First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wonder if the 39/X39 will change along the lines of the X1/X1A and X3/X4. Where neither are actually a direct service but both take minor detours.

Why would you divert the X39 and where to? The only place you could would be via Keynsham and that would make the X39 painfully slow.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I can understand why you think Crosville attacked First Bus but in a way living on the route 3 having two different every 20 minute buses than just one! I don't like the way Crosville always seem to set there timetable to run 2-3 minutes before or after the first bus though!
I'm all a keen fan of the Crosville 107! Connections more of the city that the route 7, for example people in the Coronation estate can easy get to Asda by bus as well as people living in the Oldmixon!
And I can't really see the problem with Crosville taking over routes dumped by First, it's better than nothing!

I also think its good on First Bus for have a comeback on Crosville with the 5! But I thought Crosville already ran a route 5?

Let's be realistic.

Crosville decided to run over the 3 and 5 (with their 103/105) with their vehicles in front of the First journeys. First hung in there but eventually couldn't sustain the losses on the 5. Hence, Crosville stayed and eventually added a 5 to the 105.

Crosville then decide to run over the main 7 service with their 107 (and to really make it extra provocative, adopt a Badgerline style livery). Not surprising that First have decided to retaliate with their new 5!

 

[swifty]

Why would you divert the X39 and where to? The only place you could would be via Keynsham and that would make the X39 painfully slow.

Scotland Lane and Stockwood Hill?

 

[THarris123]

Quick question about the 4 in Bath: Anyone know its pvr? Roughly.

About 10.

 

[THarris123]

On Facebook that 7 B7Ls are leaving Bath and heading to Leeds - 3 going this weekend. I can only assume this is 66352-6 - but don't know about the other two.

Anyone know what's replacing them in Bath or are they surplus?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Re the 39/X39, my opinion has always been the X39 should be limited stop and the 39 / 38 / 37 can pick up the slack for the stops that it doesn't serve. Really as it is at the moment, the X39 shouldn't be labelled an X service at all because apart from avoiding Keynsham I really don't see what is "express" about it.

 

[THarris123]

Re the 39/X39, my opinion has always been the X39 should be limited stop and the 39 / 38 / 37 can pick up the slack for the stops that it doesn't serve. Really as it is at the moment, the X39 shouldn't be labelled an X service at all because apart from avoiding Keynsham I really don't see what is "express" about it.

It avoids Keynsham and takes about 10 minutes off the journey time - so express due to that. You could make it limited stop along Bath Road - which would help speed it up a bit.

Thinking about it, why couldn't they run a 39 every half hour during the day and cut X39 to every 15 mins?

 

[Whiteway215]

I think going on rumours I've heard - darts.

Do these rumours also include where the Darts are coming from?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Re the 39/X39, my opinion has always been the X39 should be limited stop and the 39 / 38 / 37 can pick up the slack for the stops that it doesn't serve. Really as it is at the moment, the X39 shouldn't be labelled an X service at all because apart from avoiding Keynsham I really don't see what is "express" about it.

The X39 is the express version of the 39. Granted, it may only be the Keynsham bypass but it is c.15% of the journey length and missing Keynsham saves about a fair bit of time.

 

[Whiteway215]

On Facebook that 7 B7Ls are leaving Bath and heading to Leeds - 3 going this weekend. I can only assume this is 66352-6 - but don't know about the other two.

Anyone know what's replacing them in Bath or are they surplus?

Well we know 66352-6 are being turfed off the 5 by the blue liveried B7RLEs (66881 etc)

 

[THarris123]

Do these rumours also include where the Darts are coming from?

No, but at a guess Bath.

 

[THarris123]

Well we know 66352-6 are being turfed off the 5 by the blue liveried B7RLEs (66881 etc)

But I thought they were being used on other routes currently (37/38, etc), so surely they'll be short if they get rid of them.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

No, but at a guess Bath.

Never guess!

Not least because if Bath is losing their B7Ls, then the likelihood of losing further vehicles is reduced? Let's see what happens

 

[THarris123]

Never guess!

Not least because if Bath is losing their B7Ls, then the likelihood of losing further vehicles is reduced? Let's see what happens

Very true - could be Bristol, Yeovil, Cymru, Kernow, Yorkshire. Could be anywhere. It'll be interesting to see if Bath get anything in return to replace B7ls.

 

[vicbury]

It avoids Keynsham and takes about 10 minutes off the journey time - so express due to that. You could make it limited stop along Bath Road - which would help speed it up a bit.

Thinking about it, why couldn't they run a 39 every half hour during the day and cut X39 to every 15 mins?

No.

We've been through this before. The X39 competes with the railway and the car on frequency, cost and convenience, not journey time.

If it goes limited stop on the Bath Road that leaves Brislington with only three buses per hour (38 + 178). Wessex would be rubbing their hands with delight!

Limited-stop buses are both confusing and frustrating. In my opinion the Brislington Park & Ride should call at all stops on the route to bring the mean journey times on the Bath Road down for all bus users.

 

[WelshBluebird]

It avoids Keynsham and takes about 10 minutes off the journey time - so express due to that. You could make it limited stop along Bath Road - which would help speed it up a bit.

Thinking about it, why couldn't they run a 39 every half hour during the day and cut X39 to every 15 mins?

The X39 is the express version of the 39. Granted, it may only be the Keynsham bypass but it is c.15% of the journey length and missing Keynsham saves about a fair bit of time.

At least in my experience, the slowest bits of the journey are from Newbridge P&R to Bath bus station and from Brislington to Bristol bus station, not just because of traffic (which can't be helped for the most part) but mainly because of the number of stops made where passengers are carrying out local journeys (that could just as easily be done on the local services that travel along those two corridors).

No.

We've been through this before. The X39 competes with the railway and the car on frequency, cost and convenience, not journey time.

If it goes limited stop on the Bath Road that leaves Brislington with only three buses per hour (38 + 178). Wessex would be rubbing their hands with delight!

Limited-stop buses are both confusing and frustrating. In my opinion the Brislington Park & Ride should call at all stops on the route to bring the mean journey times on the Bath Road down for all bus users.

Regarding Brislington, you can easily sort that by doing it limited stop from Arnos Vale instead (which means the number 1 can pick up some of the slack there too).

And I don't see why limited stop buses are confusing, they exist elsewhere with very little fuss. Especially here where we are pretty much talking about the end two sections of the route being limited stop and the middle being normal.

I'll be honest, I don't know what the answer is. I am just coming at this as someone who travels between Bristol and Bath by both bus and train very often and is always surprised how long it takes to actually get through the cities because of the number of people doing local journeys that could be done on local services.

Also apologies if the topic has been done to death here before!

 

[Private Baxter]

About 10.

Thanks for that. I make it thirteen darts in Barbie livery at Bath, so perhaps we'll soon see many of these turn blue??

On Facebook that 7 B7Ls are leaving Bath and heading to Leeds - 3 going this weekend. I can only assume this is 66352-6 - but don't know about the other two.

Anyone know what's replacing them in Bath or are they surplus?

I thought those were the only five left there so don't know what the other two could be. I was under the impression that they are surplus, or more accurately support buses.

Do these rumours also include where the Darts are coming from?

Weston currently have a couple of express yourself livery darts which seem to be spare. And if rumours are to be believed that X9 is to become Decker operated, then perhaps those darts could head to Weston. Bath might even be able to spare a few. Either way they would be good for the 5.

The X39 is the express version of the 39. Granted, it may only be the Keynsham bypass but it is c.15% of the journey length and missing Keynsham saves about a fair bit of time.

until the late 90s (I think) the fastest route between the two cities was the 339. (Now 39.) It was introduced as a faster version and had stuck, and in my opinion is a more than suitable number. And in a sense it is limited stop - it just bypasses them! But as vicbury reminds us, this has been discussed numerous times.

But I thought they were being used on other routes currently (37/38, etc), so surely they'll be short if they get rid of them.

I thought 37/38 were nowadays done by darts, and a few older deckers, but I'm not in 37/38 territory so much any more.

 

[Whiteway215]

There are eleven Bath Darts still in Barbie (and in dire need of a repaint !)
42902-7/9/10/25/39/68

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

.

until the late 90s (I think) the fastest route between the two cities was the 339. (Now 39.) It was introduced as a faster version and had stuck, and in my opinion is a more than suitable number. And in a sense it is limited stop - it just bypasses them! But as vicbury reminds us, this has been discussed numerous times.

I thought 37/38 were nowadays done by darts, and a few older deckers, but I'm not in 37/38 territory so much any more.

Correct - it has been discussed many times.

Just to correct - the 339 was the main route for many years. However, the faster or express version has been around for longer than that from before dereg. In the early 1990s (and probably before), there were four an hour. Hourly X3 (from Frome as per the 267) and hourly X4 from Warminster (every two hours from Salisbury), interspersed with short X39 Bristol to Bath journeys.

The X4 was later cut to Bath (horrific timekeeping) and so it was 3 x X39 and an X3 and then the X3 was cut back to be the 267 with the Bath to Bristol becoming 4 x X39.

 

[freetoview33]

Correct - it has been discussed many times.

Just to correct - the 339 was the main route for many years. However, the faster or express version has been around for longer than that from before dereg. In the early 1990s (and probably before), there were four an hour. Hourly X3 (from Frome as per the 267) and hourly X4 from Warminster (every two hours from Salisbury), interspersed with short X39 Bristol to Bath journeys.

The X4 was later cut to Bath (horrific timekeeping) and so it was 3 x X39 and an X3 and then the X3 was cut back to be the 267 with the Bath to Bristol becoming 4 x X39.

Before you say anything! I have come up with a 2017 version of my ideas, which are better, than previous ones. Just putting the finishing touches to it and I will post it in the other thread.

It was just looking realised that there is no longer a direct bus to Portishead or Weston-super-Mare anymore as they were rerouted to form two "semi fast" services rather than an "express" and "stopping", which got me thinking if the same might happen to Bath services.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Before you say anything! I have come up with a 2017 version of my ideas, which are better, than previous ones. Just putting the finishing touches to it and I will post it in the other thread.

It was just looking realised that there is no longer a direct bus to Portishead or Weston-super-Mare anymore as they were rerouted to form two "semi fast" services rather than an "express" and "stopping", which got me thinking if the same might happen to Bath services.

Diverting via Pill isn't the same drag as diverting into Keynsham and, of course, you don't (yet) have the issue of a frequent rail service like the X39 has to contend with.

The location of Temple Meads means that the X39 is really competitive with a better frequency from centre to centre vs rail. Send it via Keynsham, it loses that advantage

 

[Private Baxter]

At least in my experience, the slowest bits of the journey are from Newbridge P&R to Bath bus station and from Brislington to Bristol bus station, not just because of traffic (which can't be helped for the most part) but mainly because of the number of stops made where passengers are carrying out local journeys (that could just as easily be done on the local services that travel along those two corridors).

That's a fair point. I would support a limited stop at the Bristol end, (or set down only), but not so much the Bath end. You're right there are many other local routes they can use in Bristol.

There are eleven Bath Darts still in Barbie (and in dire need of a repaint !)
42902-7/9/10/25/39/68

You're quite right. I somehow mis counted. That's perfect then, for painting for the 4.

Correct - it has been discussed many times.

Just to correct - the 339 was the main route for many years. However, the faster or express version has been around for longer than that from before dereg. In the early 1990s (and probably before), there were four an hour. Hourly X3 (from Frome as per the 267) and hourly X4 from Warminster (every two hours from Salisbury), interspersed with short X39 Bristol to Bath journeys.

The X4 was later cut to Bath (horrific timekeeping) and so it was 3 x X39 and an X3 and then the X3 was cut back to be the 267 with the Bath to Bristol becoming 4 x X39.

Thanks for that. My knowledge is a little hazy from that period mainly because I was still a young lad and rarely used buses!

 

[THarris123]

No.

We've been through this before. The X39 competes with the railway and the car on frequency, cost and convenience, not journey time.

If it goes limited stop on the Bath Road that leaves Brislington with only three buses per hour (38 + 178). Wessex would be rubbing their hands with delight!

Limited-stop buses are both confusing and frustrating. In my opinion the Brislington Park & Ride should call at all stops on the route to bring the mean journey times on the Bath Road down for all bus users.

I meant the section from Arnos Court to Temple Meads.

 

[THarris123]

Thanks for that. I make it thirteen darts in Barbie livery at Bath, so perhaps we'll soon see many of these turn blue??

I thought those were the only five left there so don't know what the other two could be. I was under the impression that they are surplus, or more accurately support buses.

Weston currently have a couple of express yourself livery darts which seem to be spare. And if rumours are to be believed that X9 is to become Decker operated, then perhaps those darts could head to Weston. Bath might even be able to spare a few. Either way they would be good for the 5.

until the late 90s (I think) the fastest route between the two cities was the 339. (Now 39.) It was introduced as a faster version and had stuck, and in my opinion is a more than suitable number. And in a sense it is limited stop - it just bypasses them! But as vicbury reminds us, this has been discussed numerous times.

I thought 37/38 were nowadays done by darts, and a few older deckers, but I'm not in 37/38 territory so much any more.

I have no idea what the other two are - maybe 66350/1 are moving from Cymru?

I've seen B7ls on 37/38 a few times over the last few weeks.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I have no idea what the other two are - maybe 66350/1 are moving from Cymru?

I've seen B7ls on 37/38 a few times over the last few weeks.

Alternatively, it could be 60911/4 to satisfy the need for nice tidy batches, or just any two Bristol examples. Seen 66330 and 66346 both OOS in Totterdown today

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I meant the section from Arnos Court to Temple Meads.

That's just three stops and of those, the former HTV studios stop is pretty well used

 

[Private Baxter]

I have no idea what the other two are - maybe 66350/1 are moving from Cymru?

I've seen B7ls on 37/38 a few times over the last few weeks.

Bear in mind of course this information comes from a facebook group so not always entirely accurate. If indeed they are to leave, it might just be the five left at Bath, rather than seven. Otherwise yes, GW has the more likely solution in that seven from the REGION are to leave, so may be drawn from a number of depots.

 

[vicbury]

That's just three stops and of those, the former HTV studios stop is pretty well used

Yep, and it would unnecessarily inconvenience anyone traveling from Bath / Saltford / Brislington to the Paintworks / Totterdown.

Might I remind everyone that it's not long since the X1 to Weston-super-Mare was switched from limited-stop to all stops.

I stand by what I said yesterday - both limited-stop and set-down / pick-up only are confusing to passengers and cause inconvenience which does not outweigh any small gains in journey time.

The X39 is an express service as it uses the Keynsham Bypass - although a quirk of the system is that using Google Maps to travel from Bath to Temple Meads you are often advised to take the A4 to Brislington (via Keynsham) and then transfer to the X39, presumably because the X39 spends more time in Bath and Saltford at bus stops.

 

[vicbury]

At least in my experience, the slowest bits of the journey are from Newbridge P&R to Bath bus station and from Brislington to Bristol bus station, not just because of traffic (which can't be helped for the most part) but mainly because of the number of stops made where passengers are carrying out local journeys (that could just as easily be done on the local services that travel along those two corridors).



Regarding Brislington, you can easily sort that by doing it limited stop from Arnos Vale instead (which means the number 1 can pick up some of the slack there too).

And I don't see why limited stop buses are confusing, they exist elsewhere with very little fuss. Especially here where we are pretty much talking about the end two sections of the route being limited stop and the middle being normal.

I'll be honest, I don't know what the answer is. I am just coming at this as someone who travels between Bristol and Bath by both bus and train very often and is always surprised how long it takes to actually get through the cities because of the number of people doing local journeys that could be done on local services.

Also apologies if the topic has been done to death here before!

No problem, I'm always happy to debate!

However, you may want to to reassess your assertion that a service that is both limited-stop and all-stops (depending on where you are on the route) would not be confusing.

 

[carlberry]

Correct - it has been discussed many times.

Just to correct - the 339 was the main route for many years. However, the faster or express version has been around for longer than that from before dereg. In the early 1990s (and probably before), there were four an hour. Hourly X3 (from Frome as per the 267) and hourly X4 from Warminster (every two hours from Salisbury), interspersed with short X39 Bristol to Bath journeys.

The X4 was later cut to Bath (horrific timekeeping) and so it was 3 x X39 and an X3 and then the X3 was cut back to be the 267 with the Bath to Bristol becoming 4 x X39.

There are two possible dates for the introduction of a 'fast' Bath routes The definite one is the X41 from April 1983 joint Bristol and Wilts and Dorset, subsequently renumbered X4.

However on 19th October 1980 service 809 was introduced. According to the details I've got this went via Keynsham however I don't think that's correct so I'll look it up on the timetable sometime. It was part of a MAP scheme at the time and it's introduction was enabled by some of the first wave of bus deregulation that had happened at the time which meant it was a bit harder
for people to object to new bus services.