First Trenitalia (Avanti!) WCML branding, naming and livery

[Darandio]

I notice there are now Avanti parody accounts muscling in on genuine queries on Twitter. These people are embarrassing.

 

[PR1Berske]

I notice there are now Avanti parody accounts muscling in on genuine queries on Twitter. These people are embarrassing.

What concerns me is how the real Avanti can't seem to do anything about the parody accounts. One in particular is providing a non stop service far busier than even Virgin mastered!

 

[GrimShady]

It's about making sure that LGBT+ passengers and staff feel safe. It sounds silly, but it does make a difference because it's an overt message that the company takes equality and discrimination seriously, which all too many don't. I worked with Virgin on their marketing around Pride last summer (2018) and it was a genuine pleasure to talk to a company who so obviously meant every word of what they were saying - because all too many don't.

Yeah I still don't buy it. It's not as if the rail industry has a history of oppressing the LGBT community as either passengers or employees. I don't doubt you had a good experience with them but the are masters of appealing to public on a different level. Much of it fake in my view

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yeah I still don't buy it. It's not as if the rail industry has a history of oppressing the LGBT community as either passengers or employees. I don't doubt you had a good experience with them but the are masters of appealing to public on a different level. Much of it fake in my view

You seem to be trying to pour hate on just about everything Virgin. Come on, it’s a bit exhausting now?

 

[PR1Berske]

Yeah I still don't buy it. It's not as if the rail industry has a history of oppressing the LGBT community as either passengers or employees. I don't doubt you had a good experience with them but the are masters of appealing to public on a different level. Much of it fake in my view

"You would say that wouldn't you"

 

[omnicity4659]

Yeah I still don't buy it. It's not as if the rail industry has a history of oppressing the LGBT community as either passengers or employees. I don't doubt you had a good experience with them but the are masters of appealing to public on a different level. Much of it fake in my view

I also helped out with pride at another TOC, and it's certainly not fake. The people behind it all are very, very passionate about what they're doing... and all come from a different variety of backgrounds too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I also helped out with pride at another TOC, and it's certainly not fake. The people behind it all are very, very passionate about what they're doing... and all come from a different variety of backgrounds too.

Given Souter's record with regard to such matters (and given that Stagecoach owns 49% of VTWC, at least until Saturday night) I can't help but feel that in the case of this specific TOC it is rather empty.

I'm not anti-VTWC at all as you've probably generally noticed, but any business connected to Stagecoach shouting about Pride just shouts "hypocrite" to me. Not on a dissimilar level to the Sun newspaper giving empty apologies to Scousers to try to get it sold there again.

 

[Merle Haggard]

A couple of points, trivial perhaps...
At Euston the rolling advert screens included one for Avanti. I wonder if the triangle is intended as a perspective view of an Equilateral triangle?

Edited - to correct geometry



Removing the Virgin 'brand' will be difficult when it has been so associated with the colour red that no further 'branding' is necessary; this is the Christmas tree at Lancaster (also includes a reminder of what a Virgin-liveried Pendo. looked like)

 

[GrimShady]

You seem to be trying to pour hate on just about everything Virgin. Come on, it’s a bit exhausting now?

Maybe because I believe everything about them to be about as duplicitous as one can get. Exhausting? Hardly, a few posts pointing out how garbage they were against screeds of Virgin loving posts.....a bit of balance is required.

Besides....as I said posts ago I think it's "Awesome" their finally gone.

I also helped out with pride at another TOC, and it's certainly not fake. The people behind it all are very, very passionate about what they're doing... and all come from a different variety of backgrounds too.

Would this include those at the higher echelons of the company? This on the shop floor may be very passionate...higher up I doubt it.

"You would say that wouldn't you"

I can think for myself, I don't take everything a TOC tells me is gospel.

 

[Mathew S]

Yeah I still don't buy it. It's not as if the rail industry has a history of oppressing the LGBT community as either passengers or employees. I don't doubt you had a good experience with them but the are masters of appealing to public on a different level. Much of it fake in my view

Forgive my bluntness but whether you 'buy it' or not couldn't possibly matter less. Plenty of LGBT people - myself included - have been subject to abuse, discrimination, and even violence on public transport. Seeing Virgin, Northern and others actively supporting Pride makes LGBT people feel safer, and gives us the confidence to use public transport where we may not have before.

Given Souter's record with regard to such matters (and given that Stagecoach owns 49% of VTWC, at least until Saturday night) I can't help but feel that in the case of this specific TOC it is rather empty.

I'm not anti-VTWC at all as you've probably generally noticed, but any business connected to Stagecoach shouting about Pride just shouts "hypocrite" to me. Not on a dissimilar level to the Sun newspaper giving empty apologies to Scousers to try to get it sold there again.

Yeah, Mr Soutar is not my favourite person either but, in fairness to VTWC, everyone I worked with seemed genuinely passionate about it.
I'm not a fan of Pride myself, despite being a gay man, but done properly, I can't deny it makes a real difference.

 

[GrimShady]

Forgive my bluntness but whether you 'buy it' or not couldn't possibly matter less. Plenty of LGBT people - myself included - have been subject to abuse, discrimination, and even violence on public transport. Seeing Virgin, Northern and others actively supporting Pride makes LGBT people feel safer, and gives us the confidence to use public transport where we may not have before.

Yeah, Mr Soutar is not my favourite person either but, in fairness to VTWC, everyone I worked with seemed genuinely passionate about it.
I'm not a fan of Pride myself, despite being a gay man, but done properly, I can't deny it makes a real difference.

Really, could you maybe explain how they are supporting the community apart from hollow messages that are simply fashionable now? Are they more secure traveling environments since supporting pride? If so shouldn't that apply to all of the traveling public? Would you choose one TOC over the other because of these messages?

If the fact I 'buy it' or doesn't matter then why the need to explain it?

I think it's all marketing BS to be honest much like Starbucks asking for your name and telephone operators using ones first name. Also I actually think it's disrespectful too.

 

[omnicity4659]

Given Souter's record with regard to such matters (and given that Stagecoach owns 49% of VTWC, at least until Saturday night) I can't help but feel that in the case of this specific TOC it is rather empty.

Brian Souter's personal views will certainly not match nor transfer to those actually running the companies in question.

It was actually Stagecoach/Virgin who made LGBT and diversity more mainstream on this side of the Pennines, and drove real improvements across the company, not just what the punters see. Of course, the new operator carried on with that!

Would this include those at the higher echelons of the company? This on the shop floor may be very passionate...higher up I doubt it.



I can think for myself, I don't take everything a TOC tells me is gospel.

It does yes. They're very passionate. Some are even LGBT themselves I believe.

 

[PR1Berske]

Really, could you maybe explain how they are supporting the community apart from hollow messages that are simply fashionable now? Are they more secure traveling environments since supporting pride? If so shouldn't that apply to all of the traveling public? Would you choose one TOC over the other because of these messages?

If the fact I 'buy it' or doesn't matter then why the need to explain it?

I think it's all marketing BS to be honest much like Starbucks asking for your name and telephone operators using ones first name. Also I actually think it's disrespectful too.

Is there anything you do feel positive about?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there anything you do feel positive about?

HS2 maybe?

 

[GrimShady]

Is there anything you do feel positive about?

I thought that was clear enough.....the end of Virgins "Awesome" reign?

 

[pt_mad]

I've never understood this supporting pride stuff. If anything it's insulting as more fake let's be friends advertising when in actual fact they don't give a hoot.

To be fair though lots of staff made comment on how they did genuinely care very much about this issue.

 

[43066]

It's not as if the rail industry has a history of oppressing the LGBT community as either passengers or employees.

Sadly, large swathes of the railway are stuck in the 1970s in terms of attitudes to LGBT.

As a straight TOC employee I think it’s a good thing that situation is now being challenged, and credit to Virgin because it sounds like they’ve done more than most companies to address this issue.

On the other hand, I agree with you on the general Virgin branding which has annoyed me every single time I’ve traveled with them; it’s infantile, patronising and childish. In fact I think it’s “Awesome” that they’ve finally gone!

 

[Mathew S]

Really, could you maybe explain how they are supporting the community apart from hollow messages that are simply fashionable now? Are they more secure traveling environments since supporting pride? If so shouldn't that apply to all of the traveling public? Would you choose one TOC over the other because of these messages?

Two-thirds of LGBT people say that they are afraid to hold hands with their partner in a public place for fear of violence. I can't remember the last week at work where I didn't have to deal with another assault on someone for simply being who they are. LGBT people - whether passengers or staff - need to know that public transport operators take this seriously. It makes people like me safer, and feel safer, to know that a company takes these issues seriously and that, if anything were to happen, it would be dealt with in the right way.
As for choosing one company over another because of their stance on LGBT rights, yes 100% I do, and so do plenty of others. If you don't believe me, Google "The Pink Pound" - supporting Pride is good business, as well as being the right thing to do.

 

[GrimShady]

Two-thirds of LGBT people say that they are afraid to hold hands with their partner in a public place for fear of violence. I can't remember the last week at work where I didn't have to deal with another assault on someone for simply being who they are. LGBT people - whether passengers or staff - need to know that public transport operators take this seriously. It makes people like me safer, and feel safer, to know that a company takes these issues seriously and that, if anything were to happen, it would be dealt with in the right way.
As for choosing one company over another because of their stance on LGBT rights, yes 100% I do, and so do plenty of others. If you don't believe me, Google "The Pink Pound" - supporting Pride is good business, as well as being the right thing to do.

Okay Matthew I get that it has the appearance of caring but as you quite correctly posted it's more about the pink pound which I was aiming at. It's another revenue stream.

My meaning was would you travel with a TOC that didn't (not actively)support pride or merely wasn't interested? You could spread the assault argument to anybody really. No one should be assaulted at all regardless of any characteristics in my view, but that's all going way off topic.

 

[GrimShady]

Sadly, large swathes of the railway are stuck in the 1970s in terms of attitudes to LGBT.

As a straight TOC employee I think it’s a good thing that situation is now being challenged, and credit to Virgin because it sounds like they’ve done more than most companies to address this issue.

On the other hand, I agree with you on the general Virgin branding which has annoyed me every single time I’ve traveled with them; it’s infantile, patronising and childish. In fact I think it’s “Awesome” that they’ve finally gone!

It's like that in most industries, to say that Virgin are champions of gay rights I think is giving them way, way too much credit. Another poster hit the nail on the head..The Pink Pound.

Glad we share a similar dislike of the branding.

 

[Trackman]

I notice there are now Avanti parody accounts muscling in on genuine queries on Twitter. These people are embarrassing.

Has it been mentioned the official website is sort of up and running https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/
It has the official links to twitter, FB etc..

 

[Howardh]

Hate the colour scheme and logo, ugh!! Hope it looks better in real life...

 

[Clip]

Given Souter's record with regard to such matters (and given that Stagecoach owns 49% of VTWC, at least until Saturday night) I can't help but feel that in the case of this specific TOC it is rather empty.

You seem to imp[ly that he would have direct input into the day to day operation and publicity that they put out then? Any case of backing this up because i know a few of the people who were driving the pride thing and they certainly werent doing some sort of 'empty praise' and they would take great offence to that being levelled at them

 

[sprunt]

It was actually Stagecoach/Virgin who made LGBT and diversity more mainstream on this side of the Pennines,

I don't doubt the genuine intentions of the people working on this on the ground, but this seems like a ludicrous oversell.

 

[Darandio]

Has it been mentioned the official website is sort of up and running https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/
It has the official links to twitter, FB etc..

The official Twitter are indeed already engaging with people. But what doesn't help are these parody accounts diving in to reply first with incorrect information or smartarse replies.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The official Twitter are indeed already engaging with people. But what doesn't help are these parody accounts diving in to reply first with incorrect information or smartarse replies.

They are amusing, but they are a bit unimaginative and do cause issues by people thinking they're the real ones. I thought the various more clever ones that existed to counter First Great Western were more amusing - FGW Kicked My Cat probably by far the best one.

 

[krus_aragon]

Re: the "small A next to the triangle" variant of the logo, I've just noticed that the 'A' is placed in just the right place to alter the triangle itself to look like the letter 'A'; the lower edge of the triangle becomes a stylised version of the bar across the 'A'.

 

[Darandio]

They are amusing, but they are a bit unimaginative and do cause issues by people thinking they're the real ones. I thought the various more clever ones that existed to counter First Great Western were more amusing - FGW Kicked My Cat probably by far the best one.

Some of them are really good, not just with the amusing content but they also know when and when not to post. These Avanti ones are there purely to cause issues for the new operator, they're basically idiots in bedrooms.

 

[Trackman]

The official Twitter are indeed already engaging with people. But what doesn't help are these parody accounts diving in to reply first with incorrect information or smartarse replies.

There was once a Northern twitter account that caused mayhem and it was verified.

I've looked at an AWC parody account, it's not even funny- just misleading.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yeah I still don't buy it. It's not as if the rail industry has a history of oppressing the LGBT community as either passengers or employees. I don't doubt you had a good experience with them but the are masters of appealing to public on a different level. Much of it fake in my view

I agree that it could easily be seen as a cynical ploy to bag the so-called "pink pound"... but at least it probably annoyed the hell out of Souter!