First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Goldfish62]

I assume that will help the purge of B7TLs from First, and at 15/16 years, have little book value left on them. The real downside is that I think they've never had any internal refurb (unless someone can clarify); quite a number of the B7TLs that arrived in 2020 had been refurbished in Glasgow and Bristol and those that hadn't, were retrimmed IIRC.

Don't know whether any refurbishment has ever been done. If it hasn't I can't see it happening in these lean times for what's going to be another 4-5 years life at the most.

Some of the B7TLs in Cornwall are now 20 years old and a couple 21 years old. As a driver remarked on Facebook they've had it and most smell like mushroom farms internally.

 

[mic]

Unconfirmed reports of 30 B9TLs heading to Cornwall from Oldham at the end of March to displace most of the B7TLs. Unfortunately they're early examples no younger than the B7TLs were when they arrived in Cornwall. Also, most are in Olympia livery and it remains to be seen whether they'll be repainted.

There are 58 and 09 reg ones at Oldham. They've got 4 ex York ones as well. Some of them sound tired these days and all are Euro 6 spec.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Don't know whether any refurbishment has ever been done. If it hasn't I can't see it happening in these lean times for what's going to be another 4-5 years life at the most.

Some of the B7TLs in Cornwall are now 20 years old and a couple 21 years old. As a driver remarked on Facebook they've had it and most smell like mushroom farms internally.

The old ones are the open toppers. Of the closed tops, there's two that are short wheelbase that are needed for a tight turn at Malpas (?) and they're 20 years old. The others are marginally newer - the oldest of those were new in Nov 2004 whilst some are 2007 vintage.

TBH, Cornwall has always been the home of superannuated deckers. Remember how old the VRs were when they finally came off Even in NBC days, to get rid of crew operated FLFs, they got some very pre-enjoyed Atlanteans.

 

[Accelerator59]

58 and 09 reg ones at Oldham they got 4 ex York ones aswell some of them sound tried these days and all are Euro 6 spec

They’ll probably be the 58 plates as there are 30 of them and around a dozen or so 09 plates plus the ex-York ones you mentioned.

 

[mic]

They’ll probably be the 58 plates as there are 30 of them and around a dozen or so 09 plates plus the ex-York ones you mentioned.

In total there are 22 09-plate ones.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They’ll probably be the 58 plates as there are 30 of them and around a dozen or so 09 plates plus the ex-York ones you mentioned.

in total 22 09 regs ones

Could be a mix especially as some other OpCos may well be in the market e.g. Essex

 

[Whiteway215]

Looking on BusTimes for First Kernow I see there are just under 50 B7TLs listed as in service so with 30 B9 replacements there would still be around 20 B7TL survivors.

 

[Goldfish62]

Looking on BusTimes for First Kernow I see there are just under 50 B7TLs listed as in service so with 30 B9 replacements there would still be around 20 B7TL survivors.

Indeed, although there may be more currently in the fleet than would normally required for PVR + spares to cover for an increasingly unreliable fleet of B7s.

 

[cnjb8]

Looking on BusTimes for First Kernow I see there are just under 50 B7TLs listed as in service so with 30 B9 replacements there would still be around 20 B7TL survivors.

Indeed, although there may be more currently in the fleet than would normally required for PVR + spares to cover for an increasingly unreliable fleet of B7s.

Also there may be B9's displaced by new Electroliners at Leeds and Norwich

 

[Andyh82]

I assume that will help the purge of B7TLs from First, and at 15/16 years, have little book value left on them. The real downside is that I think they've never had any internal refurb (unless someone can clarify); quite a number of the B7TLs that arrived in 2020 had been refurbished in Glasgow and Bristol and those that hadn't, were retrimmed IIRC.

Ideally if any B7TLs have been retrimmed, couldn’t they swap the seats with those worn out ones in the B9TLs? The seats are identical are they not?

 

[EnviroExplorer]

Ideally if any B7TLs have been retrimmed, couldn’t they swap the seats with those worn out ones in the B9TLs? The seats are identical are they not?

Sadly this wasn’t done on buses with retrimmed seats that have been scrapped already, including some B7TLs, so one is doubtful they’d do it this time.

A real shame to see how standards have slipped at Kernow, the refurbishment and repaints done on the B7TLs lifted a few years off them cosmetically, but now it’s seemingly back to down at heel cast offs with no effort to tidy them up.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Also there may be B9's displaced by new Electroliners at Leeds and Norwich

First Eastern Counties have their own B7TLs to get shot of including some very mature examples!

 

[richw]

Unconfirmed reports of 30 B9TLs heading to Cornwall from Oldham at the end of March to displace most of the B7TLs. Unfortunately they're early examples no younger than the B7TLs were when they arrived in Cornwall. Also, most are in Olympia livery and it remains to be seen whether they'll be repainted.

The person who first posted it on Facebook will be in the know, and can be taken as factual.

Looking on BusTimes for First Kernow I see there are just under 50 B7TLs listed as in service so with 30 B9 replacements there would still be around 20 B7TL survivors.

They’ve surrendered approx 10 school services from February half term, reducing requirement

 

[OptareOlympus]

What is the split of B7TL Geminis in Cornwall between MK1 and MK2/ I'd imagine 30 would easily see off all the MK1s. The MK2 are basically B9TLs anyway with the B7 engine.

 

[Goldfish62]

What is the split of B7TL Geminis in Cornwall between MK1 and MK2/ I'd imagine 30 would easily see off all the MK1s. The MK2 are basically B9TLs anyway with the B7 engine.

Given that Mk2 production started mid 2004 only a couple are older than that.

 

[richw]

What is the split of B7TL Geminis in Cornwall between MK1 and MK2/ I'd imagine 30 would easily see off all the MK1s. The MK2 are basically B9TLs anyway with the B7 engine.

Only 2 are mk1 the rest mk2

 

[Accelerator59]

In total there are 22 09-plate ones.

More than I thought, thanks for that!

 

[buscoaster]

With no allocated vehicle yet, and observed low passenger numbers in previous years, rumour has it that the Falmouth Coaster may not return this year. This just rumour I emphasise, but what would people suggest could be a good way to give it a boost (route changes etc) in order to increase patronage?

 

[Goldfish62]

With no allocated vehicle yet, and observed low passenger numbers in previous years, rumour has it that the Falmouth Coaster may not return this year. This just rumour I emphasise, but what would people suggest could be a good way to give it a boost (route changes etc) in order to increase patronage?

The other rumour is that given that the Southsea Coaster B9TL has just turned up at Camborne that'll be the new allocated vehicle.

There are still also six unbranded vehicles, two in Sunseeker yellow and four in unbranded Coaster.

 

[Busaholic]

In a small queue on Chyandour Cliff in Penzance at the temporary lights at lunchtime were two T1s and a U4, all d/d. The first T1 got through the first green, the others on the next. Needless to say, probably, but each bore completely different liveries, only one of which was correct for the allocation.

 

[co-tr-paul]

Photos of the ex Southsea " Proper " open top have already appeared on fb.

And yes, route branding is useless ... !

 

[fgwrich]

The other rumour is that given that the Southsea Coaster B9TL has just turned up at Camborne that'll be the new allocated vehicle.

There are still also six unbranded vehicles, two in Sunseeker yellow and four in unbranded Coaster.

So I wonder if that means First have given up the Southsea Coaster then? Shame if so.

 

[Goldfish62]

So I wonder if that means First have given up the Southsea Coaster then? Shame if so.

It was financially supported by the council. Clearly not at all commercially viable.

 

[buscoaster]

I think they have given up on Southsea and Falmouth to be honest

 

[83G/84D]

I think they have given up on Southsea and Falmouth to be honest

The adventures by bus website says both will return in spring 2024. To be honest I am not sure when that page was put up however things do change and I guess we will have to wait and see what happens to the network for this year.

Adventures By Bus | First Bus

Our UK Bus division operates around a fifth of local bus services in the UK and is one of the largest bus operators with a fleet of approximately 6,400 buses around the England, Scotland and Wales. We have bus routes serving 40 of the UK’s largest towns and cities providing great value public...

www.firstbus.co.uk

 

[Goldfish62]

The adventures by bus website says both will return in spring 2024. To be honest I am not sure when that page was put up however things do change and I guess we will have to wait and see what happens to the network for this year.

The Adventures by Bus website is notoriously inaccurate and out of date most of the time.

 

[Busaholic]

The Adventures by Bus website is notoriously inaccurate and out of date most of the time.

A week in the bus world is as long as one in politics....

 

[richw]

The Adventures by Bus website is notoriously inaccurate and out of date most of the time.

I wonder if we will still see the enthusiasm from within the company towards the Adventures By Bus branding and projects. All of the management behind ABB have left the business, and the current incumbents don’t seem to have the passion of the predecessors and it looks like an accountants business right now. Everything is about the pound. Marc m-Huws had passion and enthusiasm for the industry as well as experience, and performed the marketing side very well. That element seems to have been lost now.

 

[Goldfish62]

I wonder if we will still see the enthusiasm from within the company towards the Adventures By Bus branding and projects. All of the management behind ABB have left the business, and the current incumbents don’t seem to have the passion of the predecessors and it looks like an accountants business right now. Everything is about the pound. Marc m-Huws had passion and enthusiasm for the industry as well as experience, and performed the marketing side very well. That element seems to have been lost now.

Well indeed. Marc Huw's replacement has no prior public transport experience and all we've seen from him to date is cuts. Whether it's because he thinks that's the way to go or he's being told from above to cut I don't know. Certainly as far as Cornwall is concerned it feels like we're back in the Lockhead era.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wonder if we will still see the enthusiasm from within the company towards the Adventures By Bus branding and projects. All of the management behind ABB have left the business, and the current incumbents don’t seem to have the passion of the predecessors and it looks like an accountants business right now. Everything is about the pound. Marc m-Huws had passion and enthusiasm for the industry as well as experience, and performed the marketing side very well. That element seems to have been lost now.

I think you've answered your own question.

I don't think Simon Goff and the team are bad people. However, Alex Carter and Marc Morgan-Huws were clearly very committed to the growth and marketing of the Kernow business. That's an important distinction - never felt Somerset had quite the focus. Clearly under their control, they were prepared to experiment much more. Some of those were very successful - Atlantic and Exmoor Coasters - but some were not. I was very unsure about the Lizard network and the open toppers. Similarly, DayTripper was another idea that had some fundamental flaws.

Still, I'd hope to see them properly market and manage the remaining Coasters in 2024 (Falmouth arguably being the weakest of the services) as yes, the mojo seems to have left with MMH. Arguably, the focus on marketing went too far with too many liveries and brands in a network/operation that demands levels of interworking etc to cycle vehicles through depots.