First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Andyh82]

Spot on.

IIRC, Stagecoach only submitted bids for North and East Cornwall, whilst First only submitted bids for lots in their existing areas (so not NE or SE Cornwall). It was only Go Ahead that submitted a single all-encompassing bid for everything.

I guess that First will be thinking that they can sharpen their pencil. Again, and apologise as it was 6 years ago so the memory is jaded, but I think that First actually were cheaper on those lots that they submitted against but lost out on the quality assessment. Fast forward to now and their Cornwall College work was lost on price despite them being best on the quality assessment.

On that note, before the initial version of Go Cornwall was set up in the late 2010s, who used to run the services in East Cornwall?

 

[MarkC]

On that note, before the initial version of Go Cornwall was set up in the late 2010s, who used to run the services in East Cornwall?

First Plymouth I believe in the main with the odd Western Greyhound

 

[JKP]

First Plymouth I believe in the main with the odd Western Greyhound

Go Ahead ran the Plymouth routes that crossed the Tamar Bridge to Bude and Liskeard iirc.

 

[Goldfish62]

Given the quality of buses First run on College contracts, it's interesting that they were best in quality.

I would assume that they offered something better than the mobile scrap currently run on the routes.

It also depends on what the quality questions in the tender were, their weighting and how adept First were at providing answers that scored well. Vehicle quality would most likely have only featured as one part of the evaluation, if at all.

 

[Andyh82]

I would assume that they offered something better than the mobile scrap currently run on the routes.

It also depends on what the quality questions in the tender were, their weighting and how adept First were at providing answers that scored well. Vehicle quality would most likely have only featured as one part of the evaluation.

If they were painted in the same livery rather than a million different schemes with ripped off old fleet names I would say the sort of buses First use is pretty standard for school buses

Up here in Yorkshire First use B9TLs of a similar age, the only difference being they are in a smaller number of liveries. Independents often use old London stock often still painted red. What double decks do Hopleys or A2B Newquay use?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

On that note, before the initial version of Go Cornwall was set up in the late 2010s, who used to run the services in East Cornwall?

The potted history...

Up until the formation of First Bus, services across the Tamar were provided by Western National. This was the case into First days with outbases at Callington, sub depot at Torpoint and running from the main Plymouth depot.

As First progressed (if you can say that), services around Looe and Liskeard (and later Callington?) passed to Western Greyhound who had a depot at Liskeard. In advance of the collapse of WG, this depot was sold to Plymouth Citybus. PCB was engaged in the third Plymouth bus war at this point, and had extended to competing to Torpoint etc against First. On the sale of First's Plymouth depot to Stagecoach, the Torpoint routes were ceded to PCB as part of a peace deal but Stagecoach continued operating to Saltash.

Think that's roughly it.

 

[buscoaster]

Could someone explain the cost saving of not running open toppers throughout the Exmoor Explorer season? There is even a depot in Minehead, so I fail to understand the thinking with this?

 

[thameslink2000]

Well the Exmoor Coaster is now being operated with single deckers because of "weather conditions"...

Exmoor Coaster | Weather Conditions

Due to the impacts of weather conditions on services, the Exmoor Coaster will operate using single deckers. This is due to safety concerns and low hanging branches.

www.firstbus.co.uk

Exmoor Coaster | Weather Conditions​

27th May 2025Exmoor Coaster

• Location
  Exmoor
• Cause
  Weather Conditions
• Effective
  27/05/2025 - 01/06/2025

Due to the impacts of weather conditions on services, the Exmoor Coaster will operate using single deckers.
This is due to safety concerns and low hanging branches.

 

[OptareOlympus]

Well the Exmoor Coaster is now being operated with single deckers because of "weather conditions"...

Exmoor Coaster | Weather Conditions

Due to the impacts of weather conditions on services, the Exmoor Coaster will operate using single deckers. This is due to safety concerns and low hanging branches.

www.firstbus.co.uk

Good to see the new Explore Exmoor brand making an impact already...

 

[Goldfish62]

Good to see the new Explore Exmoor brand making an impact already...

It would hilarious if it wasn't so sad. So over the past few weeks the company has referred to the service as:

Exmoor Explorer
Explore Exmoor
Exmoor Coaster
Sunseeker (displayed on buses)
EX1

I hope Devon County Council, who provided BSIP funding, are keeping a close eye on how effectively FSW is using the money...

 

[Citistar]

I think it's a pretty shocking state of affairs when the BSIP money which is supposed to be building foundations for future services is being thrown straight in to the Bristol Channel on this half baked project that the operator clearly have no interest in the success of. Aside from the electrification project, BoS has never looked anything other than neglected by the Cornish management team.

 

[Goldfish62]

BoS has never looked anything other than neglected by the Cornish management team.

There is no Cornish management team. Those days have long gone.

If you think Somerset looks neglected you should see the state of the Cornwall operations.

 

[fgwrich]

It would hilarious if it wasn't so sad. So over the past few weeks the company has referred to the service as:

Exmoor Explorer
Explore Exmoor
Exmoor Coaster
Sunseeker (displayed on buses)
EX1

I hope Devon County Council, who provided BSIP funding, are keeping a close eye on how effectively FSW is using the money...

Indeed. I note that they mention low hanging tree branches in that link. If only FSW had a dedicated vehicle for such a purpose… wait, they did. And scrapped it. Of course there is always the Highways vs Bus Company debate of who should fix such an issue, but Kernow did have this themselves as an option.

I think it's a pretty shocking state of affairs when the BSIP money which is supposed to be building foundations for future services is being thrown straight in to the Bristol Channel on this half baked project that the operator clearly have no interest in the success of. Aside from the electrification project, BoS has never looked anything other than neglected by the Cornish management team.

There is no Cornish management team. Those days have long gone.

If you think Somerset looks neglected you should see the state of the Cornwall operations.

And whilst Cornwall did receive more care and attention over its Somerset cousin, it certainly needed it. Before the transformation and rebrand into Kernow, Cornwall has always been something of a poor relation in the First Bus empire - the last to have Bristol VRs, possibly elderly Olympians too, a lot of past its best ex London hand me downs in the form of Olympians, Tridents and Darts, very few actual new vehicles (possibly the darts for the 14/18 prior to their replacement with the ex Manchester Eclipses). The collapse of Western Greyhound was the catalyst for change and First certainly rose to it. At least the BOS brand gave Somerset some sort of purpose again.

 

[Andyh82]

I thought they scrapped the tree lopper because First have no legal right to chop off tree branches. Didn’t the same happen with the Dartmoor Explorer?

I know everything is blamed on First, but surely it’s the councils responsibility to ensure the road network is maintained?

 

[markymark2000]

I think it's a pretty shocking state of affairs when the BSIP money which is supposed to be building foundations for future services is being thrown straight in to the Bristol Channel on this half baked project that the operator clearly have no interest in the success of.

The same can be said for around the country where shed loads of BSIP money has been thrown down the drain due to poor projects by local authorities, or awarding contracts to operators who have no care in the world for promotion or attracting people onboard.

 

[Goldfish62]

I thought they scrapped the tree lopper because First have no legal right to chop off tree branches. Didn’t the same happen with the Dartmoor Explorer?

I know everything is blamed on First, but surely it’s the councils responsibility to ensure the road network is maintained?

Councils are legally obliged to remove or lop dangerous trees, but as far as I can ascertain it's an urban myth that they are required to ensure that they're not lower than XX feet. If that was the case then every single council would be in breach.

Having just looked at a YouTube video from a couple of days ago I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of double decks is because they've blown up after encountering Porlock Hill.

 

[embers25]

I see Buses of Somerset and Kernow are both no longer used by First and they have reverted back to be just Somerset and Cornwall. So sad.

 

[Goldfish62]

I see Buses of Somerset and Kernow are both no longer used by First and they have reverted back to be just Somerset and Cornwall. So sad.

Yes, it's the same with all the OpCos, eg First Beeline is no longer. It's First Bus Berkshire & the Thames Valley now. There's no Leeds City or Bradford. Just First Bus West Yorkshire.

 

[henryb]

Well the Exmoor Coaster is now being operated with single deckers because of "weather conditions"...

Exmoor Coaster | Weather Conditions

Due to the impacts of weather conditions on services, the Exmoor Coaster will operate using single deckers. This is due to safety concerns and low hanging branches.

www.firstbus.co.uk

They still appear to be using double deckers…combined with E300’s so that would suggest that perhaps it’s an inability to provide deckers rather than a safety concern. 33896 (e400) is out today

 

[DaveLondon]

They still appear to be using double deckers…combined with E300’s so that would suggest that perhaps it’s an inability to provide deckers rather than a safety concern. 33896 (e400) is out today

The press release gave only a very limited period of single deck operation so presumably the issue has been sorted.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The press release gave only a very limited period of single deck operation so presumably the issue has been sorted.

I don't know how many of those commentating live in Somerset but the winds were higher on Tues/Wed/Thurs c.15-20 mph. Perhaps on excess of caution on their part?

 

[Poiuytre]

Well the Exmoor Coaster is now being operated with single deckers because of "weather conditions"...

I have my doubts about that. I saw a video on Facebook of the Ex Portsmouth E400 struggling on Porlock Hill (according to the comments on it was struggling to get a grip on the road). Sorry I can't find it now to link it

 

[Goldfish62]

I have my doubts about that. I saw a video on Facebook of the Ex Portsmouth E400 struggling on Porlock Hill (according to the comments on it was struggling to get a grip on the road). Sorry I can't find it now to link it

I saw that video as well. I'd take what was said about grip with a pinch of salt. The bus was well loaded and obviously struggling. At one point I could hear the overheating buzzer.

The open toppers have had some mods to cope with the hills. If they've just chucked any old double decker on the route they're asking for trouble.

 

[-Colly405-]

Last year I was on it with open top E400 32740, and having gone into the depot for a driver change, he stopped half way up Porlock Hill, put the brakes on and came up to chat to some folk at the front. Presumably to give the bus chance to cool down a bit. Can't say it felt overly safe to be sat on what is up to a 1:4 hill with no driver in the cab!!!

 

[OptareOlympus]

I never understood why FSW didn't put the half top B9s on Exmoor and the Enviro 400s into Penzance. I'm sure it had to do with the engineering plan to have Somerset all ADL, but you would think suitability to route would have been paramount on the EXMO. It seems the two most reliable performers on the route were the B7TL and B9TL (37058 and 37229). It always amazes me how onlookers are surprised by Enviro 400s constantly overheating when they're basically just the abysmal Dennis Trident rebranded, and who in their right mind would allocate a Trident to the Exmoor Coaster?

 

[Goldfish62]

I never understood why FSW didn't put the half top B9s on Exmoor and the Enviro 400s into Penzance. I'm sure it had to do with the engineering plan to have Somerset all ADL, but you would think suitability to route would have been paramount on the EXMO. It seems the two most reliable performers on the route were the B7TL and B9TL (37058 and 37229). It always amazes me how onlookers are surprised by Enviro 400s constantly overheating when they're basically just the abysmal Dennis Trident rebranded, and who in their right mind would allocate a Trident to the Exmoor Coaster?

Apart from the St Ives - Penzance via Marazion section the Lands End Coaster was a tough route for buses. I believe the B9s had mods to their gearboxes to stay longer in a lower gear, for example. That's why E400s were allocated to the easier Atlantic Coaster and Volvos on the LEC.

 

[henryb]

Apart from the St Ives - Penzance via Marazion section the Lands End Coaster was a tough route for buses. I believe the B9s had mods to their gearboxes to stay longer in a lower gear, for example. That's why E400s were allocated to the easier Atlantic Coaster and Volvos on the LEC.

Which is why it’s bizarre they haven’t changed gearing this year….
Are they not breaking their tender by not supplying all double decker vehicles on the EX1?

 

[Goldfish62]

Are they not breaking their tender by not supplying all double decker vehicles on the EX1?

They're not running the EX1 under a contract. FSW is receiving BSIP funding from Devon to top up the revenue income. The funding would on the basis of conditions agreeable to both the council and the operator. You can bet that FSW won't have accepted any conditions that they'd see as onerous.

 

[henryb]

It seems to suggest that it is included from the press release “
The service will run from 25 May until 31 August, starting on Sunday 25 May on a low season timetable when it will operate with closed top double deckers.”

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It seems to suggest that it is included from the press release “
The service will run from 25 May until 31 August, starting on Sunday 25 May on a low season timetable when it will operate with closed top double deckers.”

What are the conditions attached to the BSIP funding?