couple of days later and we were in Camborne bus station waiting for our pre-Tinner era bus to Penzance and we both popped into the toilets. The gents were ok but my other half reported the ladies were dreadful.

It would, of course, be good if they improved Camborne but I get it that it's not FK's job to provide public toilets and that depending on future plans, any improvements might have a short life.

 

[MB162435]

A few years back, me and the better half were in Newquay. I went into the bus station toilets there and the stench of stale urine could've peeled paint. A couple of days later and we were in Camborne bus station waiting for our pre-Tinner era bus to Penzance and we both popped into the toilets. The gents were ok but my other half reported the ladies were dreadful.

It would, of course, be good if they improved Camborne but I get it that it's not FK's job to provide public toilets and that depending on future plans, any improvements might have a short life.

Haven't seen what the toilets are like at Newquay Bus Station now under TfC control but one would hope an improvement

Definitely the rumours around the future of Camborne Bus Station are likely to have prevented any major investment, and as you say First's job is to run buses not toilets so even a public backlash wouldn't mean any improvement, many would rather see First's investment going into buses and services rather than toilets

Covid certainly has meant any improvements in the facilities at Camborne and many other places will likely be slipping even further down the list of Kernow's and many other companies priorities

 

[richw]

Haven't seen what the toilets are like at Newquay Bus Station now under TfC control but one would hope an improvement

The cleaning of Newquay bus station and facilities is contracted to Cornwall council facilities cleaning team under both the First tenure and the new TFC tenure.

 

[MB162435]

The cleaning of Newquay bus station and facilities is contracted to Cornwall council facilities cleaning team under both the First tenure and the new TFC tenure.

So the standard will likely stay the same whether good or bad

 

[jammy36]

Definitely the rumours around the future of Camborne Bus Station are likely to have prevented any major investment, and as you say First's job is to run buses not toilets so even a public backlash wouldn't mean any improvement, many would rather see First's investment going into buses and services rather than toilets

The trouble is those rumours around redevelopment have been circulating for a long while and the toilets have been needing attention for longer still.

Whilst I can understand such a justification where there is a clear redevelopment plan in place (planning permission secured, notified date to vacate, etc) I don't think that's ever been the case for Camborne bus station?

The bus station was identified for redevelopment at least as far back as 2006 - if the toilets had been refurbished then they'd now be 14 years old - and probably be due another refresh now!! I don't see the redevelopment as being any more imminent now than it was in 2006?

I can understand, but nevertheless find disappointing the attitude that "First's job is to run buses not toilets" - technically true, but you'd not find that attitude at Sainsbury's or Tesco.

Dirty toilets reinforce the impression that buses are only for those who can't afford a car (or the train) - certainly they don't suggest a service that you'd choose/aspire to use. In the post Covid world selling public transport is likely to be challenging enough without facilities that would actively put people off. Would no toilets be better for First than bad toilets?

 

[richw]

Camborne bus station has NO public toilets

 

[Busaholic]

So the standard will likely stay the same whether good or bad

I really do think that with all the money sloshing around to encourage much better use of bus travel, and given it's channelled through Cornwall Council. things like printed timetables and other information, as well as sanitary public conveniences at major termini, should not be considered as luxury items that can't be provided. If the will is there, they can be. I realise that with the current circumstances some aspects of the exercise have not kicked in e.g. the low fare element for travel within a town but, even so, I don't think WCs were ever on the agenda or near to it. Time for a rethink if this is not to prove a costly exercise showing there's not much stomach for bus travel except amongst the elderly and/or desperate.

Re the 20p Pz toilets, my friend Emma who used to run the little fresh fish shop at the bottom of Albert Street and who relied on the loos to combine with her fag break used to regale me with stories about the goings on there, with regular police 'visits' and, two or three times a year, the whole area cordoned off, including the bus station, if death or serious injury was discovered there. Only last autumn when I went for fish there were three police cars and a police van present, with no other traffic allowed past, and she told me it had been like that for about 90 minutes. It is a recognised point for food provision for the homeless during early evenings, so will be a magnet for junkies, who haven't disappeared from the streets altogether during Coronavirus regardless of what the official position is.

 

[MB162435]

The trouble is those rumours around redevelopment have been circulating for a long while and the toilets have been needing attention for longer still.

Whilst I can understand such a justification where there is a clear redevelopment plan in place (planning permission secured, notified date to vacate, etc) I don't think that's ever been the case for Camborne bus station?

The bus station was identified for redevelopment at least as far back as 2006 - if the toilets had been refurbished then they'd now be 14 years old - and probably be due another refresh now!! I don't see the redevelopment as being any more imminent now than it was in 2006?

I can understand, but nevertheless find disappointing the attitude that "First's job is to run buses not toilets" - technically true, but you'd not find that attitude at Sainsbury's or Tesco.

Dirty toilets reinforce the impression that buses are only for those who can't afford a car (or the train) - certainly they don't suggest a service that you'd choose/aspire to use. In the post Covid world selling public transport is likely to be challenging enough without facilities that would actively put people off. Would no toilets be better for First than bad toilets?

None of us can dispute how fantastic the turnaround of Kernow has been in the last 10 years or so, but Camborne Bus Station is still stuck in First's Devon and Cornwall days like a time capsule of how things use to be, run down and not an enjoyable place to wait which is pretty bad for a place which is Kernow's headquarters

Kernow's customer service reputation is pretty brilliant for a bus operator, and they do put a lot of care and attention in to making a customer's experience of their services as good as possible, but it doesn't seem to include toilets which is a real shame, after all the attention into all the other bus stations facilities

Yes Camborne isn't Cornwall's grandest or most scenic place to visit but there is no need for the bus station to reflect that, if Camborne bus station was your first interaction with Kernow it wouldn't be a good first impression at all

 

[MB162435]

I really do think that with all the money sloshing around to encourage much better use of bus travel, and given it's channelled through Cornwall Council. things like printed timetables and other information, as well as sanitary public conveniences at major termini, should not be considered as luxury items that can't be provided. If the will is there, they can be. I realise that with the current circumstances some aspects of the exercise have not kicked in e.g. the low fare element for travel within a town but, even so, I don't think WCs were ever on the agenda or near to it. Time for a rethink if this is not to prove a costly exercise showing there's not much stomach for bus travel except amongst the elderly and/or desperate.

Re the 20p Pz toilets, my friend Emma who used to run the little fresh fish shop at the bottom of Albert Street and who relied on the loos to combine with her fag break used to regale me with stories about the goings on there, with regular police 'visits' and, two or three times a year, the whole area cordoned off, including the bus station, if death or serious injury was discovered there. Only last autumn when I went for fish there were three police cars and a police van present, with no other traffic allowed past, and she told me it had been like that for about 90 minutes. It is a recognised point for food provision for the homeless during early evenings, so will be a magnet for junkies, who haven't disappeared from the streets altogether during Coronavirus regardless of what the official position is.

I have quite often been bombarded by Beggers at Penzance bus station and gangs of youths are always hanging around, which when you have hundreds of tourists passing through the bus and train station isn't portraying Cornwall in a very good light at all, and not helping temp tourists to stay in the town and spend

I'm assuming the staff quarters have toilets as otherwise the 20p's would certainly start stacking up, it's a shame the toilets aren't included as part of the transport hub but instead an extra

I try to ignore it myself but I expect many will find behaviour and situations like you mentioned very intimidating and potentially frightening, which isn't helping encourage transport use when happening at a bus station

 

[MB162435]

Camborne bus station has NO public toilets

Which wasn't going down well with many passengers when I was waiting for the 42 at Camborne the other day, many telling the staff that they should be open

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Camborne bus station has NO public toilets

Have they closed then? It's been a couple of years and I've avoided Camborne the last few times I've been down. The ones I recall were certainly rather poor.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I try to ignore it myself but I expect many will find behaviour and situations like you mentioned very intimidating and potentially frightening, which isn't helping encourage transport use when happening at a bus station

TBH, in the black and white days, bus station toilets were always dreadful. I remember some places that were absolutely awful. Such places were always intimidating though I suspect the "behaviour" was more John Gielgud than Pete Doherty.

 

[MB162435]

TBH, in the black and white days, bus station toilets were always dreadful. I remember some places that were absolutely awful. Such places were always intimidating though I suspect the "behaviour" was more John Gielgud than Pete Doherty.

Unfortunately it will never change, I really hope it does but unlikely

You can see which ones will do it to public conveniences after seeing the state of school and college toilets over the years, the ones who start doing it sadly will always ruin facilities wherever they go

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Unfortunately it will never change, I really hope it does but unlikely

You can see which ones will do it to public conveniences after seeing the state of school and college toilets over the years, the ones who start doing it sadly will always ruin facilities wherever they go

To be honest, the state of bus stations has generally improved over the last 30 years and so have the wider facilities in the main.

Whilst I visited them, the memories of Cornish ones are a little hazy from the mid 1990s. St Austell's old one had a travel office but don't think it had anything else so the current set up is probably better. Truro's old bus station/depot had a travel shop too; it may have had toilets but perhaps they were closed. Newquay had the cute little office but can't recall much else.

As you say, you could put a fleet of badgers and flags VRs, Mercs and Darts in Camborne and easily recreate a scene from the mid 1990s.

 

[MB162435]

To be honest, the state of bus stations has generally improved over the last 30 years and so have the wider facilities in the main.

Whilst I visited them, the memories of Cornish ones are a little hazy from the mid 1990s. St Austell's old one had a travel office but don't think it had anything else so the current set up is probably better. Truro's old bus station/depot had a travel shop too; it may have had toilets but perhaps they were closed. Newquay had the cute little office but can't recall much else.

As you say, you could put a fleet of badgers and flags VRs, Mercs and Darts in Camborne and easily recreate a scene from the mid 1990s.

The state of bus stations has certainly improved in the last few years in particular Truro bus station which has really been improved and a enjoyable place to wait now after much needed TLC

Sometimes I wonder if the VR rally day should be held in Camborne instead of Penzance, would really be replicating Cornwall's bus scene of the past

 

[richw]

Which wasn't going down well with many passengers when I was waiting for the 42 at Camborne the other day, many telling the staff that they should be open

Have they closed then? It's been a couple of years and I've avoided Camborne the last few times I've been down. The ones I recall were certainly rather poor.

There are no longer any toilets for passenger use, and no intention on there being any in future. They’ve been closed for some years.

Camborne bus station is getting a revamp imminently, the design team have been down this week.

 

[MB162435]

There are no longer any toilets for passenger use, and no intention on there being any in future. They’ve been closed for some years.

Camborne bus station is getting a revamp imminently, the design team have been down this week.

They were open when I was there in October, and have been every time I've been there during the day

Good news about the potential refurbishment, much needed

 

[Busaholic]

To be honest, the state of bus stations has generally improved over the last 30 years and so have the wider facilities in the main.

Whilst I visited them, the memories of Cornish ones are a little hazy from the mid 1990s. St Austell's old one had a travel office but don't think it had anything else so the current set up is probably better. Truro's old bus station/depot had a travel shop too; it may have had toilets but perhaps they were closed. Newquay had the cute little office but can't recall much else.

As you say, you could put a fleet of badgers and flags VRs, Mercs and Darts in Camborne and easily recreate a scene from the mid 1990s.

Truro bus station has a Cornwall Council toilet block yards away from the exit, with another one less than a quarter a mile away at the other end of Lemon Quay, plus (when the stores are open) the superior ones in M&S and Caffe Nero.

 

[Lizard1324]

Just a thought do kernow have and new buses in the plan, also is there a maximum age for the truro p+r becuase with the new 8 year contract the newer the 15 plate buses will be 13 years old and the 08 and 10 plate citaros will be 20 and 18 years old come end of contract.
The P+R would also be a good place to start for the first electric buses in kernow

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just a thought do kernow have and new buses in the plan, also is there a maximum age for the truro p+r becuase with the new 8 year contract the newer the 15 plate buses will be 13 years old and the 08 and 10 plate citaros will be 20 and 18 years old come end of contract.
The P+R would also be a good place to start for the first electric buses in kernow

Good question. In the excitement of the TfC award/debacle and Covid, I'd quite forgotten about FK retaining the P&R Perhaps @richw can confirm but perhaps CC will supply the vehicles for FK to operate?

 

[Lizard1324]

Good question. In the excitement of the TfC award/debacle and Covid, I'd quite forgotten about FK retaining the P&R Perhaps @richw can confirm but perhaps CC will supply the vehicles for FK to operate?

It would be interesting if cornwall Council did want newer buses and likely want electric, if they did it would be cool to see something different like a volvo 7900 electric, yotong e12, wright streetair, man City e, E-citaro. All these are diffrent and would be intresting buses but likely if they were to be electric it would be a optare or byd/ADL electric.

 

[richw]

The contract for the park and ride is that Cornwall council supply the vehicles. That one is out of the contractors hands

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The contract for the park and ride is that Cornwall council supply the vehicles. That one is out of the contractors hands

Thank you for that.

Has there been mention that these will be electric (or biogas or hydrogen) or are we speculating?

 

[richw]

Thank you for that.

Has there been mention that these will be electric (or biogas or hydrogen) or are we speculating?

I’ve heard nothing about any being planned.
I can’t remember what propulsion the Yutong demonstrator that was here was, or if it was deemed a success

 

[Westnat]

I’ve heard nothing about any being planned.
I can’t remember what propulsion the Yutong demonstrator that was here was, or if it was deemed a success

The Yutong was an electric bus and is now with Newport Transport in South wales.

 

[GBM]

The Yutong was an electric bus and is now with Newport Transport in South wales.

There was talk during the bidding process of FK taking the Mercs off, and replacing with 9 brand new deckers of Cornwall Council build.
That doesn't seem to have happened.
It was also understood from the Council that P&R has no budget, so everything is done on a shoestring.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There was talk during the bidding process of FK taking the Mercs off, and replacing with 9 brand new deckers of Cornwall Council build.
That doesn't seem to have happened.
It was also understood from the Council that P&R has no budget, so everything is done on a shoestring.

Perhaps leasing but then that would push you towards Euro VI diesels rather than any alternative power

I’ve heard nothing about any being planned.
I can’t remember what propulsion the Yutong demonstrator that was here was, or if it was deemed a success

Cheers for that. I recall the demo but not whether alternative power was announced as part of the tender package or award.

 

[MB162435]

33302 back out in service today, interestingly on the A1-3 circuit