First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[LeylandLynx]

When you say "apparently", would be good if members can provide some sources?

Obviously, the MMCs are moving from Cymru (despite some having only just painted) but some clarity on the 73 fleet/SGL etc would be helpful. TBH, I'm surprised that SGL is being perpetuated. If I'm honest, I'd sooner see the MMCs head to Wells and release some of the e400s out.

From First Bus West of England Enthusiast Facebook group



70 and 73 timetables are now on travelinesw

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

From First Bus West of England Enthusiast Facebook group

View attachment 139909

70 and 73 timetables are now on travelinesw

I was thinking more of the 73 fleet being repainted into SG Lynx colours rather than the 73 heading to Hengrove (HG)

Of course, the 73 fleet will need to be retained at Lawrence Hill (LH) for gas refuelling but was wondering if they would appear in the Urban 2 with the lilac front as route specific/corridor specific liveries such as Discover seems to be less in favour

 

[LeylandLynx]

I was thinking more of the 73 fleet being repainted into SG Lynx colours rather than the 73 heading to Hengrove (HG)

Of course, the 73 fleet will need to be retained at Lawrence Hill (LH) for gas refuelling but was wondering if they would appear in the Urban 2 with the lilac front as route specific/corridor specific liveries such as Discover seems to be less in favour

We can only speculate for now, really, due to a lack of information. The new Y2 service seems to be a natural home for them, but what livery they will appear in remains a mystery (but SGL seems most likely for at least some of them).

 

[stait.john]

As far as I know the Lynx brand is effectively dead. I would imagine the citylines|73 branding will be removed initially before repainting.

70/73 will be Hengrove with B9s.

 

[LeylandLynx]

70/73 will be Hengrove with B9s.

Now that's a downgrade.

 

[Callum15632]

As far as I know the Lynx brand is effectively dead. I would imagine the citylines|73 branding will be removed initially before repainting.

70/73 will be Hengrove with B9s.

Will there be transfers to Hengrove from Lawrence Hill for the 70/73 then or will they be part of citylines blue?

Now that's a downgrade.

Not for the 70 it isn't. The 70 is already using B9s.

 

[LeylandLynx]

Not for the 70 it isn't. The 70 is already using B9s.

I was just thinking how the 70 used to be B9s over a decade ago and then went to Streetdecks in 2015, and is now back to B9s again in 2023, ironic.

I don't think there are enough citylines blue B9s to go around, there'll have to be transfers. The MMC arrivals will free them up I guess. But launching 2 'new' cross city routes with Barbie era buses is not a good look.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I was just thinking how the 70 used to be B9s over a decade ago and then went to Streetdecks in 2015, and is now back to B9s again in 2023, ironic.

I don't think there are enough citylines blue B9s to go around, there'll have to be transfers. The MMC arrivals will free them up I guess. But launching 2 'new' cross city routes with Barbie era buses is not a good look.

I don't think the 70 was allocated B9s though it would have seen them occasionally. It was B7RLEs until the end of 2014, and then think it had a spell of most things for few months with ex Glasgow Tridents and various Geminis until the Streetdecks arrived.

 

[LeylandLynx]

I don't think the 70 was allocated B9s though it would have seen them occasionally. It was B7RLEs until the end of 2014, and then think it had a spell of most things for few months with ex Glasgow Tridents and various Geminis until the Streetdecks arrived.

I remember back when the 70 used to be operated by Northern Counties Palatine 1 Volvo Olympians, but I can recall B9s on the 70 at least as far back as 2010, but I don't remember if it was fully operated by them or not

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I remember back when the 70 used to be operated by Northern Counties Palatine 1 Volvo Olympians, but I can recall B9s on the 70 at least as far back as 2010, but I don't remember if it was fully operated by them or not

It did have the K-LAE Olympians but gained Eclipses 69449-58 when they were deployed on the 8/9 and found to be too long. They moved to the 70 up until the end of 2014 until they were swapped with e400s from Leicester. The 70/71 would (along with the 50/51) get a mix of ex Glasgow Tridents and the e400s until the arrival of the Streetdecks.

Across that time, Geminis could and did appear but were never officially allocated. The allocation of Eclipses on the 70 was a regular complaint of 2/3 posters on this forum at the time.

 

[LeylandLynx]

Well, in any case, I think the 73 should get the BD12 plate Gemini 2 B9s at least (36228-34). There are 7 in Bristol, I estimate that the new 73 will have a pvr of 8 so it needs an additional one.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well, in any case, I think the 73 should get the BD12 plate Gemini 2 B9s at least (36228-34). There are 7 in Bristol, I estimate that the new 73 will have a pvr of 8 so it needs an additional one.

Those are just standard B9s as with the rest of the fleet; they'll appear anywhere along with those from York, native examples, etc

 

[LeylandLynx]

Those are just standard B9s as with the rest of the fleet; they'll appear anywhere along with those from York, native examples, etc

True, but at least they don't have the dated interiors that the Bristol Gemini 1s do and look slightly more modern, I'd take them as a compromise over losing the gas buses. If they're hyping up these new cross-city routes they should at least put a bit more effort into them than bog-standard unbranded B9s.

 

[Callum15632]

True, but at least they don't have the dated interiors that the Bristol Gemini 1s do and look slightly more modern, I'd take them as a compromise over losing the gas buses. If they're hyping up these new cross-city routes they should at least put a bit more effort into them than bog-standard unbranded B9s.

How about 37359/37387/37682/37685?

 

[Markk1990]

True, but at least they don't have the dated interiors that the Bristol Gemini 1s do and look slightly more modern, I'd take them as a compromise over losing the gas buses. If they're hyping up these new cross-city routes they should at least put a bit more effort into them than bog-standard unbranded B9s.

Whilst I don’t believe they are visually too different to the other fleet as is so they won’t really matter to the average punter, I do believe there is some marketing opportunity to shout about the new cross-city routes - unless their hand was forced by WECA so they aren’t to keen on pushing the combined services.

Also, branding and liveries don’t appear to be the flavour of the year so I don’t we’ll see anything different, just sadly a downgrade to 73 users.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Whilst I don’t believe they are visually too different to the other fleet as is so they won’t really matter to the average punter, I do believe there is some marketing opportunity to shout about the new cross-city routes - unless their hand was forced by WECA so they aren’t to keen on pushing the combined services.

Also, branding and liveries don’t appear to be the flavour of the year so I don’t we’ll see anything different, just sadly a downgrade to 73 users.

Correct - the average punter won't notice any difference between a 2008 and a 2012 version - still got grey eLeather inside even if the laminates are different. In fact, at least the native B9s had a refurb in 2013/4 - the 2012 ones desperate need a retrim

As for promotion in Bristol (and First West of England generally), the image of the fleet has taken a back seat over digital promotion.

 

[LeylandLynx]

Whilst I don’t believe they are visually too different to the other fleet as is so they won’t really matter to the average punter, I do believe there is some marketing opportunity to shout about the new cross-city routes - unless their hand was forced by WECA so they aren’t to keen on pushing the combined services.

Also, branding and liveries don’t appear to be the flavour of the year so I don’t we’ll see anything different, just sadly a downgrade to 73 users.

The patrons will definitely notice the downgrade in vehicles on the 73, though. And the new 73 is an absolute monster of a route, with more than 70 stops. First were hyping up the "new" routes, but it could just be a cynical attempt to disguise smashing 4 routes together into 2 as an improvement in order to cut pvr on the said 4 routes.

 

[Jj79]

I think you'll find the 6 is the commercial service. As yet, there has been no indication made that there will be a replacement service to North Worle, Uphill, Hutton or Bleadon, but of course all the elected members are talking up Westlink yet again.

Everytime I have tried to use Westlink around the area, in Weston or Bristol (in areas covered on the day or next day), I always get a message to say no buses available. I'm not sure if I'm just unlucky or whether it's for some other reason. I'm not sure what other people's experiences have been like; it would be interesting to know.

 

[-Colly405-]

Everytime I have tried to use Westlink around the area, in Weston or Bristol (in areas covered on the day or next day), I always get a message to say no buses available. I'm not sure if I'm just unlucky or whether it's for some other reason. I'm not sure what other people's experiences have been like; it would be interesting to know.

I've tried to use it (only) four times and on each occasion it has been absolutely fine. This is in the FTZ (Bristol North Fringe) so may be different to the other areas.

FTZ - future transport zone

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Everytime I have tried to use Westlink around the area, in Weston or Bristol (in areas covered on the day or next day), I always get a message to say no buses available. I'm not sure if I'm just unlucky or whether it's for some other reason. I'm not sure what other people's experiences have been like; it would be interesting to know.

I’ve got similar messages on about a quarter to a third of the times I’ve tried to get a ride. It left me stranded at Chew Valley Lake once when I was attempting to get to Nailsea and I ended up walking to Pensford (about an hour and a half) to get a 172/376 back to Bristol. Luckily it was nice weather for a ramble! Another failed attempt was to get from Cleeve to Nailsea, although I managed that by X1 and X8; I was lucky in making the connection at Backwell because the X8 was late - otherwise it would have been a walk from Backwell to Nailsea. Other failed attempts have included from Chipping Sodbury to Winterbourne (when a Y6 was cancelled) - ended up walking to Yate and catching a 525 to Emersons Green to connect into a m3.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The patrons will definitely notice the downgrade in vehicles on the 73, though. And the new 73 is an absolute monster of a route, with more than 70 stops. First were hyping up the "new" routes, but it could just be a cynical attempt to disguise smashing 4 routes together into 2 as an improvement in order to cut pvr on the said 4 routes.

I don't know if it is WECA (West of England Combined Auth) or First who are behind the linking of the services together. Certainly, given the move to create the Stagecoach 9, it seems more likely the former. I'm not certain that the PVR is going to be much changed....they'll need more recovery time to keep to schedule

The patrons will notice the downgrade on the 73 but that would be the same if they were 2008, or 2012 B9s (as you were suggesting). Of course, if the gas buses are instead to go on the Yate routes, then the patrons on the Y6 will notice an upgrade!

Perhaps another observation is that whilst Weston and Wells are in the running for electrification, and that Weston did get a raft of new Streetdecks last year, the level of fleet replacement is perhaps a little concerning. Unless people know different (and you may well), then not certain that any new fleet is planned and, Streetdecks aside, new fleet has been put to one side since the gas buses arrival just before Covid struck. That very healthy intake did help wipe out the B7TLs (mostly to Essex and Cornwall) but the 57/58 B9s are getting on now.

 

[LeylandLynx]

I don't know if it is WECA (West of England Combined Auth) or First who are behind the linking of the services together. Certainly, given the move to create the Stagecoach 9, it seems more likely the former. I'm not certain that the PVR is going to be much changed....they'll need more recovery time to keep to schedule

The patrons will notice the downgrade on the 73 but that would be the same if they were 2008, or 2012 B9s (as you were suggesting). Of course, if the gas buses are instead to go on the Yate routes, then the patrons on the Y6 will notice an upgrade!

Two new cross-city bus routes planned for Bristol

Bristol is to get two new cross-city bus services as part of a package of changes from First West of England.

news-wew.firstbus.co.uk

"The proposed changes are part of a bi-annual review of routes by First Bus, and will come into force on Sunday 3rd September. First Bus has consulted on the new routes with local authorities, including the West of England Combined Authority, ahead of them coming into effect in September."

According to the article, it seems that it was First who are behind it.

I definitely think the 2012 B9s should get a refurb. I am in favour of refurbishing older vehicles until at least new vehicles arrive. Think I saw a refurbished B9 Gemini 2 on a Facebook group, it actually looked almost new.

 

[Citistar]

According to the article, it seems that it was First who are behind it.

There is pressure being put upon First to operate more cross city services in Bristol, because that is a part of the Combined Authority's bus policy document. Gluing two pairs of the less frequent b-grade services together shows a token willingness to work towards the goal whilst not damaging the more frequent services. It also probably has some operational benefits as a 92/73 trip out and back is probably a full half shift for a driver with all staff changes taking place at Hengrove.

 

[LeylandLynx]

There is pressure being put upon First to operate more cross city services in Bristol, because that is a part of the Combined Authority's bus policy document. Gluing two pairs of the less frequent b-grade services together shows a token willingness to work towards the goal whilst not damaging the more frequent services. It also probably has some operational benefits as a 92/73 trip out and back is probably a full half shift for a driver with all staff changes taking place at Hengrove.

Have the 90 and 70 been relegated to b-grade services now? I've not been in Bristol for a few years.

 

[Citistar]

Have the 90 and 70 been relegated to b-grade services now? I've not been in Bristol for a few years.

Well i wouldn't rate them as premier league in terms of frequency in the city. 90 feels like it has been continually nibbled away at since the 88/89 days and now serves a much smaller area around Knowle. Neither First nor the councils seem to have any ideas in how to reinvigorate services in the area. Likewise, the 70 has become one of the poorer relatives of the UWE services since it's "frequent intervals" heyday of 20-25 years ago.

 

[LeylandLynx]

Well i wouldn't rate them as premier league in terms of frequency in the city. 90 feels like it has been continually nibbled away at since the 88/89 days and now serves a much smaller area around Knowle. Neither First nor the councils seem to have any ideas in how to reinvigorate services in the area. Likewise, the 70 has become one of the poorer relatives of the UWE services since it's "frequent intervals" heyday of 20-25 years ago.

It just seems quite recently that First invested new vehicles for the 70, 90 and 73. The 92 really was the only one that had been neglected.

 

[stait.john]

37685 has been moved from York to Hunslet Park Depot in Leeds, slightly nearer to Bristol!

74 will remain a Hengrove route in September.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well i wouldn't rate them as premier league in terms of frequency in the city. 90 feels like it has been continually nibbled away at since the 88/89 days and now serves a much smaller area around Knowle. Neither First nor the councils seem to have any ideas in how to reinvigorate services in the area. Likewise, the 70 has become one of the poorer relatives of the UWE services since it's "frequent intervals" heyday of 20-25 years ago.

It just seems quite recently that First invested new vehicles for the 70, 90 and 73. The 92 really was the only one that had been neglected.

Obviously, the 70 gained the nearly new Eclipses (59 plate) in 2010/1, and then the first batch of Streetdecks in 2015. I'm not so certain that the 70 is quite as bad as suggested when taken with the 74, though it's hard to keep tabs on the changes with the 71 appearing etc, and whether there's been any changes/knock ons associated with metrobus.

However, the issue south of the river has been noticeable for several years with continual reductions to services. Whilst the 90 did get new buses, and was the scene of a shortlived bus war with Wessex (and the drafting in of additional B7TLs to supplement the new Streetdecks in 2016), the whole pattern of services in the south part of the city is ailing. Is that partly because of developments at Hengrove Park or Hartcliffe meaning that fewer journeys are required? Impact of the m1? Certainly when I drive through Whitchurch, it feels like a piece of 70's suburbia where people bought off plan, had kids and is now dominated by pensioners with Nissan Jukes and Honda Jazzs rather than a vibrant bus market though First's own cuts have assisted that at various times.

I agree - I don't think First or the councils have any idea how to respond to the challenges of reinvigorating services in the south of Bristol

 

[Citistar]

However, the issue south of the river has been noticeable for several years with continual reductions to services. Whilst the 90 did get new buses, and was the scene of a shortlived bus war with Wessex (and the drafting in of additional B7TLs to supplement the new Streetdecks in 2016), the whole pattern of services in the south part of the city is ailing. Is that partly because of developments at Hengrove Park or Hartcliffe meaning that fewer journeys are required? Impact of the m1? Certainly when I drive through Whitchurch, it feels like a piece of 70's suburbia where people bought off plan, had kids and is now dominated by pensioners with Nissan Jukes and Honda Jazzs rather than a vibrant bus market though First's own cuts have assisted that at various times.

The problem is that areas like Imperial Park have never been properly served. They even have the nerve to announce the bottom of Novers as "for Imperial Park" when in reality it's a considerable walk across several lanes of highway with no shelter (over 1km to the door of B&M or The Range). No surprise that Imperial Park is a thriving mecca for private transport. It is truly scary how much housing is being placed at there now with absolutely no public transport provision to speak of. Avon Meads and Brislington Tesco are similarly problematic in never having been properly served and having been built without usable infrastructure. Apparently nothing is ever learned from the failings of these developments by Bristol City Coucil.

I think areas like Hengrove, Windways and Stockwood are becoming less attractive to bus passengers because they're not connected with the places that matter to them the most. Windways in particular is appalling, car choked bus territory for the best part of a decade before First pulled out, then Bristol decided to waste huge sums with the very weak 516 service which offered so little of any relevance to local residents. It's pretty obvious when every driveway has two lumbering 15 year old 4x4s and a company van on it, plus another hatchback parked in the way on the road that you're not in prime bus territory.

 

[LeylandLynx]

Obviously, the 70 gained the nearly new Eclipses (59 plate) in 2010/1, and then the first batch of Streetdecks in 2015. I'm not so certain that the 70 is quite as bad as suggested when taken with the 74, though it's hard to keep tabs on the changes with the 71 appearing etc, and whether there's been any changes/knock ons associated with metrobus.

However, the issue south of the river has been noticeable for several years with continual reductions to services. Whilst the 90 did get new buses, and was the scene of a shortlived bus war with Wessex (and the drafting in of additional B7TLs to supplement the new Streetdecks in 2016), the whole pattern of services in the south part of the city is ailing. Is that partly because of developments at Hengrove Park or Hartcliffe meaning that fewer journeys are required? Impact of the m1? Certainly when I drive through Whitchurch, it feels like a piece of 70's suburbia where people bought off plan, had kids and is now dominated by pensioners with Nissan Jukes and Honda Jazzs rather than a vibrant bus market though First's own cuts have assisted that at various times.

I agree - I don't think First or the councils have any idea how to respond to the challenges of reinvigorating services in the south of Bristol

I'm actually a former resident of Whitchurch and lived there just short of 2 decades. For many years it suffered from a very poor standard of service, poor reliability and a lack of adequate capacity during peak times. (I believe I read somewhere that it was the 3rd most deprived area in Bristol in general.)

But what I also noticed is that car ownership seemed to go through the roof, and Whitchurch basically was turned into a giant car park. About 15 years ago, the buses stopped serving Belland Drive on journeys into town but First also started making changes to the 20 service, altering the route and cutting the number of journeys to the northern section. They also began reducing the frequency of the 51. The same ancient, single-decker buses were used until as late as 2015.

I believe things started to take a turn for the worst when First introduced the 50/51, which was frequently referred to as the Cinderella route. A very controversial change was cutting the 51 from Windways and Tanorth Road meaning residents no longer had access to Broad Walk. The 20 route was also gone, and was only partially covered by the 50. Frequencies were reduced. Vehicles often were old and in poor condition (the ex-Glasgow Tridents were the worst offenders).

And then disaster struck. First cut the 51 altogether, and the 50 stopped even going into the city centre. First also never listened to the residents of Whitchurch, who complained about a poor standard of service and cuts.