First time job

[TheJRB]

Hi,


I'm coming up to a time in my life when change in inevitable. I've studied at home since I was 14 for a variety of reasons. I've got a good set of GCSEs but my A levels haven't panned out quite as I'd hope. I have studied Maths and Politics and whilst I'm interested in and do well in Politics, Maths has proven very tough to learn with just a tutor via email.

I understand a lot of people would recommend I go to university but with only one or two A levels and a natural predisposition to avoid debt, I'm thinking I'd like to do things a bit differently. I've been considering studying with the Open Uni and seeking work at the same time. Has anybody tried this and know what it'd be like?

Then I come to the topic of employment of course! I've not had a job to date and whilst there seems to be an abundance of jobs available in all the different sectors of the rail industry, it's difficult to discern those which it would be worth my while applying for.

I've seen a few roles including a Trainee Train Planner for Thameslink but I'm not sure if they are roles which are at all suited for first time employment. I saw the Eurostar internship which seems good but looks to be largely speculative.

I then have a bit of a trouble because although Ashford is only 38 minutes away from London on HS1, it's still three miles from home (a twenty minute bus ride away) and the fares are pretty daunting. What would the situation be regarding paying for travel etc. in different roles and employers?

I'm really after some advice so please if you can help, it'd be much appreciated.

 

[JamesTT]

Regards the Thameslink job if Govia retain the Southeastern Franchise you would get free travel on HS1. I think there might be a couple of trains morning and evening peak that staff travel passes are not valid on. But even if you did have to pay being a rail employee you can apply for season ticket with 75% off.
Plus assessments interviews and training generally have travel included for free.

 

[scotsman]

Hi,

These days many roles that you might think aren't for new-to-the-railway types actually are. A high proportion of train drivers, for instance, never worked on the railway before they got their current role.

To help you, we do need to know a bit more about you...

Can you drive? Are you over 18, or 21?

Do you currently have a job? If so, roughly how long have you held it, and does it involve working with the public?

Railway jobs are highly sought, and the candidates that get the jobs are the ones that can prove that they can do their job safely, without supervision (after whatever training is required), communicate clearly, and be excellent ambassadors for their business. It may sound daunting, but the best thing to do is read previous threads on applications, interviews, assessments, etc. - you'll find there's probably one for whatever role you want to go for!

Ironically, a Trainee Train Planner is probably one of the few roles that I think it'd be hard to get into without a railway background.

However, I can't see why you shouldn't apply for the Eurostar internship - all experience is good experience, and the worst they can say is no.

Personally (and speaking as a Scot whose student debts will be much smaller than yours would ever be) - I'd go uni, but it's up to you. Is the debt worth it? I'd be inclined to say yes.

As for transport - you'll have to demonstrate that you can get to work at any time that you may be required. Your employer will not offer you any assistance to get to and from work, but you will be issued with passes that will entitled you to free travel on their services whenever you wish. Depending on who owns your employer, you may be entitled to discounts on other transport (buses), which could reduce the cost of going to work. That said, any role on the railway is likely to pay well enough that the costs of going to work won't really matter hugely.

Hope this helps - I'm from the catering side of things myself, so feel free to give me a shout if you need any help with those kinds of roles.

 

[TheJRB]

Regards the Thameslink job if Govia retain the Southeastern Franchise you would get free travel on HS1. I think there might be a couple of trains morning and evening peak that staff travel passes are not valid on. But even if you did have to pay being a rail employee you can apply for season ticket with 75% off.
Plus assessments interviews and training generally have travel included for free.

Thanks. I'd guessed that might apply but it's good to know.

Hi,

These days many roles that you might think aren't for new-to-the-railway types actually are. A high proportion of train drivers, for instance, never worked on the railway before they got their current role.

To help you, we do need to know a bit more about you...

Can you drive? Are you over 18, or 21?

I'm 19.

Do you currently have a job? If so, roughly how long have you held it, and does it involve working with the public?

I don't I'm afraid which is why I'm keen to see where it would be possible to join with no prior experience.

Railway jobs are highly sought, and the candidates that get the jobs are the ones that can prove that they can do their job safely, without supervision (after whatever training is required), communicate clearly, and be excellent ambassadors for their business. It may sound daunting, but the best thing to do is read previous threads on applications, interviews, assessments, etc. - you'll find there's probably one for whatever role you want to go for!

I know they're highly sought and I can see the appeal not only as somebody a with a keen interest in railways but seeing the other benefits and the relative security it makes a lot of sense. I've done a bit of reading in this sub-forum in the past but I'll be having a good dig around now.

Ironically, a Trainee Train Planner is probably one of the few roles that I think it'd be hard to get into without a railway background.

Yes I can see that it requires a great deal of knowledge and prior hands on experience would be a big plus. I have a good understanding for an outsider but before anybody gets the wrong impression here, I don't somehow think that makes me qualified or think I know it all, far from it.

However, I can't see why you shouldn't apply for the Eurostar internship - all experience is good experience, and the worst they can say is no.

No I'll give that a more thorough look and maybe give it a go. It'd certainly be easy to get to if it was in Ashford.

Personally (and speaking as a Scot whose student debts will be much smaller than yours would ever be) - I'd go uni, but it's up to you. Is the debt worth it? I'd be inclined to say yes.

It's a tough call I know. I should probably get in touch with my local Connexions institute who have been keen to lend a hand in the past with regards to making decisions and finding ways into further education and employment. I don't currently have the required qualifications although I think the stringent entry requirements are eased when you're not coming straight from school over 18.

As for transport - you'll have to demonstrate that you can get to work at any time that you may be required. Your employer will not offer you any assistance to get to and from work, but you will be issued with passes that will entitled you to free travel on their services whenever you wish. Depending on who owns your employer, you may be entitled to discounts on other transport (buses), which could reduce the cost of going to work. That said, any role on the railway is likely to pay well enough that the costs of going to work won't really matter hugely.

Yes. Well for an office job this would pose less of a problem but for shift work, I doubt I'm in a position to be able to do so right now. Stagecoach run my local buses and GoVia run my local rail franchises so not much luck there! True, I suppose local transport like that wouldn't cause any pain financially.

Hope this helps - I'm from the catering side of things myself, so feel free to give me a shout if you need any help with those kinds of roles.

Your help is much appreciated!

 

[telstarbox]

Once you've had one job, even a part time or summer one, it's easier to get another job. I'm not saying do something you can't stand but see if you can do a few hours somewhere while you figure out the next move.

 

[yorkie]

I understand a lot of people would recommend I go to university but with only one or two A levels and a natural predisposition to avoid debt

Student loan debt is best discussed in another thread, but as you don't have to repay it until, and unless, you earn more than the threshold (and then at a very slow rate), it's nothing to worry about, certainly not in terms of other types of debt.

However..

I'm thinking I'd like to do things a bit differently....

...that's a good idea, as too many people get degrees in areas where there are insufficient jobs, and for most jobs in the rail industry a degree is of no real benefit. But that depends on what you want to do. If you want to do a role that doesn't require a university degree, I believe experience is more important.

Then I come to the topic of employment of course! I've not had a job to date ...

Even a part time job is useful to gain experience.

I've seen a few roles including a Trainee Train Planner for Thameslink but I'm not sure if they are roles which are at all suited for first time employment.

I know of several people in train planning roles, and also several people who have tried to get such roles. However from what I've heard the pay on offer would not be much good and the competition is strong.

I then have a bit of a trouble because although Ashford is only 38 minutes away from London on HS1, it's still three miles from home (a twenty minute bus ride away) and the fares are pretty daunting. What would the situation be regarding paying for travel etc. in different roles and employers?

You'd get free travel on HS1 if you work for any of the Govia TOCs. As for the bus ride, 3 miles can be cycled in 20 mins at a slow pace, so maybe that's an option? It would save a lot of money and help keep you fit too.

 

[TheJRB]

Student loan debt is best discussed in another thread, but as you don't have to repay it until, and unless, you earn more than the threshold (and then at a very slow rate), it's nothing to worry about, certainly not in terms of other types of debt.

I must say whilst I'm aware of all this, I still have difficulty becoming comfortable with owing anybody anything before I've even got a penny for myself.

However..
...that's a good idea, as too many people get degrees in areas where there are insufficient jobs, and for most jobs in the rail industry a degree is of no real benefit. But that depends on what you want to do. If you want to do a role that doesn't require a university degree, I believe experience is more important.

Well this is just the thing. I don't know what I'll be wanting to do in the future and I'm quite open with my search now. I've seen how my dad has progressed in his career and I can see how a healthy level of ambition can take you a long way. He's got a degree in music and now works as a self employed contractor in programme management for a big insurance firm; whilst the subject he studied isn't relevant to his work, I know the fact he has a degree has benefited him in the past and so has his experience and specialising in an area. This is why I'm far from ruling out continued studying but in a slightly more cost effective guise.

I know of several people in train planning roles, and also several people who have tried to get such roles. However from what I've heard the pay on offer would not be much good and the competition is strong.

Yes I've seen the pay and whilst it's not particularly inspiring compared to other roles (which has surprised me to be honest), salary isn't a big concern right now.

You'd get free travel on HS1 if you work for any of the Govia TOCs. As for the bus ride, 3 miles can be cycled in 20 mins at a slow pace, so maybe that's an option? It would save a lot of money and help keep you fit too.

It just so happens a cycle path opened about a year ago which means you barely have to touch the road now so that'd definitely be on the cards.

 

[yorkie]

I must say whilst I'm aware of all this, I still have difficulty becoming comfortable with owing anybody anything before I've even got a penny for myself.

That's commendable but it really isn't debt in the traditional sense (and neither is a mortgage, really).

Well this is just the thing. I don't know what I'll be wanting to do in the future ...

Try to get experience in a variety of roles, as well as speaking with a variety of people to find out about the roles they do. If possible try to get on one of the apprenticeship schemes which gives you a bit of experience at various roles.

Where did you go for work experience?

Yes I've seen the pay and whilst it's not particularly inspiring compared to other roles (which has surprised me to be honest), salary isn't a big concern right now.

...providing you work for the right TOC, I'd agree. But if not, commuting could be costly.

It just so happens a cycle path opened about a year ago which means you barely have to touch the road now so that'd definitely be on the cards.

Go for it! Just be extra careful in winter (and take the bus on any days where there is a possibility of ice).

 

[TheJRB]

Where did you go for work experience?

I'm afraid I never got around to that. Lydd Airport didn't want the liability when I asked and then I got caught up in leaving that school and ended up studying at home.

Go for it! Just be extra careful in winter (and take the bus on any days where there is a possibility of ice).

Well it's a reasonably good bus service. All that said there's a possibility my parents and I might be moving back towards London at some point but I'm not sure right now where it would be to.

 

[JamesTT]

How about volunteering in a local charity shop

 

[TheJRB]

How about volunteering in a local charity shop

To be honest if there was one near enough I'd definitely consider it but as I'm in an area where there are lots of houses but very few facilities and I'd have to go into Ashford, I'd probably lose money just to do it.

 

[scotsman]

Any job. I repeat, any job, will help. I had 15 months of bar work, and some casual bus conducting shifts when I started on the railway.

A cafe, pub, charity shop, cleaning work...anything!

 

[yorkie]

Any job. I repeat, any job, will help. I had 15 months of bar work, and some casual bus conducting shifts when I started on the railway.

A cafe, pub, charity shop, cleaning work...anything!

Agreed. I've also posted this which may be of interest: Teenagers are choosing to study over Saturday jobs, new report suggests

 

[plastictaffy]

Something like bar work, or even work in a fast food joint such as McDonalds would have several advantages over no work at all.

1. A steady stream of income (not a lot, perhaps, but any wage is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, and if it's your money that you earnt, it feels even better)

2. If you have never had employment, a lot of employers will put it in the "No" pile without giving it a second glance. I used to do a bit of CV scanning and telphone interviewing for a well-known holiday company some years ago. We were told that if the candidate has never had employment, it was to go straight in the "No" pile.

3. As has already been stated above, if you have work, it at least gives you something to use as examples when you get to interview. Interviewers like to ask questions like "What experience have you got that you feel is beneficial to this role?" At the moment (no offence) you will struggle to answer that question, I should think.

If I were you, I'd go to University, get a bit of life experience studying something you enjoy. Yes, you'll get into debt, but by god, University looks like a plethora of drink, STD's, and debauchery. I left school at 16 with 1 GCSE to my name in 1998, not because I'm thick, but I had potential I wouldn't use. It's only in the last 3-5 years I've managed to get settled in life, with a career and all the benefits that gives.

Go to Uni. Think while you're there about you'd really like to do with your life. Get your qualifications, take a gap year, then look at getting that job you really want. If it's still the railway, so be it, but the experience you'll have gained on the way to that decision will be a huge help.

Have you considered the Armed Forces?? You can earn and learn then.

 

[Iskra]

Something like bar work, or even work in a fast food joint such as McDonalds would have several advantages over no work at all.

1. A steady stream of income (not a lot, perhaps, but any wage is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, and if it's your money that you earnt, it feels even better)

2. t i If you have never had employment, a lot of employers will put it in the "No" pile without giving it a second glance. I used to do a bit of CV scanning and telphone interviewing for a well-known holiday company some years ago. We were told thaf the candidate has never had employment, it was to go straight in the "No" pile.

3. As has already been stated above, if you have work, it at least gives you something to use as examples when you get to interview. Interviewers like to ask questions like "What experience have you got that you feel is beneficial to this role?" At the moment (no offence) you will struggle to answer that question, I should think.

If I were you, I'd go to University, get a bit of life experience studying something you enjoy. Yes, you'll get into debt, but by god, University looks like a plethora of drink, STD's, and debauchery. I left school at 16 with 1 GCSE to my name in 1998, not because I'm thick, but I had potential I wouldn't use. It's only in the last 3-5 years I've managed to get settled in life, with a career and all the benefits that gives.

Go to Uni. Think while you're there about you'd really like to do with your life. Get your qualifications, take a gap year, then look at getting that job you really want. If it's still the railway, so be it, but the experience you'll have gained on the way to that decision will be a huge help.

Have you considered the Armed Forces?? You can earn and learn then.

This entire post is bob on.

I recruit staff for a popular coffee chain and I won't take anyone with no work experience. My company reckons it costs £1500 to employ and train a new customer service assistant. I'm simply not prepared to risk that amount of money on someone who can't demonstrate they are prepared to work. (I do allow volunteer jobs, and virtually any meaningful regular employment that isn't from a family member). Unfortunately, too many people expect to be able to just 'turn up' and that's enough. Spending 5 days a week with someone who doesn't want to work is no fun at all, thus it isn't worth the risk...

University is great, as long as you do something that is going to get you a job afterwards. Media studies, drama, etc is simply wasting your time and money. I've got 2 degrees- they're worth it providing you do a worthwhile subject.

But, I think the armed forces is the best bet. I got in but failed a medical due to eyesight. Life of riley in the forces as long as you choose service and branch intelligently.

I do think we expect our youth to know what they want to do in life a bit too soon.

 

[RJ]

University is great, as long as you do something that is going to get you a job afterwards. Media studies, drama, etc is simply wasting your time and money. I've got 2 degrees- they're worth it providing you do a worthwhile subject.

Not sure I agree with this. I know of some people doing some traditional subjects and done quite well, but are still unemployable as they have an abysmal work ethic and a misguided sense of entitlement. Whilst others seem to get in somewhere as they've had work experience and forged positive relationships with people that can help them, regardless of what they have studied.

 

[Simon11]

If you do plan to get to university, spending a year doing work experience is what sets you apart from the other candidates. Your chances of getting a job at the end easily treble.

 

[TheJRB]

I appreciate all the replies here. I do find it somewhat saddening that it's so difficult to get first time employment. I've been preparing a CV and I'm actually quite surprised at how many small bits and pieces I've done through the years, even if they aren't paid employment. Things like designing posters and membership cards and having photos featured online in places like The Guardian. I'm not suggesting it's a lot or that it counts for much but they are all bits which are worth a mention I feel.

My dad is a contractor and so has his own business. Maybe if I did a small job for him on the company books, like filing receipts for expenses, that would at least be something to put on my CV or would it just be seen as a waste of time?

 

[Iskra]

I appreciate all the replies here. I do find it somewhat saddening that it's so difficult to get first time employment. I've been preparing a CV and I'm actually quite surprised at how many small bits and pieces I've done through the years, even if they aren't paid employment. Things like designing posters and membership cards and having photos featured online in places like The Guardian. I'm not suggesting it's a lot or that it counts for much but they are all bits which are worth a mention I feel.

My dad is a contractor and so has his own business. Maybe if I did a small job for him on the company books, like filing receipts for expenses, that would at least be something to put on my CV or would it just be seen as a waste of time?

I think you'd find it fairly easy to get a first time job in a local cafe/pub/restaurant/shop.

If not, volunteer for a few hours a week and then you'll soon be in a better position to get a job.

Rightly or wrongly, I'm always suspicious when someone's only employment is for a family member and unless that CV was otherwise amazing I probably wouldn't be progressing it. That said, I am in the fortunate position of having lots of applicants for very few positions, so maybe I'm just picky.

Your photo/design experience is certainly worthwhile mentioning on your CV. You might even be able to make a part-time job out of that, which would look amazing on your CV.