First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

I suppose reducing the PVR from 3 to 1 is good but to be honest I just don't get it.

And when I said isolated, I meant in terms of the route number, as you have the Bristol city routes, then the 319, 376, 379, 520 and then the 902/3/4. Seems very backwards!!

If there's a perceived need but funds are tight, then what else can you do but do the best in the circumstances. On 28th Aug, I posted....

"A replacement? Tender a one car service from Centre to Westbury off peak based around schools. Use either a commercial operator such as Abus (don't think it's massively out of their area) or use a welfare vehicle. Fund by axing Eve/Sun service

It's for BCC to sort!!!"

Glad they've sorted it but it shouldn't have taken so long

As for numbering, the other posters are right that it fits in exactly in numbering rationale. It's only the fact that the 309/10, 319, 376, 379 are the reminders of the traditional BOC scheme (and they're probably not long for this world). There's also the new 901 but perhaps the most "out of sequence" might be the once daily 224!!

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And you've also got the 501/2, 505/6, 508 and 511-14 which are also BCC supported routes. It's been like that since Avon CC days, 'services numbered 500-599 are council supported routes' or whatever the red stickers used to say!
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Especially during the period when Eurotaxis had a stint at operating the evening and Sunday services.

Thanks for reminding us of the low point in tendered services with Eurotaxis. When people (rightly or wrongly) complain about First or Wessex, this should always be cited as "it can always be worse"

If you pop into Stockwood, you'd be forgiven for thinking that Avon CC is still supporting services......

 

[baza585]

Once again, I tend to agree with you though I think you're being charitable to BCC. They've not just "cut it fine" but left it to the last minute and beyond. They could and should have sorted this weeks ago.

Completely agree, they should have sorted it several weeks ago, so there was no gap between the 20 and the 520. But dealing with an all-powerful mayor like Ferguson who also appears to be a complete half-wit can't be easy, hence my charitable view!! :roll:

 

[swifty]

Thanks for reminding us of the low point in tendered services with Eurotaxis. When people (rightly or wrongly) complain about First or Wessex, this should always be cited as "it can always be worse"

If you pop into Stockwood, you'd be forgiven for thinking that Avon CC is still supporting services......

Thinking back I'd forgot they'd also had stints on the 4/5, 20, 52, 518 and 584-7, until they had that falling out with BCC and threw them in fairly soon after starting. I suppose those horrible yellow Breadvans and non operation didn't help.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Thinking back I'd forgot they'd also had stints on the 4/5, 20, 52, 518 and 584-7, until they had that falling out with BCC and threw them in fairly soon after starting. I suppose those horrible yellow Breadvans and non operation didn't help.

I remember their arrival on SGC supported services like this fantastic quality service: https://www.flickr.com/photos/77751183@N07/9401908275/

This was probably a rare photo when they bothered to operate at night. Smell the quality..... Seem to recall that First lost the 584-7 (was Merc/Beaver minis) to Eurotaxis but must only have been six months of atrocious service (no shows, unsuitable vehicles etc) before they threw them in and SGBC took over with T reg Darts
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Completely agree, they should have sorted it several weeks ago, so there was no gap between the 20 and the 520. But dealing with an all-powerful mayor like Ferguson who also appears to be a complete half-wit can't be easy, hence my charitable view!! :roll:

At least he's not as powerful as Boris, or Wrightbus would be busy coming up with a 21st century version of the FLF....to solve a problem that no-one knew existed

 

[swifty]

I remember their arrival on SGC supported services like this fantastic quality service: https://www.flickr.com/photos/77751183@N07/9401908275/

This was probably a rare photo when they bothered to operate at night. Smell the quality..... Seem to recall that First lost the 584-7 (was Merc/Beaver minis) to Eurotaxis but must only have been six months of atrocious service (no shows, unsuitable vehicles etc) before they threw them in and SGBC took over with T reg Darts
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At least he's not as powerful as Boris, or Wrightbus would be busy coming up with a 21st century version of the FLF....to solve a problem that no-one knew existed

It was these lovely Mercs that I remembered being used :roll:


Eurotaxis-CN53ATO-Bristol-031205 by Michael Wadman, on Flickr

Ironically it was Eurotaxis third attempt on the 585-7 IIRC. I know the Darts were hurriedly purchased by SGBC but I always thought they were a bit overkill for the routes to be honest, although they did prove useful inter-working with school services in Kingswood.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It was these lovely Mercs that I remembered being used :roll:


Eurotaxis-CN53ATO-Bristol-031205 by Michael Wadman, on Flickr

Ironically it was Eurotaxis third attempt on the 585-7 IIRC. I know the Darts were hurriedly purchased by SGBC but I always thought they were a bit overkill for the routes to be honest, although they did prove useful inter-working with school services in Kingswood.

That was one of their more modern offerings!!

The Darts were ok and I think passed to Rotala though some quickly found themselves at Kirkby dealer in Anston; I was very surprised to see some there alongside the former Cardiff Excels that SGBC also bought around the same time (not a good purchase).

Was having a check through some older photos the other night (2005-7) - seems quaint to see First minibuses knocking around. As well as the last Beavers, there were a couple of Varios (S-RWP) knocking around. Apart from 53401 doing a turn on the 1 (rather than 619), when did First stop using minis in Bristol.

 

[THarris123]

One thing I've recently noticed is that, even though Bath doesn't control Wells any more, Wells still seem to rely on Bath whenever one of their vehicles breaks down. With 66106 away (will this come back does any one know?), 66356 is in its place, whilst X reg B10 62193 (or whatever its number is) is filling in for something else I'm not sure what. I thought Bath were short, maybe Weston are shorter??

It's interesting you said this yesterday.

41333 is now in operation in Wells (come from Weston after the reduction in vehicles). So it's not just Bath they get the vehicles from. Nice to see something from Weston for a change.

See my post on First Wells Depot thread for what 62193 replaced - it covered 69439 whilst it was out of service - today it was back on the road again. I think it also partially replaced 66107 whilst that was out of service for a couple of days (i think this is also now back working again).

66100 appears to be the next culprit - it was sitting in the depot waiting for maintenance both yesterday and today. I think though 62193 has gone back to Bath now.

I can't work out what 66356 is covering - it is either 66106, or more likely 69445. It always appears to be on the 173.

I wonder what 41333 has replaced. It's not 46603 - this was on the 15.55 Frome bus this afternoon - fully loaded. I'm surprised they don't put on an extra bus to Shepton for schools. It would make sense, considering that there were about 10 people standing.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's interesting you said this yesterday.

41333 is now in operation in Wells (come from Weston after the reduction in vehicles). So it's not just Bath they get the vehicles from. Nice to see something from Weston for a change.

See my post on First Wells Depot thread for what 62193 replaced - it covered 69439 whilst it was out of service - today it was back on the road again. I think it also partially replaced 66107 whilst that was out of service for a couple of days (i think this is also now back working again).

66100 appears to be the next culprit - it was sitting in the depot waiting for maintenance both yesterday and today. I think though 62193 has gone back to Bath now.

I can't work out what 66356 is covering - it is either 66106, or more likely 69445. It always appears to be on the 173.

I wonder what 41333 has replaced. It's not 46603 - this was on the 15.55 Frome bus this afternoon - fully loaded. I'm surprised they don't put on an extra bus to Shepton for schools. It would make sense, considering that there were about 10 people standing.

Depends if they get paid to put an extra one on?

I wondered where the ex WM Marshalls might go? They looked in better nick than the Welsh ones. Suspect it's a permanent rather than a loan? Displace 41144?

 

[THarris123]

Depends if they get paid to put an extra one on?

I wondered where the ex WM Marshalls might go? They looked in better nick than the Welsh ones. Suspect it's a permanent rather than a loan? Displace 41144?

See that's what I was thinking. Has 41144 actually gone? I saw it on Wednesday, but not since then. Not sure at all.

Those Marshalls look incredibly better than any others. 41333 looks quite nice. It would be nice to think it will be permanently in Wells, but it will fail DDA compliance, so will have to go by end of next year. They will be quite nice to replace 41144 and 46603. I think we could end up with other darts eventually though (maybe the 02 Marshalls?). I can't see 43849 staying around forever (even though it seems to be coping really well).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

See that's what I was thinking. Has 41144 actually gone? I saw it on Wednesday, but not since then. Not sure at all.

Those Marshalls look incredibly better than any others. 41333 looks quite nice. It would be nice to think it will be permanently in Wells, but it will fail DDA compliance, so will have to go by end of next year. They will be quite nice to replace 41144 and 46603. I think we could end up with other darts eventually though (maybe the 02 Marshalls?). I can't see 43849 staying around forever (even though it seems to be coping really well).

It may well only be there for a year. After all, they got to go somewhere or be withdrawn now and I wouldn't be surprised to see them or ALXs go there as a stop gap. After all, the Cymru Marshalls are nearly purged after only 6 months - isn't there only one 02 Marshall?

I don't know what they'll put on the 161 after 31/12/15 but wonder if it's Solos? After all, there's no current Darts of the right age (2000-2) other than that one Marshall unless they send something else in?

 

[Private Baxter]

It's interesting you said this yesterday.

41333 is now in operation in Wells (come from Weston after the reduction in vehicles). So it's not just Bath they get the vehicles from. Nice to see something from Weston for a change.

See my post on First Wells Depot thread for what 62193 replaced - it covered 69439 whilst it was out of service - today it was back on the road again. I think it also partially replaced 66107 whilst that was out of service for a couple of days (i think this is also now back working again).

66100 appears to be the next culprit - it was sitting in the depot waiting for maintenance both yesterday and today. I think though 62193 has gone back to Bath now.

I can't work out what 66356 is covering - it is either 66106, or more likely 69445. It always appears to be on the 173.

I wonder what 41333 has replaced. It's not 46603 - this was on the 15.55 Frome bus this afternoon - fully loaded. I'm surprised they don't put on an extra bus to Shepton for schools. It would make sense, considering that there were about 10 people standing.

Oh no! Not another marshall in Wells!! Maybe it has replaced the other marshall, in which case not so bad. Meanwhile good to read that the oldest bus is still proving its worth!

66356 (and befor that 66355, which btw has just been painted) is filling in for 66106, either until it comes back or a permanent replacement can be found. That's all I know, not sure about the others. The whereabouts of 69445 is still a mystery.

Will check out the new Wells thread shortly!

 

[ValleyLines142]

Have you read the article?

The service is now less than half the length (Centre to Westbury) and half the frequency. Vehicle requirement goes from 3 to 1. Also, First get paid to do it, getting revenue they were destined to lose anyway, and aren't continuing to lose money on it. They've drawn a line in the sand; I think it's BCC who haven't come out of it well.

In what way is it isolated?

Why is it ridiculous?

The 20 was losing money. First gave appropriate notice they would stopped running it. It is then up to BCC to decide whether they wish to support a replacement service because of social needs. Eventually (very late in the day) they got their act together and decided that they wanted/could afford a partial replacement service, spoke to a number of potential operators and chose First, who are presumably happy to operate the 520 for the subsidy offered.

That is exactly how the deregulated environment is meant to work outside London. You or I (and maybe operators) might disagree with this environment, but only HMG can change it and I see no prospect of any change under this Government at least.

First come out of it having behaved correctly IMHO; BCC cut it fine but got there in the end.

I don't know really! It all seems like a waste of time withdrawing it.

Cardiff Bus did this with their 12 service!

 

[swifty]

I don't know really! It all seems like a waste of time withdrawing it.

Cardiff Bus did this with their 12 service!

Why? The only waste of time was the 6 weeks the council spent doing nothing about replacing it!

As we've said the 20 was loosing money and First went about the right way of cancelling the service. It was then upto the council to sort a replacement service, and they only seemed to pull their finger out after the protest on Saturday.

They've obviously found that by reallocating funds with First it'll be the easiest way of reinstating the service. If another operator had of taken it on it'll more than likely have still been the 520 with one bus running between Lewins Mead and Westbury and starting in mid September.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Why? The only waste of time was the 6 weeks the council spent doing nothing about replacing it!

As we've said the 20 was loosing money and First went about the right way of cancelling the service. It was then upto the council to sort a replacement service, and they only seemed to pull their finger out after the protest on Saturday.

They've obviously found that by reallocating funds with First it'll be the easiest way of reinstating the service. If another operator had of taken it on it'll more than likely have still been the 520 with one bus running between Lewins Mead and Westbury and starting in mid September.

I suppose. I don't know, I'm just a bit 'meh' today and really indecisive!

 

[freetoview33]

 

[baza585]

I wonder what 41333 has replaced. It's not 46603 - this was on the 15.55 Frome bus this afternoon - fully loaded. I'm surprised they don't put on an extra bus to Shepton for schools. It would make sense, considering that there were about 10 people standing.

Having more than 10 people standing on a schools out peak time service is quite normal in most cities; why should Wells be any different!!

I very much doubt SCC or First would be willing to stump up for another peak time bus and driver. If folk were being left behind it would be different, but even on a step Dart something like 20+ standees can be accommodated safely. The days of everyone getting a seat are long gone (if they ever existed).

 

[swifty]

42511/22 - only a mere 17 years service in Southampton. Guess they've been displaced by new Streetlites. A temporary measure for a year or so?

A few more are now with BoS from FHD namely 42117/21/23/24/27 as well as the two already there. So 7 Darts in could potentially see off 41156/42634 and a few of the remaining East Lancs Sprytes?

 

[freetoview33]

The 584/5/6/7 had a fair few operators! First/Eurotaxis,SGBC,Wessex

 

[South Westerly]

A few more are now with BoS from FHD namely 42117/21/23/24/27 as well as the two already there. So 7 Darts in could potentially see off 41156/42634 and a few of the remaining East Lancs Sprytes?

There are 6 in total. 4 were destined for BoS, the other two further West. the 4 were to replace 41156 42634(already withdrawn) and the S reg Spryte, and provide a paint float.
Since then, emergency tenders have been won at Taunton requiring a mini coach, coach, and at least one bus. Coach and minic coach expected to be transferred up from Kernow, and a B10BLE on the way down from Aberdeen. The B10BLE is potentially the first of a big batch.
In addition, the P reg Olympian had been withdrawn and replaced by a further Trident, transferred up from Plymouth.
Further West the four Truro Park and Ride Scanias on hire from Reading have been purchased, along with another two.

 

[ryson357]

There are 6 in total. 4 were destined for BoS, the other two further West. the 4 were to replace 41156 42634(already withdrawn) and the S reg Spryte, and provide a paint float.
Since then, emergency tenders have been won at Taunton requiring a mini coach, coach, and at least one bus. Coach and minic coach expected to be transferred up from Kernow, and a B10BLE on the way down from Aberdeen. The B10BLE is potentially the first of a big batch.
In addition, the P reg Olympian had been withdrawn and replaced by a further Trident, transferred up from Plymouth.
Further West the four Truro Park and Ride Scanias on hire from Reading have been purchased, along with another two.

What emergency tenders?

 

[South Westerly]

What emergency tenders?

Quantock Motor Services's

 

[CD]

See that's what I was thinking. Has 41144 actually gone? I saw it on Wednesday, but not since then. Not sure at all.

Those Marshalls look incredibly better than any others. 41333 looks quite nice. It would be nice to think it will be permanently in Wells, but it will fail DDA compliance, so will have to go by end of next year. They will be quite nice to replace 41144 and 46603. I think we could end up with other darts eventually though (maybe the 02 Marshalls?). I can't see 43849 staying around forever (even though it seems to be coping really well).

41144 is on X75 today.
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Of the ex FHD Darts, 42521 is on 26. 42522 on 54. 52511 and another are on 29.
42527 is in Bridgwater depot. Also long withdrawn 42834 has been removed from Bridgwater today by a wrecker. Interestingly all 4 Sprytes 42825/32/33/35 are on Taunton depot today rather than being in service.

 

[THarris123]

I saw X75 with 41144 today - not particularly good that.

Wells seem to have the numbers built up again back to 22 - meaning there's 2 spare buses again (like there should be!) 41333 seems to be acting as a spare whilst 69445 is away.

In terms of Taunton - 42526 was on a 29 this morning - not a bad machine that, much better than the ELC stuff (i.e. 42832, etc.). It even overtook a car on the main Taunton road, which was going about 45ish! 42511 was on the 29 this afternoon - that doesn't look so good.

I caught the 54 today. It was 33381 on there. What a machine that is - lovely ride and really nice bus. I don't really know whether deckers should be on that service - what are the numbers like at peak Mon-Fri? There was about 5 people on there today.

I would like to see a few more of the 551** range in Taunton. I think they would be good on the 54 shorts and 21 shorts eventually (when they get rid of all the crap!).

I see in Yeovil - there's an 03 reg Solo (hooray! something new!) and a B6 (48273). 42521 and 42522 are now in Yeovil as well.

I caught the 377 back into Wells then - it was 62193. The ride on that it terrible - perfect for stuff like the 5 in Bath (quite short journeys), but when you're sat on it for 1.5 hours, it is very painful on your rear!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Quantock Motor Services's

What's happened with QMS? Ceased trading? And what have BoS picked up in terms of services?

How much has the Taunton PVR increased in the last year?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I saw X75 with 41144 today - not particularly good that.

Wells seem to have the numbers built up again back to 22 - meaning there's 2 spare buses again (like there should be!) 41333 seems to be acting as a spare whilst 69445 is away.

In terms of Taunton - 42526 was on a 29 this morning - not a bad machine that, much better than the ELC stuff (i.e. 42832, etc.). It even overtook a car on the main Taunton road, which was going about 45ish! 42511 was on the 29 this afternoon - that doesn't look so good.

I caught the 54 today. It was 33381 on there. What a machine that is - lovely ride and really nice bus. I don't really know whether deckers should be on that service - what are the numbers like at peak Mon-Fri? There was about 5 people on there today.

I would like to see a few more of the 551** range in Taunton. I think they would be good on the 54 shorts and 21 shorts eventually (when they get rid of all the crap!).

I see in Yeovil - there's an 03 reg Solo (hooray! something new!) and a B6 (48273). 42521 and 42522 are now in Yeovil as well.

I caught the 377 back into Wells then - it was 62193. The ride on that it terrible - perfect for stuff like the 5 in Bath (quite short journeys), but when you're sat on it for 1.5 hours, it is very painful on your rear!

There's two 03 Solos in Yeovil; they're ex BR ones. The B6 is probably a loan from Weymouth.

You'll not see Streetlite WFs on those competing shorts unless they're really strapped for vehicles.

 

[South Westerly]

What's happened with QMS? Ceased trading? And what have BoS picked up in terms of services?

How much has the Taunton PVR increased in the last year?
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There's two 03 Solos in Yeovil; they're ex BR ones. The B6 is probably a loan from Weymouth.

You'll not see Streetlite WFs on those competing shorts unless they're really strapped for vehicles.

10 and two schools.

 

[freetoview33]

There is still quite a lot to do with BoS but we all knew it would take time and I think they are making slow but steady progress!

 

[DaveHarries]

What's happened with QMS? Ceased trading?

Their website has had a recent makeover which may give a clue:
http://quantockmotorservices.co.uk/

As for Porlock, a service between Bridgwater, Minehead and Porlock is soon to arrive in the guise of Webberbus. May well replace the 10, 24 and 106 albeit with some interworking. Looks as if breaks are taken at Minehead when heading towards Taunton which makes the journey rather long however.
http://www.webberbus.com/index.php/timetables/16-24-8thsept14/

Dave

 

[freetoview33]

On traveline it shows the 101/106 being merged into just a 106 service.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

10 and two schools.

Not taken on the 25A? So have QH ceased or is it a contract termination by SCC?

The PVR for BoS must be 17 more than last year!!! Thanks for the info on B10BLEs though if they're the same batch as 62193/4 at Bath, they'll not be comfortable!! Still, they're excellent vehicles and whilst the competition is draining, it would be good to see some real inroads into the fleet profile.

Other than that, think Alex C is doing a fine job

 

[South Westerly]

Not taken on the 25A? So have QH ceased or is it a contract termination by SCC?

The PVR for BoS must be 17 more than last year!!! Thanks for the info on B10BLEs though if they're the same batch as 62193/4 at Bath, they'll not be comfortable!! Still, they're excellent vehicles and whilst the competition is draining, it would be good to see some real inroads into the fleet profile.

Other than that, think Alex C is doing a fine job

The 25a is the part of the service dropped by First due to the route being unviable, but then taken on by Quantock - it was de registered by Quantock about a month ago, so will just wither. BoS run hourly anyway, it was just giving a half hour frequency on that part of the route.

QMS have given up I believe with emergency tenders being sought this Thursday Friday.

Y reg B10BLE from Aberdeen, easily convertible to DDA apparently